What would you do?

Widgeon said:
Ok, so it sounds like perhaps she is elderly and not up to the physical work of doing the maintenance herself? That in itself is fine but it sounds like she's not really being straight with you - this arrangement only works if everyone is upfront and happy about how they benefit from it (i.e. you get cheap rent and do all the maintenance, she gets someone who does all the work for her).

The fact that she's making out that you SHOULD do all the maintenance because somehow her ancient infrastructure is your fault, would both stress me out and pee me off. And if she really is that close to death's door I would not be investing large amounts of cash into her fencing and shelters. If she did die you'd probably be evicted and lose all of it. Personally I'd rather pay more and know exactly where both parties stood.

I know £85 per month adds up to almost a grand a year, but I also know from experience that keeping fences and buildings maintained properly ends up costing thousands, so I don't think having the entire financial burden falling on you as a livery is fair. Yes, you are getting very cheap livery, but is it actually worth the stress to you. I find that it is to me, but I still hate discovering that more of the fence has collapsed on a dark rainy Friday night, it needs fixing right now so the horses don't escape, and there is no one except me and a post knocker to do it.
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Exactly this.
I also think £85 per month isn't as bad as suddenly needing to fix something that's falling to bits and needing to find several hundred up front instead. It's pros and cons. I don't mind usual repairs and maintenance, I've been doing stuff that we both benefit from out of my own pocket for years. For example, if I left, the new residents would have up together shelters rather than things falling down and secure fence posts that aren't leaning or floating etc. It's not things I can take with me. I do all the usual land maintenance, harrowing, reseeding etc. I don't mind all of that but I just don't agree with forking out for brand new 38 meter long post and rail fencing in an area I don't use at solely my expense.
 
Mrs Jingle said:
Your rent sounds extremely reasonable no matter the condition of fencing. If you calculate roughly the cost of post and rail for 35 metres, materials would be roughly €920 over here. Divide that by the number of months you have been there it still works out at only approximately £13 sterling per month. So still extremely cheap if you have someone handy who would help with installation, pretty straightforward just requires a bit of huffing and puffing over a few weekends.

Could you perhaps offer some sort of deal where you will pay half the materials but also supply the installation yourself? If you really don't want to contribute in any way I would be prepared to find yourself needing new livery in the near future, but do expect a higher rental elsewhere.
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I agree, it is a reasonable amount but it has cost me an awful lot in repairs over the years and I've also supplied things like troughs and other parts she needs for things as well as also feeding for her or holding for a vet on occasion so I do try to make up for it. I offered to have my partner who is in the trade install it free of charge so saving roughly £400-500 in labour if she bought the materials but that was a no go. Materials would be about the same figure and no supplier is going to sell materials on a 12 month installment plan.

ETA: I've stood up there hours late at night unwell once because her horse was colicking and she was unable to get there quickly so she called the vet and I stayed there. I'd like to think I do my part to be helpful too but I guess maybe that's separate to the field rent.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
If your rent is cheap I think doing maintenance is fine and to be expected. Higher rent would be to cover maintenance done by LL.

If you're both benefitting from the fencing/both have horses on the land can you split the costs?

Also, a contract would be a good idea. It's never too late to protect yourself, especially if it feels as if the goal posts keep changing - a written contract would, hopefully, prevent this.
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Sadly, she doesn't want a contract. Going half and half isn't an option. She's told me she wants it to be replaced and blames the youngster for damaging it who can't get to it and it is very obvious it's broken through rot.
 
GrassChop said:
Sadly, she doesn't want a contract. Going half and half isn't an option. She's told me she wants it to be replaced and blames the youngster for damaging it who can't get to it and it is very obvious it's broken through rot.
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It very much sounds that you are both in stalemate. Land owner wants something you are not prepared to do. All fair enough. No contract in place to determine if you/she should repair/replace etc.

In that case, I'd be quite urgently looking for an alternative place, where agreements are in place to cover all eventualities.
 
GrassChop said:
Sadly, she doesn't want a contract. Going half and half isn't an option. She's told me she wants it to be replaced and blames the youngster for damaging it who can't get to it and it is very obvious it's broken through rot.
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Sorry but in this case I would really be looking for somewhere else, out doesn't sound like you can move forward in any way; she wants new fence, won't go halves, you can't afford. I think you need to look for somewhere else before she gives you marching orders for not doing the maintenance. Though for how low your rent is I would personally be very happy to do maintenance, especially if it meant I could do fencing and shelters how I wanted them.
 
FieldOrnaments said:
Sorry but in this case I would really be looking for somewhere else, out doesn't sound like you can move forward in any way; she wants new fence, won't go halves, you can't afford. I think you need to look for somewhere else before she gives you marching orders for not doing the maintenance. Though for how low your rent is I would personally be very happy to do maintenance, especially if it meant I could do fencing and shelters how I wanted them.
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The fencing and shelters has to be how she wants them. I don't get to choose how I manage it.
 
If you aren't happy and think that you are being badly done by, leave.

It doesn't need to be a big drama. The owner gives you very cheap rent and in return she obviously expects you to maintain the place. You don't think that you should be liable for this, therefore it is very obvious that you should livery somewhere that does not have that expectation.

There is little point debating nuances on here. Speak to the landowner and have the discussion with them. If you both cannot reach a satisfactory conclusion then move.
 
Ok so… we moved last summer from somewhere where the rent was £50 per acre for falling down buildings, no fencing or water and all cutting back of brambles, maintaining hedges, sorting out trees and weeds was down to us.

We are now paying 1.5 times that per acre, but the fencing is maintained for us, shelters are in good condition, muck is removed for free and there is water. Oh my has it made a difference. I have so much free time now, I am so much less tired, and this horrendous winter has been bearable.

Honestly, move. That £85 per month you are saving is not worth it!
 
ihatework said:
It’s obviously difficult as there is nothing in writing,

But I’m assuming your £115 is a month, for the 5 acres / 2 horses?

I don’t know where in the country you are but unless it’s in the arse end of nowhere, where equine land to rent is easily found, then you do not realise quite how cheap that is. On that basis I would 200% be expecting some significant contribution to land upkeep.

I might use this as a starting point to negotiating some sort of lease on the land with some negotiation on maintenance expectations.

It is however likely to lead to a rent increase.

Having just re-read she is not the contracts type of person,

I’d suggest you go 50:50 on the new fence given it’s a shared boundary, but you pay your 50% off to the land owner on a monthly basis over the next X years.
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Second this. I am in a very expensive part of the country and I pay more than double that for 3 horses on 5 acres. I put the fencing and shelters in, I maintain the fences and do all the topping etc, pay for the water. It's right next to my house and I have stables on my bit so very very convenient. So yours in cheap. But it's difficult if there's nothing in writing. You could pay for the fencing and then be asked to leave!
 
It's a good point regarding having no contract and being asked to leave at any time. I'd never looked at it that way but I suppose it is just a risk I would take when I did spend money on anything.

Also, this:
SaddlePsych'D said:
To me there's a difference between maintaining something, and being asked to fully cover the cost of replacing and hugely upgrade something which was already in poor condition. A contribution I get but covering the whole cost seems unreasonable to me.

Also the point above.
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I agree with this. To upgrade something at my own cost that was already poor shouldn't really be a demand. If she wants to replace something that was very old and falling apart to upgrade it then that's up to her. Otherwise, I'll continue to maintain it as it is and if I do more to it to upgrade rather than maintain at my own expense, that's my choice.

Anyway, I assessed the fence, the posts were fine apart from a couple that I've replaced with some spare posts I had and secured the rails, not that I feel I should have been responsible for replacing the posts because the bottoms had rotted out because they are ancient but it's done now. She made out that it needed replacing and was unsafe which wasn't the case. Trying to pull a fast one I think, personally. Can't justify a full new replacement now that I've sorted it out!
 
Tiddlypom said:
Whilst you might feel that you have the moral high ground, that she’s trying to ‘pull a fast one’, you need to be prepared to be asked to leave with little or no notice if you don’t go along with her requests.
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She's very happy with the fence now but as I said, it's a risk I take knowing I could be served notice.
 
Is the stress and hassle of trying to find a new place for two horses really worth it, compared with just paying a few hundred upfront to split the cost and stay where you are? You've had an extremely sweet deal over a really long period of time - I suspect your LL probably feels a bit like she's done you a good turn, which she has and that with all the money you've saved over the years you could put towards keeping the place going.
 
IrishMilo said:
Is the stress and hassle of trying to find a new place for two horses really worth it, compared with just paying a few hundred upfront to split the cost and stay where you are? You've had an extremely sweet deal over a really long period of time - I suspect your LL probably feels a bit like she's done you a good turn, which she has and that with all the money you've saved over the years you could put towards keeping the place going.
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Going 50/50 wasn't an option as I've said. From looking into other nearby "grass livery" or rented fields, it's actually about right so I'm not getting a cheaper deal than others in the area bearing in mind there are no facilities, electric, lighting, hardstanding/yard, taps, it is just an average field. There's a nearby one that's roughly 4 acres and £15 a week! But same again, no facilities. The neighbouring fields are higher and priced per horse rather than field size so this is higher than the others in the area. I have other options but this one was good because I'm next door to a friend who I can share her yard with! If she wanted to put my rent up, she could have. As far as I know, she thought it was right for what it was so wasn't giving me any sort of discounted deal. There was no agreement about rent against maintenance etc.
 
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