What would YOU expect from a 4 year old??

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XmisshorsestyleX

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Hiya,

As individuals I know this is going to vary massively!

I have a 4 year old who is for sale... Who I believe is quite advanced in his training...
However, im finding buyers saying that they want a little bit more....

So what would you expect from a 4 year old - and why do you think people go and look at 4 year olds if they really want something which has been there and done that?
 
My 4 year old is only just being broken in, he just was not mature enough to carry a rider as a 3 year old. But I think most people looking for a 4 year would not expect them to have done that much, as they are still growing and maturing.
 
Shown successfully in hand as 3 yr old
Backed last year
100% in traffic
three lovely paces
works over his back and into the bridle, light in the hands.
jumped show jumps and xc jumps
shown successfully ridden this year winning two firsts in his first ridden show.
 
When my horse was 4 she was only just starting schooling. Personally, I wouldn't want one who had done more.
 
i would actually be the other way and would want a 4yro who had done less than that!
shows how different buyers have different requirements!

my 4yro hacks 3 or 4 times a week for around 20 minutes and goes in the school once a week for around 15 mins (still only walk and trot).

he is 17.2hh though so his workload is very light.

i would expect a 4yro at this time of year to be hacking, some light schooling and possibly popping a few very small jumps.
 
XmisshorsestyleX said:
Shown successfully in hand as 3 yr old
Backed last year
100% in traffic
three lovely paces
works over his back and into the bridle, light in the hands.
jumped show jumps and xc jumps
shown successfully ridden this year winning two firsts in his first ridden show.
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blimey, buyers still want MORE? madness....thats more than sufficient TBH

is he put together correctly?
does he have any limbs missing?
is he blind in one eye?
knock-kneed?
lame?

sorry, clutching at straws, really....;)
 
what level though? because winning at county and SJ/XC at 3ft is very different to winning at your local clout and shout, and SJ/XC over 1ft 6!!!!

at the start of the year id expect a 4yo to w/t/c under saddle in a sweet (but not perfect or 100% consistant) outline, jump small plain fences , hack out round the block.id forgive small bucks, bit of green napping, small spooks, going on wrong leg etc.

by the end of its 4yo year id expect a consistant outline in w/t/c, some leg yield, jumping small courses with fillers, hacking out down bridlepaths/roads, been to a few shows.would want it to be off the leg, straight, no messing around, but would still forgive some *looking/peeping* at things.

a lot depends on the individual horse as well, some 4yo's are obviously talented but just a bit immature and its easy to forgive them being a bit *behind*, some of just very on the ball and end up very advanced without being pushed (mine was doing flying changes and half pass at the end of his 4yo year, and definately hadnt been over schooled, he is just very very bright and picks things up first time, so you can school them 2/3 times a month and he improves every time by miles).

you can tell if a youngster has been pushed as they sour so quickly and look bored and dull or piggy and irritable dependant on character.
 
Babybear said:
I agree -if I was looking to buy a 4 year old I wouldn't be expecting it to have done as much as yours had.
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Ditto I to would not expect a 4 year old to have done so much, as someone said what level has your horse done and what type of buyers is your horse aimed at. I know of high level comp riders who prob would expect that at 4 if not a bit more.
 
Our 4yr old was very babyish, and took a long while to mature. We spent most of that year hacking and letting him find his balance. I took him for SJ lessons with Andrew Hamilton (top scottish SJ) and he said to not push him too much - to allow him to grow up. At 5 we really started to push him.. On the other hand, many competition riders will really push a four yr old. But not many of them make it. My friend bought a 5yr old that had got to Grade B - almost grade A. By the time he was 6 he totally blew a fuse and had what can only be described as a breakdown. Its taken two years to get him back to being able to be ridden and compete. I call it the "Jack in the box syndrome". You can push and push schooling too quickly into a youngster, but it will explode on you at some point...

I suppose they could expect something fantastic if you are asking top money though???

So back to your question. I would expect a 4yr old to be hacking quietly, doing basic schooling (the level depends on the size of the horse - its easier for a young pony in a 20x40 school than a young 16.3h..) to be jumping basic, small fences - coloured and rustic. To have been to shows, but wouldn't expect winnings.

I'd also like to add that buyers often expect the earth for nothing - particularly at the moment, while its still a buyer's market. We sold out pony recently. Very very pretty, but not perfect conformation, for under a grand, and the number of people who grumbled when I told them it wouldn't do county level was unbelievable! They would have had to spend another two thousand for a county type show pony!
 
My horse is nearly 4 & 1/2 and only broken in at the beginning of the year, and now is only doing maybe one hack a week at most. I've done no schooling with her, other than getting her to hold herself in an outline for brief periods and some basic bending whilst on hacks. I do not think she is ready to be schooled properly yet. She is a slower maturing breed though and I am not producing her to sell so have had no reason to push her progress anymore.

When I bought my eventing pony as a rising 5 year old (he was actually rising 4 but we didnt know at the time) he had done very little. A season hunting in Ireland, that was it. When I tried him he couldnt trot on a circle, nearly fell over his own feet! But would jump anything he was pointed at. I would much prefer a blank canvas to a ready made horse, but thats just me, most of the enjoyment is in the training of a youngster for me :D But, I suppose if you are wanting a youngster to aim at the 4yr old classes this year, you would want them fairly well established.
 
Babybear said:
I agree -if I was looking to buy a 4 year old I wouldn't be expecting it to have done as much as yours had.
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Ok, Can I ask why that is??

He was broken around May last year, and mainly hacked out 2-3 times per week for two months - . He had 3 months off, then he started schooling per week. Hes been done slowly and carefully but learns really quickly because hes such a switched on character!!
Hes done small amounts of pole work, jumping up to 2.6ft courses of 5 jumps with ease. Because his flatwork was doing brilliantly I decided to take him out to a local level show for the ridden classes.
 
XmisshorsestyleX said:
Ok, Can I ask why that is??

He was broken around May last year, and mainly hacked out 2-3 times per week for two months - . He had 3 months off, then he started schooling per week. Hes been done slowly and carefully but learns really quickly because hes such a switched on character!!
Hes done small amounts of pole work, jumping up to 2.6ft courses of 5 jumps with ease. Because his flatwork was doing brilliantly I decided to take him out to a local level show for the ridden classes.
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Every horse is different and as you say, your boy was doing well in his flatwork which is why you did more - most of the 4 year olds I've come across could barely walk I straight line - I know mine certainly couldn't and it's only now that he's turned 7 he's fully balanced.


As annaellie said, if you're pitching for a competition type home then he sounds ideal for them - my RI's 4 year old is jumping over a metre tracks but personally, I'd prefer something with slightly lower mileage - it doesn't sounds like you've pushed your boy to hard too fast but I have met 4 year olds who have been pushed beyond their limits and are none the better for it.
 
Its not even as if im asking the world for him either - people are telling me I am putting people off with the low price... BUT I think in the current market it is fair, and considering hes previous qualified for CHAPS/PUK and the Royal London... The potential is there! Hes advertised for £2500.

I suppose its down to matter of opinion and the inidividual horse, quite frankly if people think hes not done enough I dont want people like that touching my pony!

Vetting people over the phone is a nightmare!!
 
Someone I know is selling a really nice 4 year old from Ireland, really straightforward ISH with a nice jump but green still - 4.5k - yours sounds cheap!!!
 
However, im finding buyers saying that they want a little bit more....
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Rubbish - what they actually mean is they want money taken off ;)

I wouldn't be interested in buying a 4yr old who's done so much, esp a heavy. Whilst you have done it slowly and sensibily (or so you say) , that level of experience often means too much work, too soon. ESPECIALLY with coloured cob - who are often broken and worked at 2yrs old :( - hard to tell how much they've done if they're broken and going nicely: much 'safer' if they're unbroken/just been sat on.
 
My last horse Rocky was so mature for his age that we were jumping BN and Discoveries when he was a 4 yr old, he also went XC schooling and did a very small ODE. He was hunted at the end of his 4th year and then went on to jump Newcomers as a 5 yr old as well as some unaffiliated dressage and eventing.
I sold him to a MFH when he was 5 1/2 and he excelled in the hunting field, and jumping double clears at the Marlborough Cup hunt relay 3 years running.
A horse of a lifetime, I just wish I had realised at the time :(

Axel was shown in hand as a 2 and 3 yr old, winning the UK champs in 2005 at Keysoe. His first riding horse showing class he won as a 4 yr old, as well as unaffiliated dressage. He was not as mature as Rocky and is only really started working properly when he was about 6.


So I think it just depends on the horse, some can cope with a lot more than others and if your 4 yr old is doing all that and is happy then I don't see it's a problem xx
 
A 4 yo?

Impeccable ground manners, leading/grooming/bathing.
Hack in company or alone in control at 3 paces good in traffic.
Understand circling concepts and working over back (but not in an outline)
Comfortable with poles and wings but not necesarily jumping.
 
mine had only been lightly backed and started doing things as a four year old pushing her more this year but she just wasn't coping mentally when she was four so i think it depends on the horse as i have another who was going well at 4 but was ready mentally
 
When i was looking for my horse who i have now i was looking for a 4 year old who had been broken and no schooling, ended up with a 5 and a half year old who had been brocken at 3 turned away with the intent of bringing her back to work at 4 and then she had been left as the owner had other horses to concertrait on with jumping and she was a cob type so was not a priority, This is because i wanted one that hadnt been schooled so really im the opposite to the people who have been saying they want a bit more. Id rather have less and do it myself lol!
 
If I was buying a 4 yr old I'd have wanted it to be well handled, bitted and maybe long reined and lightly backed. That, unfortunately, is difficult to find as many people feel the need to back at 2 or 3 and be competing by 4.

If someone wants a horse who has some experience under it's belt then surely they should be looking at horses older than 4!
 
I would want a horse that had not been rushed. Good ground manners are a definite, well handled, good for the farrier etc.

Every horse is different, but I would not want a competition record (unless it was just in-hand showing or real baby type stuff). I would want them to have learned to go forwards off the leg but not all horses will be steady to the contact at this point. As long as there are 3 good paces and they are off the leg from the beginning then that is fine for me. A bit of spooking, greeness and bucking are fine, but nothing nasty (would suggest that the horse has been forced to do things too early).

A good allround education eg if I was buying a dressage horse I wouldn't just have wanted it to be schooled on the flat, I'd expect it to also jump a little and be hacking. The early years are so important, I would much rather take my time with a very inexperienced young horse than buy a 4 year old that had been rushed.
 
not too much but depends how much into their 4 year old they are.
Personally my appy boy next year i hope to be competing in young dressage classes with him so i am hoping by the end he can:
Hack out calmly in traffic
walk, trot and canter in the school lightly
pole work
leg-yield, shoulder in.
medium trot
stretch down and flex in walk and trot
jump 2ft3 ish but not too much competitively.
hoping to get him up to novice by the end of the year.

I don't think i would buy one who had done too much jumping unless they looked very mature for their age. I bought a 4 year old who had only just turned 4 and he had been jumping and xc in ireland when he was 3 :O and he had suffered from it as his growth was stunted and he shot up when he came to us and we did a lot less with him and had to have steriod injections in his shoulders so his spine was compressed by his shoulder muscles :( poor boy.
i personally would buy something that could just do walk, trot and canter in the school for a good price as i like a good project :P
 
Personally I would EXPECT;
Riding quietly in walk trot canter
Hacking out and used to traffic
Loading, shoeing, catching, tying up
Balanced on the lunge.

I would HOPE for (but not expect)
Popping a small jump
Hacking out alone
Balanced in a circle under saddle

But if I was looking for a show horse then probably some success in hand too (although would never be looking for one of them).

I don't think you have done too much with by any stretch of the imagination, nor have you done too little the people who have seen him are obviously mental.
 
Hmm, see I am really having to keep myself under control a bit with my 4 year old as he will do whatever asked of him! And it would be very very easy to push him and I'm fairly confident he would SJ at BN level by the end of the summer if I asked him to. However I really want a sound happy horse in 10 years time, so he won't do over 2'6 before next spring, over the winter he might do the odd 2'6 local class but no bigger as being SJ bred and 16.2hh I'm fairly sure once the flatwork is in place the height won't be very relevant. I'm not producing him to sell so not going to rush.

I'd be on the side of those who have said on this post that if anything I would want a 4 year old to have done less rather than more! ACtually having done it with Roo I would buy unbacked again without hesitation - that way I know EXACTLY what he has done.

At this point in the year I'm thrilled that mine (at 16.2hh) is off the leg, balanced and rhythmical in walk and trot and reasonably balanced in canter, he struggles slightly with 20m circles in canter so we don't do those much, he's popped x poles, and small vertical/spread for first time last weekend, and been through water/over ditch/bank. Oh and done a WT test. He's now on holiday for a month.

Maybe if you are pitching at the serious showing market (if thats what he's aimed for) he is a bit cheap and people assume there is something wrong?
 
My just turned four y.o is hacking out solo roads, etc just started going out in company has had his first canter in company he was in front and behind ,hes jumped twice this year one jump though he can jump 3ft easily doing transitions well excellent brakes over open field s i take his work as i think he is i have a lesson once a week from a dressage rider who competes at a high level but no pressure, just to make sure im doing every thing right ! Thats dropping to once a fortnight soon , any schooling i try to do on a hack really he really does enjoy going out and about !I would like to take him to a local indoor show they put jumps up at the level you require even if on the floor aparantly so i would do this just to let him have a look as a schooling thing he was broke as a three year old and i just gentle hacks solo on roads and estates ,i give hi random weeks off but still bring him in to groom /feed him and give him 2-3 days off a week he comes to call to so i must be doing something right !I think it depends on horse tbh and what your aim is
 
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