What would you expect of a rising 4 year old...

[millitiger]

i'm not even sure if it is that much of a difference between the breeds but more what you want the horse to do in the future.

i want mine to event so he needs to be bold, brave enough to hack out alone, go where i tell him without question and very important- look after his own feet/legs and work out where to put them on all sorts of terrain.

once he can do all of the above, then i will start working on his schoolwork.

if i wanted to do dressage, i would still like him to hack out but it would be secondary to getting him working well in the school.

having worked at a dressage yard and eventing yard where there were lots of youngsters (and for my sins i was usually the cannon fodder!) regardless of the breed of the horse both yards operated differently.

at the dressage yard we worked all of the youngsters in the indoor school for the first few months, getting them really forwards and off the leg and taking the contact forwards.
then they could work in the outdoor school and if they were lucky they would hack 2x a year around the potato field next door.

at the eventing yard, the youngsters were long reined around the fields to start.
first ridden session would be being led around the yard then you were sent off around the fields to put in place the steering, brakes and accelerator!
most of them were popping little xc fences before they set foot in the school.

as i said, breeding wasn't really the important part.
the dressage yard had some more traditionally bred British horses and the eventing yard had some warmbloods in.

 

[FrodoBeutlin]

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That canter on the video you posted is absolutely jaw dropping... thank you so much for showing me the video!

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I know, he is a totally amazing horse... I tried to find a video from the BuCha but all I could find was this one (which seems to be made by a member of the audience at a stallion presentation, doesn't it)

As for long-term soundness issues, I don't necessarily agree. The one example I mentioned (my friend's rising 4) is definitely a horse for life, she has no intention of ever selling him and she would like him to be her next upper level horse.
He isn't really hacked out, but that is because it is virtually impossible to find yards in Germany which will hack the horses out for you if you have horses on training livery. However when the weather allows (not now with half a metre of snow..) the Bereiter does take him out on the race track for a good gallop, he does hill work (we have two artificial hills inside the racetrack) and even when in the school, he does pop over cavalletti every now and then just to add variety in his training.

To be honest I think that some of these modern Warmbloods are built so perfectly for the sport, have got such an uphill conformation and well-set neck that things really are extraordinarily easily for them.

 

[TarrSteps]

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To be honest I think that some of these modern Warmbloods are built so perfectly for the sport, have got such an uphill conformation and well-set neck that things really are extraordinarily easily for them.

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I would agree, this is a significant factor. It was a real revelation to me, having just made do with the horses around me most of my life, to meet purpose bred horses. They find the right things so easy it's mostly a case of staying out of their way and of getting them stronger and well educated without screwing them up!

Well bred Irish event-type horses are just as purpose bred, just suited for a different sphere. (And they have a lot of KWPN horses in their breeding now, so doing a "Dutch vs Irish" comparison would be tricky if we're talking competition bred horses. It's more about what discipline they're for.) The very good ones are good exactly because they excel naturally in ways that make them fit for purpose and take relatively less production at each stage. It isn't just the training that makes them different, the horses suit the task and the training reflects that "niche".

By the same token, there are some dressage bred youngsters that, if you just shovelled someone on and sent them out into a field, would never be seen again! Horses for courses. I think part of the secret of good production is looking at the big picture, producing horses picked for the job, in a way that suits, with end goals in mind.

The thing that really brought it home to me was working with AQHA horses. I thought jogs and lopes were things you trained into a horse because the western horses I'd seen and ridden up to that point were pretty average but could be improved with training. It was a revelation to meet "top end" ones and find out the youngsters just did it. Put them on the end of the longe line or watch them in a field and they just jogged and loped in the desired shape as a natural way of going. Yes, the average horses could be improved but this was a whole different ball game.

I do think, as I said, the playing field levels as horses get older. Proper training becomes so much more a part of it. Good horses can be improved with strength and tactful training, but on the other hand it's so easy to make horses less than they can be and many of the brilliant looking ones don't progress ideally. In the end though, the natural talent produced well will still beat all comers.

Which isn't to say people shouldn't try! Every horse can be improved.

 

[_jetset_]

It would be very interesting to compare the different disciplines too... including endurance and show jumping in that too!

I too have two horses who are not purpose bred. One is a Dutch x TB who is bred to event and the other is an IDxTB who was bred to hunt! Both of these horses 'do dressage' but it will be interesting when I start training the new girl what she finds easier than the other two and what she finds more difficult.

The soundness issues do concern me (having been through hell and back with Grace) and ideally I would absolutely love to get my new one out hacking as much as possible. But the road at the bottom of the drive is lethal, I am not even happy taking my bomb proof Irish lady down it because they treat it as a rally track

I am counting down the days now until the clocks change and it is not pitch black every time I am at the yard so I can box up and take them all on hacks.

In the meantime, I just have to keep work as varied as possible for all three horses... loose jumping, pole work, jumping under saddle for the two older ladies, and as much turnout as the yard allows.