What would you pay for this horse?

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jagmadir

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Hi guys,

I'm looking for some advice from the general population, the more responses I get the better - so please do reply with your opinion if you read this! Be honest with your valuation and please provide a reason why you've given the price. I won't take offence to any value or comment given.

I have a horse which if I was to advertise would go a little something like this:

"14yr old 16.1hh well put together Irish Draught Gelding. Competed and won up to Newcomers, brave and careful jumper. Stays in a good rhythmn and can jump from anywhere.

Brave and sensible cross country, good with water, ditches etc.

Established flatwork, would do a nice dressage test if someone wanted to do pure unnaff dressage / event. Has hunted and is good with hounds but can be strong.

Good to box, shoe, clip and has excellent stable manners. Low mileage as only started his career at a later age.

Had sarcoids removed from around his eye, chest and sheath in 2009 so has a scar around his eye. Prefers hacking in company where there is limited traffic. Not a novice ride, has been known to rear."
 
In my opinion I think you will struggle to sell such a horse at this moment in time for much more than meat money. :(

My reasons? He would have appeal to a VERY limited sector of the market. Firstly, you say he is not a novice ride and rears, so that rules out those looking for a schoolmaster. Secondly, he is a strong hunter, but the hunt season is finished in most areas, unless you go down to Exmoor or somewhere similar. Most buying a hunter would like to see it/try it in the hunting field, so that option is out unless you can keep him ticking over during the summer, get him cubbing and start to advertise him before the opening meet. Thirdly, the sarcoids will rule him out for many. Fourthly, the inability to hack on his own and dislike of much traffic will rule him out for the majority of amateur one-horse owners who like to do a bit of everything.

Your one chance to sell in my opinion is IF he has a decent BS record and that record is current.....ie the newcomers win is this year or last. If it is what he did as a 7 year old, for instance, then it is really of little/no significance.

For comparison, there is a 16.2hh 17 year old SJ mare being advertised in the latest horses for sale for 1.5k or near offer. That implies they will take 1.250 or probably even 1k. Bear in mind that this ISH will also have a value as a broodmare, which of course, sadly, the horse you are talking of, doesn't.
 
Plenty of competitive riders will buy such a horse, but for a lowish price- I'd say 1200-1800 probably . Riding club wont want to touch it neither will the amateurs.
 
Someone may buy him as a hunter, if he is good strong will not be too much of a problem, I don't see him having much of a market as a competition horse, jumping newcomers is within the scope of most and the average person looking for an older horse as a schoolmaster will not want a horse that has so many ifs and maybes, a pro would not be interested in a 14 year old as there is no room to develop him further and sell on.
The sarcoids would not bother me if they have not reappeared after so long, the needing to hack in company and guessing he is not good with traffic combined with the napping/ rearing would be far more of an issue, as a general allrounder I think it is hard to value him but well under £2k as a good hunter possibly more if he had been hunted properly with a good pack, provided he is genuinely sound and will pass a vetting.
 
Nothing, because I have no desire for such a horse... (Well, it is a bit of a stupid question - what would you pay?) What's he worth? You might get £1500 as a hunter type but I reckon you'd be lucky.

You may also find this thread gets pulled if Admin see it / somebody can be bothered reporting it.
 
Wouldn't be for me either im afraid, So nothing would be my answer, sorry, I Have taken a punt on things in the past, either for a bit of fun for myself, or to sell on for a bit extra, but the two things ill never touch would be sarcoids (even if treated) and rearing sorry.
 
I think he actually sounds quite a good horse, although I think I would certainly want to know more about the rearing before I tried him. Maybe I would consider spending up to £4k, if his sarcoid's were resolved and he only reared once in a blue moon.
 
blackhor2e said:
I think he actually sounds quite a good horse, although I think I would certainly want to know more about the rearing before I tried him. Maybe I would consider spending up to £4k, if his sarcoid's were resolved and he only reared once in a blue moon.
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Well it seems there are few interested, but I would expect to pay £4K for one that is 100%, but neither do I think he is to be sold off at an extreme low cost.
Re hunting, someone somewhere may desperately need a hunter due to accident, so he might still find a home there now.
The reason for sale would be of interest to me.
good luck, I have a good feeling about him, but a lot depends on temperament, some owners don't bother, some do.
The danger is a dealer buys him and sells him on as 100%
 
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he does not like to hack alone, he does not like too much traffic, he is strong when hunting, he rears and he has had sarcoids removed from three places, his age is beginning to go against him too?

personally I would not give him a second glance and I think you would be lucky to get 1k in the current market
 
twiggy2 said:
he does not like to hack alone, he does not like too much traffic, he is strong when hunting, he rears and he has had sarcoids removed from three places, his age is beginning to go against him too?

personally I would not give him a second glance and I think you would be lucky to get 1k in the current market
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He either hacks alone or does not, any fighting is might be down to the current rider.

Lots of horses do not need to be ridden in ordinary traffic conditions, if he is only to be ridden on an estate where cars will stop, it should be OK
He is not a constant rearer, he might only be resistant if in the wrong hands. Needs a welly in the belly.
There are no active sarcoids.
He has had an easy life, might be ok for another four years.

OK, this is not a horse for the average person, he is a bit of a risk, but he might be good fun. What suits one person does not suit another, to be honest I have been to see horses who have some of these issues, and they were not mentioned till I turned up.
I once went to view a horse described as "giving her all", the owners were reluctant to let me ride ........ I soon discovered why, it was newly backed!
 
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Had sarcoids removed from around his eye, chest and sheath in 2009 so has a scar around his eye. Prefers hacking in company where there is limited traffic. Not a novice ride, has been known to rear
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I interpret that as 'Won't hack alone and is scared of traffic'. The fact that he's also 14 and has had sarcoids doesn't work in his favour, either.

I wouldn't expect him to fetch more than 1.2k (or more accurately, I don't think he's worth any more than that - and I was being generous there!).
 
The strong out hunting wouldn't bother me as I don't hunt. The sarcoids wouldn't bother me as long as they were totally gone and the vet confirmed it.
The rearing?! Now that bothers me but it depends on the circumstances. Does he rear occassionally out hacking alone because hes nappy and doesnt like it. Well I know tons of competition horses like that and the owners just hack in company. Does he rear when under pressure in the arena or show, that's a definite no in my eyes.
However it sounds like he's lovely to compete and tbh a horse who gives me fun and success is worth a lot to me. I'd rather a double clear horse all day long than a perfect hack type but who spooks and drops a shoulder at the first fence or who won't chip in and help me out when Im nervous.
I don't think he's worth much mainly because of his age and issues but I wouldn't rule him out being suitable for someone out there.
 
Hi everyone, thanks for all your responses!

He's actually a very sweet horse, loves nothing more than a good ole smooch! He's just a bit emotional :)

Rearing only happens when he's hacking alone OR having a paddy out hacking in company. He's not been known to rear anywhere else, and it's only on the road when there's quite a bit of traffic (worst time to rear though!). But if you have him on a quiet lane or in a field, he's a good hack. Unfortunately for me to get to a quiet lane or field I do have to go up a fairly busy country road which has quite large traffic.

Sarcoids: five years with no reoccurrence yet, and he was treated at Liverpool University so had the best possible care.

Competing: his wins and places were all in the last 12 months, as was his hunting etc.

I bought him but the seller wasn't honest, so I know that I paid over and above. But I was keen to get an idea of what people value him at with a truthful advert.
 
Well if the ad was worded without the negatives, something like this

16.1 smart reg ID gelding, 14years, super, careful jumper, numerous wins and placings BS to newcomers, easy to ride in the ring so a perfect schoolmaster for an amateur.
Brilliant xc, jumps ditches, water etc, excellent hunter, hunted with ***** hounds, fit and ready to hunt this season.
Well established on the flat, goes in an outline with 3 good correct paces, snaffle mouth.
Good to box, shoe, clip, easy to catch etc. lovely manners in and out of the stable.

No lies, just omissions then the price would be far higher, I wouldn't expect to see some of his negatives in an ad, some are a matter of opinion, the sarcoids if genuinely no longer an issue would be something to declare if asked, the only thing that really needs to put in an ad are declarable vices, the rest should be given if asked but not many people are totally honest and will underplay things if they feel they can get away with it or he may have lived somewhere that didn't require roadwork or there was very little traffic.

You may find that he will improve, if he mainly does what you require of him it is worth working on the traffic problem.
 
be positive said:
No lies, just omissions
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That is lying.

the only thing that really needs to put in an ad are declarable vices, the rest should be given if asked but not many people are totally honest and will underplay things if they feel they can get away with it
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That doesn't make it right. If I rang up about the horse you have written an advert above about, only to then be told that he has had sarcoids, rears, is a wotsit on the road and doesn't hack well, then I'd be very annoyed at having had my time wasted. An advert should be honest, and if the horse isn't perfect on paper then so be it. Just please don't lie/waste someone's time and potentially put people at risk.
 
SpringArising said:
That is lying.



That doesn't make it right. If I rang up about the horse you have written an advert above about, only to then be told that he has had sarcoids, rears, is a wotsit on the road and doesn't hack well, then I'd be very annoyed at having had my time wasted. An advert should be honest, and if the horse isn't perfect on paper then so be it. Just please don't lie/waste someone's time and potentially put people at risk.
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My point was that the OP has bought this horse, she is not trying to sell it, from an ad possibly in a similar style to what I wrote, if things are not in the ad that are important to a buyer they must still ask before buying not take the ad as the whole truth.
Hardly any horses are perfect but most ads make them appear to be, even the supposedly honest ones putting in a few problems may well hide other undeclared issues, many well behaved horses change when they move to a new home, much is down opinion somebody may find a horse straightforward and easy the next person may find it sharp or tricky in some way, a rider hanging on to a forward going horse may cause it to become nappy or rear, a rider that is nervous will transmit that through to a sensitive horse, I don't think that you can put enough in an ad to cover all eventualities and prefer to speak to people about different characteristics the horse may have.

I usually find a genuine buyer will expect a few minor "quirks" as long as it does not effect the job the horse is required to do, the OP bought a horse that has proved to be less than perfect hacking alone but may have done very little alone previously so this issue may not have been known by the sellers, if every horse had all it's issues and history written in an advert they would make very interesting reading.
 
This could be lengthy! I was told at the time that his scar was from an injury sustained in the field, however, I later found out that he had received radiation therapy to remove sarcoids. The seller maintains that they didn't think they would come back so didn't think they needed to tell me. Even my vet was happy that the scar was from an old injury!

Having asked the usual such as "What's he like in traffic?" I was told I could hack him down the M4. But, it's subjective. Who's to say he wasn't fine up until he came to me? The were located in a very quiet area but they did say that they've ridden him down a very busy main road (national speed limit) and he was bombproof.

I also asked about whether he had any vices, which they said he didn't and that he was an easy horse to have around and do. But it transpires from his old owner (not the person selling) that he had reared with the seller quite a bit out on the road (and they're not little bunny hops, they are straight up vertical and strike out rears) and that they had tried riding him in a hackamore to see if it was mouth related with no success. But they didn't think it was worth mentioning.

I know it's buyer beware which is why I'm not angry, in all the years I've been involved with horses this is the first time I've been completey mislead. But, he is a lovely horse really! Just not worth what I paid for him!
 
I would not worry too much about what you paid for him as long as he suits you and you can cope with him, money for a horse is pretty much money lost whichever way you look at it.
Yes you have been told lies, if the vendor is a dealer [and that can mean someone who sells very few horses] then you might be able to send it back if he agrees to take the horse back, its very unlikely. You would probably have to go to small claims court, but then that is for small values.
Rearing is more likely to be back related than mouth, but is is a vice in anyone's language.
 
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