What would you value this package as?

[Nicnac]

Sounds right in terms of pricing but is this for your 'useless' groom?!

 

[LadyGascoyne]

This. Takes the complication out of everything.

She does all mine too so it probably is easier for me to let her have some of my hay and feed that to find space for her to store her own. And we are on organic land so all our suppliers are non-gm/ organic. It’s a pain!

Just fyi, you can't drop her wages to the point it takes her under minimum wage. I'm sure you know that but a lot of people forget this when offering benefits in kind.

The deal would be that instead of being here twice a week for anywhere between four and six hours a day, she now comes daily and does two hours a day for me.

I plan to structure as the first hour is for poo picking and making sure water is clean and electric fences are in one piece for 1-2 horses. This is in exchange for free keep of her horse.

The second hour is for picking out feet, rug check / changes and turning out, and skipping out if they are in. This is paid at her usual rate.

Sounds right in terms of pricing but is this for your 'useless' groom?!

If you mean the girl who was struggling to get through the chores on two days a week, yes.

This is restructuring it so that she can come daily.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

So to simplify:

Free board, hay, bedding and chaff with me doing the bringing in, checks, rugging and feeding in the evenings and on weekends.

In exchange for:

1 hour poo picking and checking fields per week day (same field her own horse is in).

Then paid for turning out, doing feet, skipping out, rugging mine, at £12 per hour.

Likely to be one of my horses, possibly 2.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Then paid for turning out, doing feet, skipping out, rugging mine, at £12 per hour.

I do think you need to be crystal clear about exactly how many reasonable hours you expect those jobs to be done in on a weekly or daily basis. Otherwise she can swan about like a sloth building up the hours to suit herself. It could get very costly for you unless it is clearly defined.

 

[AmyMay]

I do think you need to be crystal clear about exactly how many reasonable hours you expect those jobs to be done in on a weekly or daily basis. Otherwise she can swan about like a sloth building up the hours to suit herself. It could get very costly for you unless it is clearly defined.

I agree. Is this the groom who you’ve had problems with?

 

[cauda equina]

I do think you need to be crystal clear about exactly how many reasonable hours you expect those jobs to be done in on a weekly or daily basis. Otherwise she can swan about like a sloth building up the hours to suit herself. It could get very costly for you unless it is clearly defined.

Love the image Mrs J!

 

[Tiddlypom]

If you mean the girl who was struggling to get through the chores on two days a week, yes.

This is restructuring it so that she can come daily.

All credit for giving someone a chance to shape up, but do you really think that she's got it in her to actually do some work without being constantly supervised? She's let you down before.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I agree. Is this the groom who you’ve had problems with?

All credit for giving someone a chance to shape up, but do you really think that she's got it in her to actually do some work without being constantly supervised? She's let you down before.

She’s always been reliable in arriving, and she’s lovely and kind to the horses.

The issue has been getting through the chores and paying attention to detail. The lack of commercial pace, as someone put it brilliantly.

I did try to interview someone else. They didn’t arrive for their 6pm interview, I waited until 9pm and canceled with them. They haven’t rescheduled.

My hope is that by including current grooms horse in the yard, there is an added incentive to poo pick, clean water troughs, make sure fences work. If I can just pay for the “care of my horses” bit, then that’s only an hour or two a day. The rest must be done as part of care for hers.

 

[View]

I understand that you are trying to help her, but I think this muddies the waters horribly.

If she doesn't shape up, you are going to have to give notice on the livery as well - how would you feel about this?

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I understand that you are trying to help her, but I think this muddies the waters horribly.

If she doesn't shape up, you are going to have to give notice on the livery as well - how would you feel about this?

It is a risk, but the reality is that reliable, motivated, trustworthy grooms don’t grow on trees.

I have someone who is reliable and trustworthy, and so now I’m trying to bring some motivation into the equation.

The options locally seem to be girls at school/ college/ uni who want to do weekends and holidays only, a couple of people who can’t come in the morning or can only come infrequently due to everything from not having a dog sitter to not being a morning person, a few who can’t get to me because of they don’t have transport.

Then we have professional grooms who need a situation where there are proper facilities to train their own horse, or a horse to compete on. I don’t have the right set up to offer them.

And then there a well known freelancer who does polo/ hunting/ country estate yards but she is absolutely awful to horses - I saw her smack one in the face for getting upset about leaving the field.

You can see why people end up putting their horses on livery, even when they have stables at home!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I still think you shouldn't offer livery in return for certain jobs do it completely separate.

Pay her wages and charge her for her livery hay and feed.

I just think offering her a package in exchange for work is going to confuse the issue and potentially end up with not much being done, in my view the number one incentive for any job is money and if she is not even being motivated with that, a livery package won't either ?

 

[Caol Ila]

Only LG knows her groom, but from my Transatlantic point of view, this is a common arrangement in the US. I have worked at barns for everything from less-than-minimum wage + free horse board to free horse board and free human accommodation and zero wage. The joys of being a working student. So much of the horse industry - especially at competition barns - hinges on this model. Barns get free/cheap labour (waaaay less than £12 per hour... if only...) and the working students get an "in" into the industry, maybe. It works, and it sometimes, it really doesn't.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I may go with her paying me, and me paying her. I have given her the principles of the agreement and will wait to hear what she thinks. She may not want to do it this way either.

 

[Abacus]

I have had similar experiences of poor reliability. I've had two grooms, both young and fitting around college etc. The first would call me with less than no notice (i.e. an hour after due to start) saying things like her car wouldn't start. By that time I would have been in London for 2 hours and no way of getting back to do the horses. The other did turn up but did the minimum. I remember arriving half an hour before the end of her 2 hour shift to find her just sitting at the picnic table waiting for her lift, with plenty left undone (she had a list of the essentials - feeding, mucking out etc - and also extras if she had spare time, like tack cleaning. She never got as far as the extras). I think I just don't have the scale (a few horses on 10 acres) to justify employing a good groom. Whatever I pay per hour, within reason, isn't going to add up to very much for a couple of hours per day.

I have found it works better to have this sort of working livery arrangement, or better still a friend sharing.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

LG, really cost up your hay.
Say it's £5 a small bale, big pony or horse 'can' consume 3.5 bales +/- a week in mid winter on average. So that's 17.50+/- a week on hay.
A decent bedding like Aubiose is knocking at nearly 11 a bale.
So in mid winter it's going to cost you approx 27.50 +/- a week, so roughly 120pcm just for hay and a bale of bedding a week.
This is on top of 'parking', aka DIY livery at around £35pw (which is only 5 a day!), plus weekend care on top
Plus additional power as livery comes and go in the dark, perhaps at different times to you.
Plus also factor in additional filling of muck heap, might need extra clearing, plus also additional water consumed.
Then repairs etc on top.....

Hope you find the right person x

 

[Dexter]

LG, really cost up your hay.
Say it's £5 a small bale, big pony or horse 'can' consume 3.5 bales +/- a week in mid winter on average. So that's 17.50+/- a week on hay.
A decent bedding like Aubiose is knocking at nearly 11 a bale.
So in mid winter it's going to cost you approx 27.50 +/- a week, so roughly 120pcm just for hay and a bale of bedding a week.
This is on top of 'parking', aka DIY livery at around £35pw (which is only 5 a day!), plus weekend care on top
Plus additional power as livery comes and go in the dark, perhaps at different times to you.
Plus also factor in additional filling of muck heap, might need extra clearing, plus also additional water consumed.
Then repairs etc on top.....

Hope you find the right person x

Livery isnt that much in LGs area. DIY with facilities is £100 up to £150 for indoor schools and fancier places. Less with no school. Shes pricing it about right for the area, especially given the convenience for the groom and LG

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Livery isnt that much in LGs area. DIY with facilities is £100 up to £150 for indoor schools and fancier places. Less with no school. Shes pricing it about right for the area, especially given the convenience for the groom and LG

Crikey, big difference between a couple of counties isn't there!
I was charging 100pcm DIY Inc stable and storage with no arena etc 30 years ago!
DIY seems to be one thing that's escaped much increases, unlike most other things.

Whereas dog or cat boarding hasn't...

 

[ponynutz]

id say 20-30 a week here so 120pm

 

[mariew]

If that's the case I would charge

So to simplify:

Free board, hay, bedding and chaff with me doing the bringing in, checks, rugging and feeding in the evenings and on weekends.

In exchange for:

1 hour poo picking and checking fields per week day (same field her own horse is in).

Then paid for turning out, doing feet, skipping out, rugging mine, at £12 per hour.

Likely to be one of my horses, possibly 2.

So in effect the extra hour is worth £60/week, or £250 ish per month. I'd go with charging properly and itemising stuff. The risk is if she doesn't do the extra hour you want every day, you will end up permanently nagging her and it causing resentment.

 

[Palindrome]

But is she currently poo picking for her horse? If not, that will give her extra work, that you will be paying her to do while she will pay you for you to pay her... not sure more work for her to do will help if she wasn't doing enough to start with.

 

[meleeka]

I’d be happy with an hour to poo pick for 1 or 2, check fences and water. I think that could probably be done in half an hour.

 

[Lexi_]

Sorry if I’ve missed this while scrolling and it’s already been answered, but what are the implications if she’s then off sick or on holiday? Do you end up doing her horse then as well?

I really hope it works out for you as I think you’re being extremely kind to try and consider all these solutions, but I do worry a little bit that it’s not actually going to save you the time/work that you need.

 

[Barton Bounty]

She’s always been reliable in arriving, and she’s lovely and kind to the horses.

The issue has been getting through the chores and paying attention to detail. The lack of commercial pace, as someone put it brilliantly.

I did try to interview someone else. They didn’t arrive for their 6pm interview, I waited until 9pm and canceled with them. They haven’t rescheduled.

My hope is that by including current grooms horse in the yard, there is an added incentive to poo pick, clean water troughs, make sure fences work. If I can just pay for the “care of my horses” bit, then that’s only an hour or two a day. The rest must be done as part of care for hers.

I think she would be getting a good deal by the sounds of it @LadyGascoyne

 

[little_critter]

I do think you need to be crystal clear about exactly how many reasonable hours you expect those jobs to be done in on a weekly or daily basis. Otherwise she can swan about like a sloth building up the hours to suit herself. It could get very costly for you unless it is clearly defined.

And it will be harder to sack her if her horse has moved in.

 

[maya2008]

I’m just going to pop this on as a thought. You’re saying that care of your 1-2 horses will take 2 hours a day, correct?

I have 7 (I know, more fool me!) with three currently coming in at night. Two on straw, one on shavings. Deep litter so just skipping out as suggested in your post. Daily, it takes me 30mins in the morning for feet, skipping out stables, turning out. Then 45mins poo picking/fence and water trough checking, filling haynets and bringing in, in the afternoon. So an hour and a quarter a day total for 7 ponies on 6 and a bit acres. 2 hours a day for 2 horses is a huge amount of time!

 

[ycbm]

Deleted, already said.