Spyda
Well-Known Member
What's best to use on foal's umbilical stump after foaling? Is it still recommended to use Purple spray? Or is there something more up to date to use these days to prevent the dreaded navel and joint ill?
What's best for umbilical stump?
- Thread starter Spyda
- Start date
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
iodine
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
Iodine is too astringent really... 7% is too harsh, and lower concentrations may not offer sufficient protection. 0.5% chlorohexidine solution is the best thing to use.
Hope that helps.
Hope that helps.
mike1210
Member
The best thing to prevent naval problems is to make sure the environment into which the foal is born is as clean as poss, and that the mare has been in that place for a good week or two, this allows her to produce antibodies to pathogens in that immediate environment, these are passed to foal and foal is protected better.
Naval probs are also alot more lilely if the umbilicus had been ruptured too early - leave the mare calm so she doesnt rise too quickly and prematurely snap cord.
Tying off and cutting cord has also increased likelhood of probs.
I foal anywhere upto 100 a year and have always always used green spray (engemycin - oxytetracycline)
In comparison to chlorhexidine the engemycin not only being antibacterial it if you look closely dries like a film so acts as a mechanical barrier also to some extent.
Naval probs are also alot more lilely if the umbilicus had been ruptured too early - leave the mare calm so she doesnt rise too quickly and prematurely snap cord.
Tying off and cutting cord has also increased likelhood of probs.
I foal anywhere upto 100 a year and have always always used green spray (engemycin - oxytetracycline)
In comparison to chlorhexidine the engemycin not only being antibacterial it if you look closely dries like a film so acts as a mechanical barrier also to some extent.
Maggie2
Well-Known Member
AKA Hibiscrub I think
Daisy11
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Iodine is too astringent really... 7% is too harsh, and lower concentrations may not offer sufficient protection. 0.5% chlorohexidine solution is the best thing to use.
Hope that helps.
[/ QUOTE ]
hows it that vets recommend this then
Iodine is too astringent really... 7% is too harsh, and lower concentrations may not offer sufficient protection. 0.5% chlorohexidine solution is the best thing to use.
Hope that helps.
[/ QUOTE ]
hows it that vets recommend this then
mike1210
Member
Yes but not too concentrated. as i said husbandry and hygiene more important than what you throw on the naval.
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The best thing to prevent naval problems is to make sure the environment into which the foal is born is as clean as poss, and that the mare has been in that place for a good week or two, this allows her to produce antibodies to pathogens in that immediate environment, these are passed to foal and foal is protected better
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Although I would say aim for having the mare in the foaling location for around 30 days before foaling if possible.
[ QUOTE ]
I foal anywhere upto 100 a year and have always always used green spray (engemycin - oxytetracycline)
[/ QUOTE ]
The spray is fine, of course. My reasons for recommending chlorohex' over it are:
*The sprays are heavily coloured, and so "look" like they're lasting a long time, and put people off making regular applications, whereas the antibiotic action is actually fairly short-lived.
*Oxytetracycline (the antibiotic in Engemycin) may not be effective against the worst offending bacteria. For instance, E.Coli is resistant to the tetracyclines.
Ischa - I think the reason the vets are still recommending iodine, is because there isn't a huge amount of literature out there on treating foal's umbilical stumps, and the literature that is present hasn't filtered through to the vets yet who already have enough on their plates trying to keep up with every other aspect of equine medicine
The best thing to prevent naval problems is to make sure the environment into which the foal is born is as clean as poss, and that the mare has been in that place for a good week or two, this allows her to produce antibodies to pathogens in that immediate environment, these are passed to foal and foal is protected better
[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Although I would say aim for having the mare in the foaling location for around 30 days before foaling if possible.
[ QUOTE ]
I foal anywhere upto 100 a year and have always always used green spray (engemycin - oxytetracycline)
[/ QUOTE ]
The spray is fine, of course. My reasons for recommending chlorohex' over it are:
*The sprays are heavily coloured, and so "look" like they're lasting a long time, and put people off making regular applications, whereas the antibiotic action is actually fairly short-lived.
*Oxytetracycline (the antibiotic in Engemycin) may not be effective against the worst offending bacteria. For instance, E.Coli is resistant to the tetracyclines.
Ischa - I think the reason the vets are still recommending iodine, is because there isn't a huge amount of literature out there on treating foal's umbilical stumps, and the literature that is present hasn't filtered through to the vets yet who already have enough on their plates trying to keep up with every other aspect of equine medicine
mike1210
Member
To say that fairly straight forward stuff hasnt filtered through to vets is a little bit presumptive.
Iodine is a good antiseptic. Any bad experience has usually been due to high concentrations. As previoulsy stated.
The fact that the colour of the spray remains, the actice substance does stay active for some time, unless of course the naval is being contaminated i.e. faecal matter, moisture etc and then the substance is used, up. I have never applied this and thought that as long as i could see green it was working. That point is obviously a point that is covered by ensuring clear communication between vet or who ever and the person overseeing the care of the foal in the post partum period.
My expericence is that although e.coli has been shown to failry resistant to various tetracycline drugs, this has been in the face of clinical infection, usually with a high tissue penetration by the bacteria. In such cases tetracycline would be a poor choice. The topical use of this type of chemical as a bacteriostatic i think is justified, as e.coli is only really in high concentrations in faecal matter, hence if the naval was being contaminated that heavily then washing, with chlorhexidine would be suitable, but that does not preclude the importance of reducing potential pathogen load in the environment.
Iodine is a good antiseptic. Any bad experience has usually been due to high concentrations. As previoulsy stated.
The fact that the colour of the spray remains, the actice substance does stay active for some time, unless of course the naval is being contaminated i.e. faecal matter, moisture etc and then the substance is used, up. I have never applied this and thought that as long as i could see green it was working. That point is obviously a point that is covered by ensuring clear communication between vet or who ever and the person overseeing the care of the foal in the post partum period.
My expericence is that although e.coli has been shown to failry resistant to various tetracycline drugs, this has been in the face of clinical infection, usually with a high tissue penetration by the bacteria. In such cases tetracycline would be a poor choice. The topical use of this type of chemical as a bacteriostatic i think is justified, as e.coli is only really in high concentrations in faecal matter, hence if the naval was being contaminated that heavily then washing, with chlorhexidine would be suitable, but that does not preclude the importance of reducing potential pathogen load in the environment.
Maggie2
Well-Known Member
I have also read that iodine *can* dry the stump up so well that it can crack, thus allowing passage of undesirable material into it.
CrazyMare
Well-Known Member
When asked nicely, my vet gave me the mix he uses on his own foals - judging from the colour it was based on clorohexidine. Always worth being nice to the vets who are also breeders themselves.
I'm a great believer in nature though, so making sure foalie got the colostrum, and mare had the right antibodies for her environment were high up my list.
Are you having another foalie then Spyda!?
I'm a great believer in nature though, so making sure foalie got the colostrum, and mare had the right antibodies for her environment were high up my list.
Are you having another foalie then Spyda!?
Nailed
Well-Known Member
Having calved more than foal we always used Iodine to great effect..
Lou x
Lou x
S_N
Well-Known Member
QR - Iodine is old school.
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Hi, yes!!!! Another baby due in March! A guaranteed coloured one this time. Fingers are crossed for another filly!
Our 2007 filly was foaled down at stud as the mare was a maiden and likely to have a difficult birth (due to placental abruption problems starting at 4 months gestation), so this one will be our first 'at home' birth for quite a while. We foaled the dam at home but that was 10 years ago and I honestly cannot remember what we used then. Purple spray, if I recall.
Would this be suitable to use on the stump?
Hydrex Pink
Our 2007 filly was foaled down at stud as the mare was a maiden and likely to have a difficult birth (due to placental abruption problems starting at 4 months gestation), so this one will be our first 'at home' birth for quite a while. We foaled the dam at home but that was 10 years ago and I honestly cannot remember what we used then. Purple spray, if I recall.
Would this be suitable to use on the stump?
Hydrex Pink
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
That looks perfect
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Brill! Thanks. Have this in my medical box!
How many applications would you recommend? A couple of times a day, say a.m. and again p.m.? Or more, or less?
It's an early foal so I'd expect dam and foal to be spending a fair amount of time in initially, stabled on straw. Before foaling I disinfect the stable, lay a good layer of Stable Zone powder down under the new straw bed; then once foaled, I generally skip out around them for the first week or two, and keep the bed deep-littered but topped up with lots of fresh straw.
How many applications would you recommend? A couple of times a day, say a.m. and again p.m.? Or more, or less?
It's an early foal so I'd expect dam and foal to be spending a fair amount of time in initially, stabled on straw. Before foaling I disinfect the stable, lay a good layer of Stable Zone powder down under the new straw bed; then once foaled, I generally skip out around them for the first week or two, and keep the bed deep-littered but topped up with lots of fresh straw.
AndyPandy
Well-Known Member
I would go for applications 3-4 times a day for the first 2-3 days.
HTH
HTH
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Most appreciated. Thanks