What's the fairest way to charge liveries for haylage?

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chocolategirl

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As the title suggests, I am trying to decide what is the fairest way to charge for haylage. We have made it this year for the first time, we usually only make hay. We had to pay a contractor to bale and wrap as we only have a conventional baler so that cost has to be factored in to the return. Our hay is £4 per bale and we get 3/4 large nets out of 1 bale. Our horse live out 24/7 from April to end of October weather permitting so I don't think charging an all round price is an option and as the bales are very large ( min 12 conventional per bale) I am trying to come up with a fair system so that haylage is an option even if you only have 1 horse. The only way I can see this working is to charge by the net. I would have 2 different sizes (supplied by me) Is this something any of you do or is the system you have on your yard? Does it work or is there a better, fairer way? How much do you pay?

I should maybe also add that we are an assisted DIY yard charging £24/25 per week for fab facilities and all year turnout, daily turnout in winter. I don' t know if this is a factor or not but I guess what I am trying to get across is that I think our liveries get very good value for money here and the sale of hay, straw, services etc., is where we make our money. If I can't make the sale of haylage worthwhile, we won't do it again next year which I know some of my liveries will be disappointed about as they have been using the wright pack bales upto now at a cost of £6 per bale. Any suggestions on how to make this work? Sorry for long post!!
 
Could those with just one horse double up and half the cost of a big bale? Might be easier than working out the cost of a net as assuming people will feed different amounts?
I've got two myself and my YO makes his own which I buy off him at £30 which lasts my two big boys about two weeks and doesn't spoil in that time.
 
Could you charge by weight?

If you trust your liveries to write it down you could just put a board and scales up in the hay barn, they could weigh their nets and then at the end you can add up everyone's usage for that month and charge them? Some people fill their haynets really full and some fill quite loosely so would be the absolute fairest way but a faff. Otherwise I think your two hay net system sounds fine as well to be honest. I am a livery and I would be happy to go along with either if it meant I could feed my one horse haylage. You sound like a very nice YO :)
 
We buy our own large round bales of hay which our YO supplies, but I know of some yards who charge £1 a net, as long as all the nets are the same size, the other idea is can some of your liveries who use a similar amount buy a whole bale from you and share it, if you have enough storage that is.
 
Not sure if I have read your post properly, but are you intending to supply the nets? Just thinking this could work out quite expensive as some horses trash them quite quickly. I bag my haylage up (to put out in the field) and use old plastic feed bags - people could then transfer to their own nets.
 
this could work out very troublesome, i have done the weighing out every net and written it down, the other 2 sharing the bale took the mick out of me! they said there 16.2hh and 13.2hh were eating less that my 15.2 on his own - he is very rotund and not on adlib unlike the other 2.
The yard I am on at the minute charges 2 different rates one for those that use a lot and those that use less, but it is very cheap £6 and £7 per week.
I buy the small bales in the summer to take to shows and that is £6.50 per bale.
Ideally its best to get throught the hayledge quicker rather than slower, so it would be best to get everybody using the same bale at once.
It seems to me a per horse charge would be best and be careful the liveries don't start wasting the hayledge. You could put a note up from the start saying this is the price, but if it starts getting wasted/ abused/ thrown on the muck heap then the price may go up.
I know another yard owner who does straw was included in his basic price and he has just given up as he was completely fed up with the muck heap being full of clean straw!
I also think it will be very time consuming filling nets for you!
 
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We pay £2 a net for 16lbs! The yard take the nets in the night before and leave them ready made at your shed. Or £17 a week ad-lib. They also sell the bales (the huge round ones) for £40 which most people do and share between groups of friends. I suspect one of the last two options would be easiest for you. I wouldn't charge different amounts for different weights. I'd fix a price/weight if you choose to go down that route and liveries can then double up or split up nets as needed. One rule for all saves a lot of moaning!
 
At my yard we get into groups and share a big bale. It's up to us who we share with and how we work out the costs. You do need to have enough places to store big bales though for that to work out.
 
Yes I would supply the nets initially, 2 different sizes on the understanding that if the did trash them, the client would replace it then with one the same. I doubt this will be a problem though as our horses spend very little time in the stable, even in winter no matter what the weather, they are out all day every day. I was thinking £1 for a standard size net and £1.50 for a large net. I still don't know if this will work as not having used haylage before, I won't know how many nets I will get from a large bale until we try it? Think it's going to be a bit trial and error tbh at first. What I really want to avoid though is ad lib as I know from when I was a livery years ago this is very much open to abuse and I will suddenly find that a horse that has been on the yard for years surviving quite happily on 1 standard size net per night will suddenly and for no apparent reason then require 2 large ones! I don't want to end up resenting my clients, but likewise, I want them to feel they are still getting good value for money. Maybe I am over thinking this too much? Some YO seem to be able to get away with the most horrendous behaviour and liveries just put up with it. I am not one of them!
 
Where I am we have a system where there is scales and a book in the hay barn and we weigh what we have and write it down by our name in the book for the month and then it's added to our bills, hay is 21p a kilo and haylage is 23p we also pay £25 per week with great facilities and our horses can be out 24/7 is summer if we like, our bedding is 7.50 a bag (shavings)
 
We used to charge £10 on top of the livery all year round for horses on our DIY yard. It averaged out over summer and winter - they used more than the cost in winter, but less in summer.. People did used to waste a bit at first, but when reminded, didn't, or we put the stuff on the floor out in the field to be eaten in winter.

I wouldn't want the hassle of filling nets for everyone. Its one of my least fave jobs!
 
My friend has a yard they charge £ 45 for DIY with straw and haylage there's a lot of wasteage of haylage and some very very fat horses on the yard she's looked at every way of doing and has decided this is lesser of all the evils .
She charges the same winter and summer as they manage the grazing so that costs she full so it's not putting any one off.
 
We pay £10 a week for ad lib which works pretty well for us. People dont tend to take the mick on my yard and asthe bales are in a barn any on the floor doesnt get wasted. The yo simply doesnt put another bale out the until its all used up
 
I can understand you wanting to know what the nets weigh and ensure nobody is taking the Mick, but it will be pretty time consuming filling the nets for you, how many horse do you have on there?
If it takes you an hour even at mimimum wage its more money that needs recouping!
Do you know how much a bale weighs? if so you can work out how many haynets you will get out of it.
 
Thank you jesstickle I like to think so! I am thinking the 2 net system could be the way to go as then if you only have a small horse 1 standard net would probably do, or if you have a really big horse either 2 standard nets or 1 large net depending on how cold it is at the time? As long as I can get my money back on the cost of making it plus some profit I will be happy and I hope my clients will be too! The ones that have been buying the haylage in are especially pleased as they won't have to go and get it and it should hopefully work out a bit cheaper for them.
 
I won't be filling the nets my clients will do that. They will choose on a daily basis what size net they want and can fill it with as much as they can get in it for a set price. We have 16 liveries but I would estimate that only half of them will actually use haylage as it will be too rich for most of the horses. This is also why I'm not sure a sharing system would work as they will all need very different amounts. I know my liveries and their horse very well as most have been here over 5 years
 
In winter I pay £12 per week for haylage for large horse and stable is £16 per week.
YO charges in height bands so you pay less if your horse/pony is smaller.
I think 16hh+ is £12, 14hh+ is £10 and anything less is £8?
I can't fully remember!
 
Yes this my concern as we have a few that don't do any work at all (retired through age or injury) , but I know from experience that if you charge an all in price as has happened on yards where I have been a livery, people seem determined to 'get their money's worth' shall we say! Regardless of the risk they are putting their horse at by over feeding. The more I think about it, I think the 'pay as you go' system is going to be the fairest and the least likely to be open to abuse. Would anyone disagree with me on that? Have I maybe missed something? Thank you for all the helpful replies so far!
 
I think I would charge per week/ month. I would charge £25 for ponies and £40 for horses on a monthly basis. We would go through a large square bale in 3-5 days with 6 horses and a pony. A bale here costs £35-40 depending on supplier so I'd work out your costs, add some margin and divide.
 
Honestly, I would just make them weigh their nets. They should be doing it anyway from a management POV so not too much of an ask and then you know no one is going to come to you whining as it is actually split exactly on what is used!
 
When I did livery I only charged for haylage over the winter, as like yours, they had enough grass to sustain living out 24/7 in summer, and if needed to bring in or have nets for shows etc, had to buy in their own small bales.

Our bales were huge and lasted 4 horses approx 1-2 weeks, so would take the price of the bale and divide the charge accordingly ie a bale costing £30 divided into 4 horses equalled £7.50 per week. Some weeks liveries used less, but others more (when they had limited turnout due to snow etc), so balanced out over the winter.

Therefore from April - Oct the diy's paid £25 per week, and in winter £32.50, and had no complaints. As I had generally trustworthy liveries no one took advantage and asking them to weigh would have been a right pita - just makes more work for the yard owner.

Hope that helps!
 
Assuming all will be using it at the same time then split it by the no of horses so if a livery has two horses they are paying their share for two and if a livery has one horse they are paying their share for one, you cant divide it by the no of liveries only otherwise those with only one horse would be supplementing those with two, does that make sense. You cant get liveries weighing their nets or writing down how many they had, gets too complicated.
 
The yard I'm soon to move to charges a very reasonable £25 a week which includes straw! If you use the haylage (that they make themselves) you pay £4 a bale however they have large round bales so you just work out the equivalent. For example, my girl only eats a bale or 2 week in summer (when there's no grass) and in winter maybe 2 and a half bales a week-So I'll pay £35 a week. :)
 
I get charged another £40 on top of my livery per month for 6 kilos of hay a night and another 6 during they day if they are in in the winter.

So maybe just charge extra on the livery for each month that they want to use the haylage and dont charge the extra in the summer.
 
The yard i have just left charged:
£12.50/wk in the winter for haylage morning and night (trusted individual to make up net to suit their horse)
£1 per net of Hay in the summer - too many were living out 24/7 and the big bales of haylage would have been wasted with not enough to eat them
They just ran a tick-chart in the summer and you ticked morning & night when you had hay
 
On the yard im on we pay 35 a week all year round, for all year turnout on excellent grazing (don't need haylage in summer unless in for show), we have outdoor off road riding and use of gallop only one day a week when race horses don't need it.
It averages out over the year- my boy would get through a round bale in a week in deep winter and they work out at 40 a bale, i don't think its bad price.
 
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