What's the issue?

[Pmf27]

If a pony can be stopped using bit and reins when in hand, but charges ahead when being ridden regardless of pressure on bit - what's going wrong?

I don't want to bit up, because it's clearly adequate for stopping as she will listen to the command when in hand, but just ignores a "STOP" aid when ridden.

For reference, have tried on and off rein pressure - i.e. short and sharp - and that does nothing. Constant pressure, nothing. Firm voice command, nothing. Using seat in combination with above, nothing.

Edit to add: this is not a constant issue. She will stop in the school with no issues. But when out and about she sometimes decides "nah" and won't stop when asked.

 

[ponynutz]

I've got to be honest up until the last point I wasn't sure and was going to leave it to others to answer.
But that it's sometimes, when you're out and about, and when she decides it really does sound like she's just taking the michael a little bit.
Of course if you're worried get the usual checks done (saddle, bridle, get vet to check back, teeth, and a brief look for ulcers) but I think this might be a behavioural issue.

 

[Melody Grey]

I would say it’s her confidence in you- sounds like she’s more confident with you beside her on the floor but doesn’t hold the same level of confidence with you mounted, hence is running out of fear? I don’t know how long you’ve had her, but some of mine have taken quite a while to feel as confident with me mounted, especially out and about where there are more triggers for getting scared than in the school.

 

[Pmf27]

I've got to be honest up until the last point I wasn't sure and was going to leave it to others to answer.
But that it's sometimes, when you're out and about, and when she decides it really does sound like she's just taking the michael a little bit.
Of course if you're worried get the usual checks done (saddle, bridle, get vet to check back, teeth, and a brief look for ulcers) but I think this might be a behavioural issue.

Thank you, this is what my instructor thinks as well. I had thought that, if that were the case, she'd also be a bit naughty in the school but she is so much better behaved there!

 

[Pmf27]

I would say it’s her confidence in you- sounds like she’s more confident with you beside her on the floor but doesn’t hold the same level of confidence with you mounted, hence is running out of fear? I don’t know how long you’ve had her, but some of mine have taken quite a while to feel confident with me mounted, especially out and about where there are more triggers for getting scared than in the school.

Yes I did also wonder this. I've been loaning here for a few months and we seem to have developed a strong bond, particularly when I'm on the ground with her. She's very relaxed around me and enjoys being fussed (will happily nod off while I'm stroking her face, for example).

In the school with me she is actually much better behaved when we're alone and I find it much easier to get work out of her, but when we are hacking out alone she is nappy (I posted another thread on this not long ago).

I've stopped taking her out for the time being as she has always had a tendency to want to dash off into the road, so it is simply not safe to take her anywhere that requires roadwork. But I really want to crack this and I'm not sure how if she is so good in the school? I'm laying the foundations there really well, but it all goes out the window when we head out (even if we're not on the roads).

 

[ponynutz]

Thank you, this is what my instructor thinks as well. I had thought that, if that were the case, she'd also be a bit naughty in the school but she is so much better behaved there!

I often wonder if some horses associate the school with work and so she knows her job and gets her head down so to speak. But then out and about it's a bit of a 'FREEDOM' issue.
Talk to your instructor, I'm by no means an internet trainer and they'll know you and pony much better, but if it were me I'd probably school a little bit out hacking or even just in a field to try and switch that mindset slightly.

 

[Melody Grey]

Yes I did also wonder this. I've been loaning here for a few months and we seem to have developed a strong bond, particularly when I'm on the ground with her. She's very relaxed around me and enjoys being fussed (will happily nod off while I'm stroking her face, for example).

In the school with me she is actually much better behaved when we're alone and I find it much easier to get work out of her, but when we are hacking out alone she is nappy (I posted another thread on this not long ago).

I've stopped taking her out for the time being as she has always had a tendency to want to dash off into the road, so it is simply not safe to take her anywhere that requires roadwork. But I really want to crack this and I'm not sure how if she is so good in the school? I'm laying the foundations there really well, but it all goes out the window when we head out (even if we're not on the roads).

Sounds like she’s worried about being out. I’d spend some time doing your hacks in hand, assuming you’ve got enough control? Short and sweet, cuticular routes and build up from there. A steady nanny horse could also be useful if you have one available, though don’t get too dependent in the longer term if it’s solo hacking you’re trying to achieve?

ETA: sounds like a new partnership that needs time.

 

[Tarragon]

Ok, so she obviously understands the aid and knows what is needed, but is choosing to ignore it when it suits her. I have a pony that is as good as gold when ridden on his own, responsive, brave and obedient, but when ridden in company will do whatever the company does, so if they shy, he shies, if they are hesitant, he is hesitant, if they snort, he snorts... he obviously thinks that his herd instinct is stronger than whatever relationship he has with me! I am pretty sure it is a matter of confidence.
Edited to add - how much in hand work do you do out of the school? Long reining?

 

[phizz4]

As a teacher, I would often say, at Parent's Evenings, how well behaved and attentive pupil x is in class, to which the parent would reply something along the lines of 'well they aren't at home' or' I wish they were at home'. That always struck me as being a discipline and routine related issue (or a lack of). I wonder if that applies to our horses? If I ride my mare on a hack after a week or so off I have to 're-educate her to my voice aids as she has a tendency to want to do her own thing until she is reminded who is in charge. Just a few thoughts.

 

[irishdraft]

Sounds like lack of confidence out hacking, whereas the school is a safer/ not so much going on environment, possibly you are more relaxed there as well.I have a new mare who is not confident hacking alone yet and her go to is head up and rush off. So what I'm doing is I repeat short hacks until she's confident and then I'll add a small new bit on and repeat. Also I'll go in to the school first for 10 /20 mins and get her listening and then go on a short hack and gradually build up. For me I have to hack alone as noone to ride with so have to quietly persist.

 

[AntiPuck]

My horse also used to run through the bit when hacking - I put this down to trigger stacking - she was stressed about being out alone, anyway, then the pressure of the bit on her mouth caused discomfort that she naturally wanted to get away from.

I switched her to bitless, a few months ago, and even in a big run-sideways-at-speed spook, she doesn't run through the nose pressure in the same way and is quicker to calm down. I feel this has played a significant role in her gaining confidence hacking alone, but I have also had to build up to longer hack durations and new routes slowly to help her get used to it.

 

[Fred66]

To me this sounds like behavioral issues and respect. She responds to the bit and aids when either it suits her or she is in a familiar place and routine. However she is not respecting you when she is out, I would be tempted to experiment with alternate bits when hacking to see if her behavior can be managed in that way. A stronger bit used correctly is far kinder than constantly pulling at her mouth with a snaffle.

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Not sure if this will work for you but I schooled mine in a small field then a larger field (finally a huge field!) to get him used to being outside the school but not associate grass and space with a 'yee hah'. He is hoof perfect now.

 

[Pmf27]

Not sure if this will work for you but I schooled mine in a small field then a larger field (finally a huge field!) to get him used to being outside the school but not associate grass and space with a 'yee hah'. He is hoof perfect now.

That's a really good idea, we do have access to a few private fields so that could work!

I did a very brief schooling session (if you can even call it that) in one the other day, just walking and trotting around, a couple of circles and then headed back to the actual school - I'll try this again next time!

 

[Pmf27]

To me this sounds like behavioral issues and respect. She responds to the bit and aids when either it suits her or she is in a familiar place and routine. However she is not respecting you when she is out, I would be tempted to experiment with alternate bits when hacking to see if her behavior can be managed in that way. A stronger bit used correctly is far kinder than constantly pulling at her mouth with a snaffle.

She is already in quite a strong bit (not my decision) so I'd not feel comfortable bitting up. I don't feel that I am experienced enough to use a firmer bit than she is currently in, so would refuse to ride if her owners put her in anything stronger.

 

[Pmf27]

Sounds like she’s worried about being out. I’d spend some time doing your hacks in hand, assuming you’ve got enough control? Short and sweet, cuticular routes and build up from there. A steady nanny horse could also be useful if you have one available, though don’t get too dependent in the longer term if it’s solo hacking you’re trying to achieve?

ETA: sounds like a new partnership that needs time.

Thank you, I've been meaning to try some more in-hand hacks to deal with the napping issue, so will work on this.

I'm currently trying to find some short circular routes around us, as we don't often get a chance to hack with others so it is important to me that we crack the issue!

 

[Pmf27]

Ok, so she obviously understands the aid and knows what is needed, but is choosing to ignore it when it suits her. I have a pony that is as good as gold when ridden on his own, responsive, brave and obedient, but when ridden in company will do whatever the company does, so if they shy, he shies, if they are hesitant, he is hesitant, if they snort, he snorts... he obviously thinks that his herd instinct is stronger than whatever relationship he has with me! I am pretty sure it is a matter of confidence.
Edited to add - how much in hand work do you do out of the school? Long reining?

Not enough tbh, I had done a few in-hand walks before but then started solo hacking her as I felt that she was showing signs of being confident enough.

I'll go right back to basics and do more in hand work!

 

[Lyle]

You cpuld try to look up teaching the one rein stop. This starts usually on the ground in a halter/bit then in the saddle, getting them flexing well. Then gradually build up stopping in various paces, starting at walk. When hacking, if she ignores the conventional stop aid, you could then apply the one rein stop. Lots of slow and steady work in an open space.

 

[littleshetland]

Find a piece of flat ground when you're part of the way round on a hack and try some schooling?

 

[ester]

Are you leading her or long reining when hacking in hand?

 

[Pmf27]

Are you leading her or long reining when hacking in hand?

Just leading her using her bridle

 

[Pmf27]

Find a piece of flat ground when you're part of the way round on a hack and try some schooling?

That's a good idea, I'd not thought of that! Thanks

 

[ester]

I'd def try her on long reins then as it seems positioning may make quite a difference to her (somewhere secure initially!)

 

[Pmf27]

I'd def try her on long reins then as it seems positioning may make quite a difference to her (somewhere secure initially!)

Thank you, I'll look into this and give it a go!

 

[maya2008]

So it’s spooking/napping, rather than just getting too excitable and taking a hold? Does the pony hack confidently with the owner?

 

[Ratface]

I also recommend the one rein stop. I have an exuberant, arrogant and much-loved Arabian horse. He can get drunk on speed to a dangerous level. I use the one-rein stop if we're running out of space and hillside!
The other thing that I have found is putting a stirrup leather round his neck and pulling that first, which will sometimes slow the lunatic need for speed.
I learnt very early on to feed as plain as possible. Look at the ingredients in your horse's feed. Mine, now aged 30, only has ad lib old hay, is bedded on straw and has two feeds of basic chop, senior balancer, linseed and a small handful of basic pony nuts. He's turned out with his little mixed herd for at least nine hours a day. He looks fabulous, has an excellent top line and an indestructible "Don't You Know Who I Am??" attitude.

 

[Birker2020]

Could it be the surface?
Does she find the walking on the roads uncomfortable, maybe joint pain, concussion on sore coffin joints maybe?
If she is different on the road and taking a pull it might be because it hurts. Just a thought.

 

[Melody Grey]

Could it be the surface?
Does she find the walking on the roads uncomfortable, maybe joint pain, concussion on sore coffin joints maybe?
If she is different on the road and taking a pull it might be because it hurts. Just a thought.

Or footsore?

 

[Birker2020]

Or footsore?

Yes possible bruised sole/thin soles. Weird she's ok in the school.