What's wrong with him?

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equestriansports

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Just lately every time I've ridden my horse he has really played up. Back, teeth, tack ect checked and all fine. Every time I take him in the school at about 6pm (with lights) he will spook/nap at this same tree. I'm not so sure it's the tree, rather him napping to the gate but onlookers believe it's the tree. I came off last night because in walk on a loose rein, completely relaxed, he leaped forward, reared and span in the other direction - queue me flying out the side door and him galloping around like a complete nutter. I have no clue whats started causing this. He has a small amount of soft and soak and a small amount of chaff, one massive net of haylage for overnight, turnout by day. He's had about two weeks off because the last time I rode him, I came off. He was fresh and is a very 'looky' horse. He doesn't spook as such, just takes a good look. I'm really starting to think I over horsed myself but selling him really isn't an option. Any advice? Last night was his first night back in a flash (as the YO keeps suggesting) as he opens his mouth and crosses his jaw and twists his neck. He was very headshake-y and funny with his mouth last night. It's an old habit he has which I'm trying to sort out - when I'm not eating sand! He has, since I've had him, been very fussy with his mouth. He came in a sweet iron copper roller bradoon, then was changed into a dutch gag, then a continental gag with a french link and now an eggbutt french link though I can't tell if it's a Dr. Bristol. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Could it be eyesight that's the issue?, is this the first time he has been ridden at night with arena lights? I would try in daylight to see how behaves.
 
Presume you've had a dentist to check for rogue wolf teeth or sharp edges?

If all fine you could consider a bitless bridle. Can you lunge in a cavasson and see if he is less headshakey?

My girl is looky in the darker areas of the school, it's because she is more alert as what is outside is more visible. I'm lucky tho, she doesn't chuck me! Could you long line past the scary tree? More control on the ground. It might be a smell as well, foxes etc, he might not like that.
 
You said his back had been checked, when was that? I had a very similar problem a few weeks ago. My little horse spooked five times within a half hour period in the school. He would shoot forward, no warning and try and bomb around the school. Shook me up a bit. He had done it a few times before but never like that. He also did it with his trainer. He had been check a few weeks before and was fine, so I didn't think it was pain. His trainer insisted it was so I had the chiro vet out and he had indeed hurt his back. If he tree checks out, I would then have his back checked again just in case.
 
He's been ridden in the dark before, all was fine albeit quite 'hot'. He's a naturally nappy horse. It's not really a tree, it's pretty small, no leaves, only about 5 foot high. In daylight he's normally golden. Always good to hack but still likes a good look. I was going to consider a bitless bridle but rode him in a grackle when he had the dutch gag, he hated either of them or the combination. He'd bounce rear and throw his head. Had dentist come about three months ago, old YO had filed his teeth w/o my permission and left them extremely sharp to the point where his mouth was ulcerated and he had built up muscle on one side of his face from chewing funny. Physio came shortly after, very very sore through poll, sore back, sore neck. All is now sorted and really is just habit. He has a lovely nature on the ground and is a proper gentleman. He's good to be ridden otherwise the issues mentioned. I don't know if it's my riding, his behaviour, anything.
Edit; he's ridden in the light more than the dark. Generally very good. I do find him quite hard to ride at some points as he is so fussy in his mouth.
 
My fussy in his mouth horse really likes his Micklem bridle, with the noseband done up pretty loosely.
He also has a Myler-type comfort barrel snaffle. His mouth is a lot less busy wearing this than anything else
 
Try a grackle noseband- does sound though as if the problem is in his mouth/ a bitting problem as poll/neck/back pain could be due to him throwing his head about, why did you change the bit when he first arrived? Was it just the YO decision(who seems to have a lot of input in what you ride YOUR horse in!!!)? Why not try the original bit with a grackle? Or the new bit with a grackle if he is comfy in his mouth? He obviously hates the flash!!!!
 
You say the bit may be a Dr Bristol that will, if it is one, be putting pressure on his tongue which he may well be unhappy with, they are not the kindest bits especially for a fussy horse, I would be trying something as mild as possible that is also as still as possible, a full cheek may help or a mullen mouth, my fussy horse that headshakes is now in a mullen mouth Nathe with full cheeks and a Micklem bridle and he has settled much better.
You have a couple of issues, which may be related, the fussing and the spooking they really need to be dealt with separately to get him working with you, first find a bit he is happier in, then work at him keeping him more focussed on you, he is probably taking the p*** at the tree, it may have spooked him once or twice now it is becoming an excuse as he is not listening due to the fussing, sort one the other will improve.
If he is a true headshaker he may be very uncomfortable with any noseband putting pressure on the nerves, try a loose cavesson and a nosenet and see if that helps, mine is always in a nosenet apart from mid winter when he does get better as there is less pollen around.
 
serenityjane said:
Try a grackle noseband- does sound though as if the problem is in his mouth/ a bitting problem as poll/neck/back pain could be due to him throwing his head about, why did you change the bit when he first arrived? Was it just the YO decision(who seems to have a lot of input in what you ride YOUR horse in!!!)? Why not try the original bit with a grackle? Or the new bit with a grackle if he is comfy in his mouth? He obviously hates the flash!!!!
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Old YO was very much in control (unwanted!) as he is my first horse, only loaned one before him so was very aaahh about things. She just basically did what she wanted with him and I couldn't work up the courage to stop her. Thankfully off that yard now though. I'm going to be moving yards in a few weeks - nothing I can control sadly. New yard has an indoor so will try riding him in there once my shoulder has healed - torn muscle! I think it's a combination of things if I were to guess. The school isn't amazingly well lit up, only normal lights down one side, other where the tree is, has non. Will try a bitless bridle amongst other things, he is very strong though, any recommendations? Was going to try a drop and will try the grackle. In the grackle he would constantly lean against it simply because it was there to stop him. Think it's really just going to be trial and error with him.
 
be positive said:
You say the bit may be a Dr Bristol that will, if it is one, be putting pressure on his tongue which he may well be unhappy with, they are not the kindest bits especially for a fussy horse, I would be trying something as mild as possible that is also as still as possible, a full cheek may help or a mullen mouth, my fussy horse that headshakes is now in a mullen mouth Nathe with full cheeks and a Micklem bridle and he has settled much better.
You have a couple of issues, which may be related, the fussing and the spooking they really need to be dealt with separately to get him working with you, first find a bit he is happier in, then work at him keeping him more focussed on you, he is probably taking the p*** at the tree, it may have spooked him once or twice now it is becoming an excuse as he is not listening due to the fussing, sort one the other will improve.
If he is a true headshaker he may be very uncomfortable with any noseband putting pressure on the nerves, try a loose cavesson and a nosenet and see if that helps, mine is always in a nosenet apart from mid winter when he does get better as there is less pollen around.
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Thank you, really good advice there - along with everyone elses. Definitely all things to try. I have no clue which way to turn with him re bits. I've read that Dr.Bristols aren't the nicest so any bits anyone could suggest would be a huge help - pref available from a bit bank or something as if not I'm going to spend thousands on bits! haha
 
Bloody hell your horse has been through the wars big time. If he were mine and to get his confidence back, go back to a mild bit and just hack him out if you can, no schooling or jumping just get to know each other again. Owning a horse is surpose to be about enjoyment and neither you or your horse are getting that.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Bloody hell your horse has been through the wars big time. If he were mine and to get his confidence back, go back to a mild bit and just hack him out if you can, no schooling or jumping just get to know each other again. Owning a horse is surpose to be about enjoyment and neither you or your horse are getting that.
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The yard we are moving to has great hacking so will give that a good go. Novice question: How do I tell what type of mouth he has? Lips wise and such. I don't know whether to get a thick snaffle or a thinner one as I wanted one for lunging anyway and I think it's a good one to have. I think he likes french link, he hated the nutcracker action the single joint had. Or maybe a mullenmouth? Ahhh so many choices!
 
For Bitless, I'd recommend a light rider, you can buy just a noseband, which works out quite reasonable.

You could consider trying equifeast cool calm and collected.

You say he's had sore bits. Who has checked him? If you have had just a physio, or a chiro/oesto type, get another type of practitioner to look at him; different sorts seem to pick up on different issues.
 
Not trying to be funny but it could just be the tree. Our mare was fine in the school until she started to spook at one particular spot. It was a long blade of grass, we thought originally it was other things but eventually having ruled out everything else decided it must be the grass. We took her into the school, I pulled up the long piece of grass and walked towards her with it, hoping she would see sense. She backed off big time - no reason that we could think of but once it was removed from her sight she was fine. Weird and made no sense at all - sometimes it is the really odd irrational things that spook horses
 
Have you had his eyes checked? My friend's horse started behaving like this, formerly bombproof, it was cataracts. Particularly bad under lights as horse sees blurry stars and has no focus so it frightens them as they can't see. he head shook and opened his mouth and spun etc as well as staring at things, presumably because he couldn't make out what they were. Vet had to check in a blackened stable with an opthalmoscope. The horse appears to react normally when you wave your hand past his eye. He had no idea there was a problem with his eyes. the vet said that was quite normal as horses rely on the rider and compensate until the vision is too bad. his was jumping BS and winning but that was in daylight.
 
The horse is certainly trying to tell you something - and the good thing is that you are trying to find out what he is saying. Some owners just strap their horses down and refuse to acknowledge that the horse is saying there is a problem.

It does sound as if he could still be uncomfortable in his mouth. It might be worth borrowing different bits, either from a bit bank or from friends to try, to find out which he prefers. Your dentist will be able to tell you about the horse's mouth conformation. The fatter the tongue, the thinner the bit, is a good general rule, although of course every horse is an individual.
 
Re bits - my fussy in the mouth tb goes best (so far!) in Neue Schule eggbutt trans angled lozenge, completely agree its trial and error though for different horses so using a bit bank is a good idea. Agree also to ask your dentist about your horses mouth conformation - mine also had a look at the fit of my bit with the bridle on to check all was ok.
 
Just on the off chance bit of a wild card ! you don't pass any in electric fencing in the area do you ? I have expereienced electricity jumping before once when I was riding horse totally lost the plot & 2nd occassion horse was totally playing up when going through gate when electric turned off horse was a saint. I didn't believe it until I experenced it.
 
Abby-Lou said:
Just on the off chance bit of a wild card ! you don't pass any in electric fencing in the area do you ? I have expereienced electricity jumping before once when I was riding horse totally lost the plot & 2nd occassion horse was totally playing up when going through gate when electric turned off horse was a saint. I didn't believe it until I experenced it.
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All post and rail around the arena. It isn't the best, very small, on a slope. He gets very rushy going up hill. He essentially needs reschooling but I don't know if I'm able to do that.
Will give dentist a call once we get to the new yard (10 days! eek!) and until then I guess he can have some more time off.
Any place where you could sort of rent a micklem? I don't particularly want to spend that much money if he's going to hate it.
Just had another look, you can do a bitless option, how does this work?
 
When you say everything has been checked, who did the checking? If you suspect a physical cause or want to eliminate the possibility of a physical cause for bad behaviour always start with a good equine vet. The eyes are definitely an area the vet could check for you.

If all is well stop listening to YOs and changing bits of tack and instead get a good instructor who can see what is happening a talk you through a solution. In the worst case the horse may need the occasional schooling session by the instructor to help him out.
 
If you wrap the bit round your arm does the link lay flat against it or dig in? You can also hold the bit straight and see if the link looks like this ] (ignore the ends on the brackets!) or is angled like / . Or post a pic ;). It isn't completely inconceivable that it is just the tree/the tree is an excuse.

I think it would be really helpful if you could get yourself some good professional help with schooling, either to ride and/or teach you with him.

you can hire a micklem I think, will google ;)

ta da! http://www.hireamicklembridle.co.uk/
 
Booboos said:
When you say everything has been checked, who did the checking? If you suspect a physical cause or want to eliminate the possibility of a physical cause for bad behaviour always start with a good equine vet. The eyes are definitely an area the vet could check for you.

If all is well stop listening to YOs and changing bits of tack and instead get a good instructor who can see what is happening a talk you through a solution. In the worst case the horse may need the occasional schooling session by the instructor to help him out.
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A physio checked his back, dentist did his teeth, saddle was checked by qualified saddler but when vet came to do his jabs, I asked her to give him a once over and everything appeared fine. Do think it would be a good idea to get vet out to check his eyes, really want to rule everything out before turning to it being his behaviour. At the new yard there is an instructor which I'm going to try once I've been out hacking on him a few times just to build him back up to being used to doing something as it will be a while before I can get back on.
Ester - you brilliant person! Think it will be worth hiring the micklem. I'll post a picture once I've figured out how to do it. How do you upload it?
 
It really does sound like he has been very uncomfortable in his mouth, I think if a horse is fussy in the mouth it generally means they are uncomfortable from teeth or lack of room due to the bit, clamping their mouth shut with a flash is just going to make that worse, I would get the vet out and get them to look in his mouth and if everything is all ok, ask if he has much room for a bit does he have a large fleshy tongue, then try a mild kind of bit that will suit his mouth take the flash off and maybe start having some lessons to help you with his schooling, if his coming into the school fresh lunge him for 15 minutes before you get on to get the sillyness out of him, I have a spooky Arab that will shoot off in the school and his worse if his not really doing much, if I make everything quite hard and keep it busy he does not have time to think about scary corners, I have several different schooling programmes I use and change them all the time, doing lots of serpentines, lots of transitions and changing the rein, If there is a certain area he spooks when your coming up to it make sure you set him up so its difficult for him to do it, lots of inside leg flex his head away from whatever his looking at and ride him forwards.
 
That's a French link not a Dr Bristol, he may not be happy in it for some reason, bitting is very much trial and error there are so may options that it can be tricky to work out where to go next just changing the cheek piece can make a huge difference to some horses, others just accept pretty much anything and go well.
 
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