When a horse fails a vetting

[carthorse]

I was sad to read forget me knots' future horse' failed its vetting and it got me thinking.
Obviously the horse is still for sale and will the seller tell prospective purchasers about the failed vetting or will they let them pay for another vetting.Also ,if you find out that a horse you have vetted has failed before and they didn't tell you ,can you claim the vetting money back off them if it fails again. If it passes with you and you later find out it had failed with someone else and it starts to have a problem can you claim your money back.
I would have thought if a horse fails a vetting it should be declared but I bet it never is.

 

[Shilasdair]

Ethically if your horse fails, you ought to try to treat the problem...if treatable.
You are not obliged, though, to tell any potential buyer about the failed vetting, as 'Caveat Emptor' applies.
I suppose if you were desperate to sell, you'd hope she would pass the next vetting?
I did go to see a horse before, and when I expressed an interest, the owner said, 'Sorry, she's being vetted for someone else on Tuesday, but if she fails, you can have her'.
As if.

S

 

[pennyh]

i'd be intrested in this too as i rcently had a potential purchase fail , first one ever i was gutted , i'd hate to think the owners already knew , especialyy as they were funny about which vet i used

 

[Shilasdair]

Forgot to say, though, that the dealer/seller can't warrant or say she is sound or whatever, if they have been vetted to the contrary....they just don't say anything.
S

 

[AmyMay]

A horse can fail a vetting for any number of reasons - obviously. However, the seller is under no obligation to divulge this information. As the horse only passess or fails that day.

 

[Marbs]

I always look at it as depending on the circumstances.

For instance had the only one of mine sold that failed a vetting not been bought anyway, I wouldn't have told any potential people that it had as what came up at the vetting was all rubbish.

Should a horse fail on something that is a matter of fact (i.e. not an unjustified statement by the vet) that would impact on its welfare or something then it would be the nice thing to do to let people be aware! Not just for their sake but the horse's too.

 

[lastresort]

I bought a horse that had failed his vetting because i knew the horse and knew he was ok, in fact he had a virus which had caused him to fail giving symptoms of a heart murmur and no one knew he had it (didnt display any signs)

I subsequently sold him as he was a head case and it wasnt ment to be !!!!
LOL

Then when he was vetted for my sale he passed 5 stage and i did tell the purchases he failed when i bought him but they didnt care, he passed anyway.

I knew he had failed but i dont think she would have told me if i didnt!

Also my youngster when i had him came with his vetting certificate in his passport from the original purchase with the receipt he didnt mean to leave it in there i dont think but he passed the previous one !!

 

[lastresort]

Just to add also if you have blood taken and something comes up later ie lameness atleast you have that to fall back on to make sure it wasnt on bute or such like. but how many people actually do ??

Anyone had experience of this??

 

[parsley]

I think that as AmyMay has said - the vetting is on the day - not for the future. I had my horse vetted and he failed - the owner kept him for three weeks and I had the problem reassessed by the vet again and he passed. Therefore I would say it depends on what the problem is.

 

[CentrestageSHS]

Hmm now the new way they are starting to vet is changing all of this. Before a horse was vetted regardless of what it' career is going to be. They all had a standard vetting from eventers to hackers. Obviously I think a vet would have been more careful with an expensive eventer than a local show pony. Now a vet asks what the horse is being vetted for and vet's accordingly. So a horse may fail a test for being a 3-day eventer or point to pointer but then may pass a second test for hacking or local small showjumping. Personally I think it is a bit of a farse, the way they now say a horse will never fully pass or fail to cover ther own backs. If I paid a lot of money out I would like a certificate saying the horse is OK!!! I know a vetting is never a guarantee when you buy a horse which is why I don't bother but I know a lot of people who have bought a horse from me can't seem to be able to tell if a horse is generally OK by looking at it, they simply must have it vetted by their own vet even if the horse has already passed with another vet??? It is beyond me but it is them who is wasting their money I guess.
I had a twelve year old horse vetted once and he had had a hard life as a grade A showjumper and done basically everything. We had owned him for 3 years and never had a problem and his competition record showed he had competed most week-end's right up to the week before the lady came to look at him. She wanted him for a schoolmaster and to do a bit of everything on him. She did not want to jump anything over 90cms and this horse had jumped 1.40m classes previously. She paid for a full vetting (which took forever) and he passed. The only query the vet said was that when he came out of the stable his back legs were slightly puffy, which went down as soon as he started working. I agreed with this as his legs did fill up overnight sometimes if he had done a lot of work (the lady knew this I had told her, which is why he was cheaper than he should be also). This did not affect him in any way and he was 100% sound so he passed, the vet said he would just have to put it down though to cover himself. I could have bandaged this horse up overnight and there would have been no swelling but I did not want to hide anything and wanted a proper vetting. Because of this the lady said that she did not want to risk it, which is her choice (although the horse has nver had a day's lameness in his whole life!). I say her last week as she is a client of mine and she wanted me to assess her new horse to see what I think she should do with it. She had gone out and bought a five year old thoroughbred mare that was skittish and frightened of jumps! I could not believe it and then she was complaining that she thinks she has made a mistake and the horse doesn't like her. I felt like banging me head against a brick wall! Not only is she now frightened to death of this horse but she will never compete it, the horse is a nightmare and she paid more for it than my old Grade A schoolmaster who she would have had loads of fun off. She could have just sat their and he would have took her round. She said to me after, it passed the vetting with flying colours and it's legs are perfect. I then explained to her that they should be as this horse had just been broken in and hadn't actually done anything so I wouldn't expect to see anything. Oh dear I was so mad and annoyed and now I have the pleasure of teaching this moron every month and explaining to her why her horse is doing the complete opposite to what she wants!
Now the thing that annoys me even more, I have had a few more people come to look at him, and him is a way better horse then they could ever afford and as soon as they see slight swelling on the vetting, they run away????!!!!! I know he hasn't got perfect legs and I tell them this before they even come to look, do they think I am lying???!! They don't seem to see pass though stamped on the vetting.
We have now had quite a bit of trouble seeling this horse due to the vetting paper and had to drop his price even further. If he hadn't been vetted he would have sold like a hotcake. People seem to overlook a horse that is proven though and go for a youngster that is way too much for them these days??? Nobody seems to want anything over 6?
Sorry this has turned into a rant about selling horses but I think people rely on vetting's too much and should just make their own mind up whether they want the horse or not. So what if it has a few niggle's what horse's don't if you are going to have fun and the horse is going to take you to the next level why pondor over something so simple.

 

[lastresort]

My horse as mentioned was vetted as a show jumper failed !!! Vetted as a hunter Passed!! He was no showjumper and was def a hunter.

They do vet differently agreed so if having a horse vetted i think you need to be sure you have it vetted for what you want it for. Also this could b a whole different issue

Have we started something here??!!

 

[AmyMay]

Phew - that's a long one.....

When I had Thumper vetted two weeks ago - yes my vet asked me what the horse was going to be used for. The horse wasn't passed or failed - my vet doesn't do that - unless obviously there is something seriously amiss.

We discussed at great length after the vetting his outcomes - namely very nice horse, a couple of sortable issues - you couldn't afford it if it didn't have these problems - yes I'm happy for you to take it home - kind of chat.

That works brilliantly for me - of course it woulnd't for everyone.

 

[Magicmillbrook]

I have never had any problems with my vets vetting - perhaps I have a very good vet. With our first ponio he had very slight lameness trotting on hard surface after flexion, as he said - whenever are you going to do that with a childs 1st pony! He also added that if he did that to any of his wifes eventers, the chances are they would be lame - he put that the things found would not affecthis use as a childs 1st ridden ponie. He has vetted four equines for us over the past three years and has always given us a good feedback on the way the horse handles/temp - very useful. Only one failed, however he said it could have been something or nothing, but his gut feeling was that something wasnt right in the hip area and to diagnose it would be exspensive.

I think the problem is people listen to the vet but dont actualy hear what they are saying.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

There is asbsolutely no obligation on the seller to notify any potential buyer that the horse has failed any vetting. The vetting was performed for the potential purchaser alone & no one else. The potential purchaser does not have to divulge to the seller why he does not wish to buy either.

Some people buy a horse on the say so of a vetting that was carried out a couple of weeks before....definately don't, alot can happen to a horse in a couple of weeks.

Plus....just because a horse fails a vetting today does not mean that it will not pass next week. Vetting is like an MOT on a car........it only says the animal was fine on that day, that's all.

 

[lizzie_liz]

Someone at our yard had their horse for sale last year or year before and it failed its vetting. They therefore kept it and it then developed severe laminitis. They then put it up sale again a few weeks again, for £5700. It had done its tendon on 2 legs and red marks on its front feet from laminitis. They have not disclosed it failed its vetting in the past.
It then failed its vetting last week and has since done yet another tendon.
They thought it might fail and were hoping a deaf, blind stupid vet would vet it!

 

[Bossanova]

It probably isnt declared, no. Obviously a vetting is only eligble for the day of the vetting and sometimes horse's will throw up an unlucky problem, like theyve been shod and are a bit footy etc. We've only had one that properly failed and we had him x-rayed and found out he did have the beginnings of navicular. He was never put up for sale after that, unkind to the horse and unkind to potential purchasers.

Last season we did go to look at a horse that the rider openly declared had failed the vet on front foot x-rays. He did have the beginnings of changes but he has a fab competition record, is still jumping well and happy. We decided not to take the risk as he still wasnt cheap!

 

[measles]

A few years ago I sold a lovely Irish mare that I had had vetted in Ireland two months previously and she had a clean vet certificate. I was happy for the purchaser to have any vet she chose to re-vet the horse but was astonished when the local vet she used (not mine obviously) claimed the horse had advanced sidebone and was a roarer.

My own vet came out two hours later and said the horse had neither condition and, thankfully, the purchaser realised that something was amiss. We then sent the horse to the local University vet hospital with the agreement that if the horse was found not to have either condition after xrays and a scope then she would buy the mare, with us both going 50-50 on the cost of the examinations. If the mare failed I would foot the bill.

Needless to say, the mare passed and had a super life with the purchaser. After all this I won't have the vet that she employed initially on my yard to vet a horse I am selling, though any other one in the country is fine for me.

That said..... I sold a pony a few years ago who, the vet said at vetting, had a slight (2mm across) raised area on his sheath which might possibly be a sarcoid. Two seconds with a long nail on my index finger proved it was a bit of dirt, but..... the purchaser didn't go ahead and buy even though he had "passed" the vetting. Another vet I wasn't best pleased with!

Having recounted these stories I do still have faith in vettings but everyone has to realise that there is no such thing as the perfect horse, or, is seems, vet!

 

[burtondog]

The only horse I've ever sold failed it's first vetting. The vet said it was too straight/upright behind (he was Belgium warmblood and some of them can be a bit like that). His conformation certainly didn't affect his soundness but the vet said it 'might' cause problems later on. This was the only comment on the vetting but the buyer decided not to take him because it was her first horse and she wanted to be sure she wouldn't have any problems with whatever she bought. She gave me a copy of the report.

I was torn about whether to tell the next potential buyer about this 'failed' vetting. A number of friends told me I shouldn't and that there was a good chance another vet might not even mention his confirmation. A few days later a couple more people tried him and wanted him. I agreed to sell to the most 'horsey' of them and decided to show the new buyer the previous vet report. They didn't seem to mind, got their own vetting, which he passed and they bought him.

I can't be sure I'd make the same decision if I came up against this problem again. I do feel that some vettings are too picky but at the same time a wouldn't want a buyer to waste money on a vetting which then discovered a problem that I already knew about.

 

[Bossanova]

Lovely little TB we're selling atm has passed the vet twice and both times the people have pulled out. The first time because the vet mentioned one of his front feet was slightly more down at the heel than the other which put purchaser off. The other the vet mentioned he had a funny neigh. Yes, thats right, a funny neigh.

Horse passed full flexions/ ridden work/lunging on hard. Everything.

 

[Halfpass]

I sold a horse last year that failed the first vetting. I lowered the price marginally and was honest with prospectiva purchasers when they called about him. I eventually sold him by letting him go on trial for 4 weeks. Funnily enought just before they handed over the cash they had him vetted and he passed.
Different vet different ideas!!!

 

[KatB]

Also depends what the purchasers state as their use for the horse. Know someone that had a horse sold as a potential 2* horse vetted as "4* potential". The horse failed due to a very small fault which may or may not have caused him a problem at the very highest level of competition (bearing in mind he was sold as a 2*). She backed out, but he was sold a week later for a rider looking for a horse to go intermediate (what he was sold as) and passed the vetting with flying colours.

 

[carthorse]

Once when I was selling a horse the vet said it was a year younger than I did.He said it was 6 and I said 7 [no passport then] They decided he was too young 'WHAT'.He was a super irish horse and we found a lovely home for him .We bought him as a 5 year old and his teeth were correct for his age when we bought him.Their loss,money wise and horse wise

 

[CentrestageSHS]

I hate that when buyers are so picky, don't they realise there has never been a perfect horse yet??!! Buyers seem to be getting worse, I have always bought and sold competition horses and ponies and never had a problem but just lately I havehad more people mess me and my horses about. I'm sure some of them come for sunday afternoon ride on a nice horse and hope to get a bit of instruction while there at it. Aso irritates me when people come to look at a young 4 year old horse and make comments like he's a little bit sharp to the leg or is his mouth ok, he seems a little sensitive? This is after they've just bounced round and yanked him in the gob after a jump which they collapsed on his back when they landed. I almost feel like vetting some people before i Let them on my horse, they looked shocked when I ask them what they have done and what they want to do before I let them near any of my horses for sale! Many of them come and say they want to do british eventing, and so the horse is vetted for this, when you ask them what experiance they have had I have had some amazing ones like, "it's my first horse and I've always wanted to do eventing" or "I have competed at local shows, doing novice showjumping and dressage and now I want to go out and do affilliated eventing".
It kills me, I feel like laughing some of them off the yard as they would struggle to get round trailblazers let alone intro or pre-novice. I love it when you see these people down the line and they are still out doing nothing or very little with their fantastic purchase (usually a ex-racer TB that somebody has bought from doncaster for £500 and sold to them for £4000 a few weeks later, lol) More fool them, I just think but it really irritates me sometimes!!!!!!!!