When box rest is impossible? Please offer opinion.

Thanks mags mum, which vets are you with? I am now thinking that as my horse is content out, i would like my vets to see the field and say whether its too much t/o. I mean this is only the initial rst period! still got a year to go i reckon!
 
if he is more likely to hurt himself in the stable and as bad as he sounds i think you could only have kept him in sedated for a short period and then turned him out and left him rested for about 6months and rescanned the tendon to check it and another 6months rest.

box rest with restricted exercise for 6 months then total field rest for another 6 is ideal but if the horse wont rest in the stable spinning round in small circles all day and being dangerous to handle wont help him!!!!

obviously what you want is some way of making him stay calm and not gallop about and re-injure the leg whilst it heals-tendons do need gentle stretching but a sudden spin round the field can cause a tear or hole again and create alot more scar tissue.

if i was in your position i would have also turned him out-maybe in a field that has been split into several smaller ares by electric fencing so he cant get up alot of speed, with another quiet pal-esp if it worked and he stayed calm(although what he gets up to when no-one is around who knows!!)

long term sedation is far from ideal and has its own problems so i dont think having him sedated for 8 months would have been practical!

my mare gets very stiff and stressed when kept in on box rest-i know shes fine in a small paddock only 4 x the size of her stable and she mooches about in there ok and actually RESTS!so if she ever needed resting again(hers was a tendon too)i would pop her in for thje night and out in the little pen in the day.she stays calm this way and doesnt spend all day walking round and round.
 
Sorry but I'm with those who say box rest is box rest and under no circumstanses would I turn out a horse that is supposed to be resting. I have seen too many people who can't cope with horses' behaviour when box rested or who feel bad for them and they've turned them out too soon and caused massive set backs and sometimes fatal damage. Its just not worth it. Is your horse constantly stressed or only at times? Most settle when there's no-one around and at night. One of the driving ponies I work with has cushings so is often on box rest with mild laminitis. He would box walk all day if I didn't tie him up and let him down at night when its quiet. He also gets hysterical if another horse leaves the barn so you have to lead him out round the corner just while the other goes so he doesn't see it and then put him back in his box. A pain in the backside yes, but he would kill himself if he wasn't managed like this. I doubt your horse stays constantly frantic, and during bursts of exhuberent behaviour tie him up, dope him up, shut him in, distract him, whatever! More often than not people who turn out against the vets' advice regret it.
 
Have just got home from yard, had a good long chat to the YOs about options and what to do and how to go about getting more of a response from the vet. I did initially suggest when he 1st started getting loopy to section of a small field and I will ask again tomorrow.
Thank you.
 
KVS, if my vets had said to me "keep him in, period" then I would have. Everytime Ive asked their op. on the matter they continue to be vague. They agreed that as its the DDFT affected that he should not be making sharp turns, circling or putting excess pressure on the limbs.
He is allowed to be ridden in walk out hacking(I dont want to ride him though) so is allowed to do more than the average tendon injury case and he is staying quiet out. I am paying , asking for the professional advice from the vet and not getting it. I can cope with his behaviour, sadly he cannot and yes the box walking is constant and in a 12x12 that will be detrimental to the legs.
If my vet when asked said to me no, shut him in then I would do that. All I am going on is the vets advice.
 
i will tell you something interesting......a while ago a friend was given a tb type horse that had a similar problem, the vet's advised box rest horse went mental, even on sedalin booted it's box to shite.. my freind had an old mare that had lost it's companion at the time, and was offered broken horse as company, as broken horse wasn't badly lame but certainley not sound either.....broken horse went in with geriatric mare and settled straight away, after the insurance claim was settled on broken horse it was given to my friend, some 18 months passed, and while watching them one day, broken horse was moving like a dream.... now not so broken horse is a lovely hack and low - level dressage horse!! - just goes to show time and patience can be nature's greatest healer.
 
John was my first vet with also Tim, but also had Giles and Sarah, I think KVS it is a bit hard when she has asked her vet and had no response either way, which is why I asked my first question. I agree that most horses seem to get more upset and behave badly when there owners are around and settle when they are not. But she has asked her vets advise and not had a response either way, the devil and the deep blue sea spring to mind.

I have seen things go both ways one a nice TB mare that had to be x tied for 4 months however her owner felt sorry for the mare and gave her more rope than I would, the end result mare laid down and rolled and had to be destroyed, that was totally due to owner mindset than the mare who was quite happy, another that would not settle and spun around, the owner turned away for 18 months on their own land and has been 100% since. There is no clear answer here and I am sorry that Prittsticks vets wont offer more help and advise to her as this must surely be a bad enough time, when you want professional help and support more than anything.
 
I think it depends on the horse. Basically, for soft tissue injuries they need to be kept quiet. If you have a quiet herd situation then in my experience they're better off out, but out 24/7 to minimise any 'wahey' factor when they're first turned out each day. The last two I've had with soft tissue injury, I have discussed their situations in depth with my vet who is not a fan of box rest unless it is absolutely warranted, and my vet, knowing our herd situation, has recommended that they stay out 24/7. The vet even said that even if it takes a bit longer to heal, we'd get a 'better' heal if the horse was able to move about gently in mainly straight lines because it will have healed to allow movement rather than healed in a virtually stationary position. A horse that is throwing itself around its stable, moving in very small circles in its box, and who then goes nuts when it is first turned out again several months later is far more likely to undo any healing that has occurred. It's like doctors no longer recommending bed rest for human bad backs - a degree of movement is good for them.

However, note that if the horse is a complete hooligan in the field then out may not be the best place for it. Likewise a field that is knee deep in bog won't be the best place either. Nor will a large field of ever changing livery horses. So it does depend on your situation.

If you've discussed it with your vets and they haven't been completely horrified and ordered that you get the horse in again, then you're probably OK.

And of course none of my advice above applies if the horse actually needs immobilising - ie the soft tissue injury is so severe that the tendon/ligament is virtually severed or viability of the entire leg is otherwise similarly compromised, or if there are broken bones. But immobilised is to me cross tied/splinted, not 'just' box rested.
 
Have a long story but it isn’t necessary to tell so similar to many of the above. Box rest is fine if your horse can cope if not then a very small paddock or similar is the next best thing. My BO and I agreed that a broodmare I had simply couldn’t cope with extended box rest and it really, due to the amount of weight she lost, took her a year to 18 mths to get over. I’ve never been so embarrassed in my life when I sent that mare back but she really didn’t recover until 6 months after weaning her foal.

Should add she is such a nice mare no nasties or any thing she simply box walk away all of her weight in 2 weeks. I.e. first week you could tell she had lost weight 2nd week she was so ribby I was stunned and mortified.
 
The field is the same size as the large open span barn its next to(so not big at all in field terms, smallenough for me to suggest putting him in it)! , on flat ground and doesnt get poached. I will go down in a bit and ask if I can section 1/3rd off for him for peace of mind.
Golly I would have coped with him Xtied too! Least he wouldnt have been able to move and the poo would be in the same place instead of walked around his bed...
 
All you can do is make an informed decision based on the risks and the situation and do what appears to be the safest option for the horse at the time.

Re long term sedation I think if a horse was being box rested with an injury that absolutely had to be properly box rested and it was seriously risking worsening an already serious injury by throwing itself about the box I would certainly consider long term sedation- of course that would be far from ideal but if the alternative is a further damaged leg potentially to the point of no return then long term sedation IMO would be the lesser of two evils.
 
long term box rest is not absoluntly essential for most tendon injuries-esp if the horse is very quiet with a pal out in a nice flat paddock.
i am with leahurst and they supported my decision to pop my mare into a small paddock rather than sedate her long term in the stable.
 
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long term box rest is not absoluntly essential for most tendon injuries-esp if the horse is very quiet with a pal out in a nice flat paddock.


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I wasn't saying it was- my point was that we can only make decisions for our horses based on the risks and possible consequences and try and choose the lesser of two evils, whichever that may be in the individual circumstances.
 
Well, today I have taken vets advise and turned mine out onto a section of the big field ( about 2 x stable) and next to his friends, so far he is more interested in grazing; He box walks, not too badly during the day when there are people around, but at night. He will have two months field rest now, then see how his ligament is in Feb. Fingers crossed for you and your horse prittstick .
 
Thank you so much for everyone who replied no matter what your opinion was. YO is going to work out if the field can be made smaller. Even if it cant at least I can hay him and his friend to keep them quiet. I am going to send an email to the main vet with all the points made- I get flustered when they come as Im so desperate to do everything right. Hopefully they will spend time and reply.
 
It's a tricky one. IMO a horse that is circling the box, throwing itself about etc is putting a lot of strain on the very thing it is supposed to be resting. And I personally think it's not fair from a psychological perspective to keep a horse like that for months. Personally I would turnout in a larger area and keep watch to see that there are no other neighbouring horses etc that might set your horse off. I think you have done the right thing. Failing that, I am afraid I would sedate the horse if box rest is decided.........unless of course it calms down.
 
I think you've done the best for your horse given the circumstances. At the end of the day you know your own horse and your the one left to nurse them through their ills and injuries.

If its any consolation, when my horse fractured his coffin joint and pedal bone, he had 9 months box rest as it was a tricky and slow healing injury. Thankfully, due to a lot of x rays, physio, homeopathy, magnetic therapy he is now 100% sound. At the time I wondered how the hell he'd cope as a 3 yo three-quarter TB stuck in a box 24/7. He tried to climb the walls initially so I stopped giving him full dose of pain killer as it was the only way I could make him sensible. As well as nursing him, I worked full time so had to do his massage and magnetic therapy in the evenings but paid the livery yard to groom him, spend time with him during the day. He had a window which he could see out into the yard and some company of calves, chickens, cats and my other horse (at night).

What gets me is that, like your vet(s), they diagnose and prescribe treatment but they give very little advice on dealing with the psychology of a horse on box rest. I found out more using the internet and having online chats with some Australian and American vets and other therapists who gave me a lot of helpful info when it came to rehabing. The vets I dealt with were adamant he would never reach soundness and if he did it wouldn't last. 6 years on we're doing dressage and showing. OK I don't jump as too chicken these days.

I think you're doing the right thing with your horse. If I can be of any help then please PM me.

Regards
 
Have'nt read all the replies, but one of the girls on my yard ended up in a similar position, unless her horse was sedated, he went nuts and was really dangerous. He has a fracture to his splint bone. So the vet said they could keep him completely sedated, put him down or she could chuck him out for 2mth and hope he did'nt go stupid - so this is what she has done, and so far so good!
 
I think you have done the best for your horse and you should not feel bad about it. Some horses accept box rest and some do not. The ones that hate it can cause themselves damage even in very small stables, damage which might have been avoided in a field (or not, but there are no guarrantees with horses). Long term use of sedatives causes liver damage so I seriously doubt your vet would have given you a long term prescription. Worse still, even if you keep a lively horse in against all odds, the day will come when the vet will expect you to bring him out and walk him for 15 minutes and, rather predictably, all hell will break loose. I am very reluctant to box rest and prefer to turn out in a small pen, at least the routine is the same and they can eat a bit of grass.
 
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