When do i start to freak out...? Barefoot panic

[Emilieu]

So Deano has been bare all round since Wednesday. He is eating / drinking as normal and seems happy in himself *most* of the time. He seems comfy without boots in the field / on his bed / in the rubber area but is horrible on concrete and especially on stony areas - horrible like a laminitic, swaying and staggering. It is terrible to watch I keep saying to myself that it is to be expected etc etc but i'm worried that it is not to be expected at all and that what I am doing is causing my poor boy pain and ignoring it. So - at what point do I stop thinking that it is his hooves transitioning and start freaking out and getting vet or farrier involved?

 

[pines of rome]

Romeo was like this, which is why he had boots on all the time except when he was in his stable, it took about ten weeks for him to be comfortable enough to leave them off!
Can you boot to lead out to the field if you don,t want to turn out in them?

 

[TwoStroke]

It sounds like he has very weak feet. I would ensure he's never allowed on hard or rough surfaces without boots and pads until he's more comfortable.

 

[putasocinit]

Why dont you paint his soles with iodine for a few days just to help harden them, not on the frogs.

 

[Emilieu]

Romeo was like this, which is why he had boots on all the time except when he was in his stable, it took about ten weeks for him to be comfortable enough to leave them off!
Can you boot to lead out to the field if you don,t want to turn out in them?

Thank you. Yes i can, this is what i have been doing - hoping when our own pair of boots arrive I will be able to turn him out in them as well. We are only talking a matter of steps on the hard ground, yesterday because a boot fell off and this morning after i took boots off and turned him out. Just wanted reassurance that it was due to the removal of the shoes and to be expected!

 

[zandp]

Do you have boots, I'd turn him out in them and have him wearing them on the more difficult surfaces at the beginning ?

And are you leading him in hand on hard surfaces to help him transition ?- you should start with a few minutes walk and then increase time as he gets comfortable. I started with just concrete and then when she was happy on that we started with pebbles/stones underfoot.

I'm assuming you've looked at his feed and he's getting no molasses etc ?

Good luck, it can seem like you're being awful at the begining, but boots and pads can help with that.

 

[Emilieu]

It sounds like he has very weak feet. I would ensure he's never allowed on hard or rough surfaces without boots and pads until he's more comfortable.

Thank you, yes I will do my best. Hopefully our boots will arrive today and make this easier.

Why dont you paint his soles with iodine for a few days just to help harden them, not on the frogs.

I have been painting with Keratex, is iodine better? I can get some if so.

 

[laura_nash]

So - at what point do I stop thinking that it is his hooves transitioning and start freaking out and getting vet or farrier involved?

Given that he is okay on other surfaces and has presumably been in shoes a while it is probably just the initial transition and the vet or farrier wouldn't be much help (if the vets like mine they'll suggest heartbars!). Try not to panic.

That said, you don't want your horse in pain, walking on a surface that hurts doesn't do the hoof any good, and walking like that can be bad for their body generally. Does he have to go over the concrete / stones (can you squeeze around on a verge or something)? If he does have to go on them, boots might well be an option or you could even stick something on temporarily just to get over that area (pads made from camping mats, nappies etc have been employed).

It depends a bit on how much distance we are talking. I regularly walk out to my car barefoot on gravel and its a bit ouchy and I walk funny (unlike my friend from Sri Lanka who strides over it bare), but I don't consider it actually painful or a problem. If I had to walk over ground like that for any length of time, at speed or carrying weight it might be different! If he's walking on it himself when he has the option not too (e.g. in the field) then I would worry less than if he's being led over it.

 

[Scarlett]

Can you keep boots on him for that bit?

Remember that the fact he may not have looked so sore in shoes doesnt mean his feet didnt hurt then too and what you're doing now is fixing the problem, not hiding it. Boots and pads can work wonders and hopefully it wont take long to pass. Mine never took any more than a couple of weeks to be moving far better than they had been in shoes and they had very thin soles.

 

[Emilieu]

Do you have boots, I'd turn him out in them and have him wearing them on the more difficult surfaces at the beginning ?

And are you leading him in hand on hard surfaces to help him transition ?- you should start with a few minutes walk and then increase time as he gets comfortable. I started with just concrete and then when she was happy on that we started with pebbles/stones underfoot.

I'm assuming you've looked at his feed and he's getting no molasses etc ?

Good luck, it can seem like you're being awful at the begining, but boots and pads can help with that.

We have a pair of boots on borrow at the moment which are too wide and come off easily when he overreaches - this and the fact that they do not belong to me makes me reluctant to turn him out wearing them. I will see what ours are like when they arrive but our field has some really boggy bits and can see us losing them very quickly! I led him up and down the drive last night and the night before, it is smooth concrete and we have to walk over a gravel path to get there. I am walking him in boots at the moment - is this right?
He is being fed hifi mollasses free, spillers high fibre nuts, pro balance and brewers yeast.

 

[Emilieu]

Given that he is okay on other surfaces and has presumably been in shoes a while it is probably just the initial transition and the vet or farrier wouldn't be much help (if the vets like mine they'll suggest heartbars!). Try not to panic.

That said, you don't want your horse in pain, walking on a surface that hurts doesn't do the hoof any good, and walking like that can be bad for their body generally. Does he have to go over the concrete / stones (can you squeeze around on a verge or something)? If he does have to go on them, boots might well be an option or you could even stick something on temporarily just to get over that area (pads made from camping mats, nappies etc have been employed).

It depends a bit on how much distance we are talking. I regularly walk out to my car barefoot on gravel and its a bit ouchy and I walk funny (unlike my friend from Sri Lanka who strides over it bare), but I don't consider it actually painful or a problem. If I had to walk over ground like that for any length of time, at speed or carrying weight it might be different! If he's walking on it himself when he has the option not too (e.g. in the field) then I would worry less than if he's being led over it.

We go on the verge as far as we can. I took shoes off inside the gate this morning and he was maybe five or six strides to the softer ground. Once he is actually in the field proper he is fine and he will still chose to walk on the harder surfaces - he will come off the soft bed to stand on the concrete and look for his breakfast for example or cross the gravel to get to the grass for a munch.

Can you keep boots on him for that bit?

Remember that the fact he may not have looked so sore in shoes doesnt mean his feet didnt hurt then too and what you're doing now is fixing the problem, not hiding it. Boots and pads can work wonders and hopefully it wont take long to pass. Mine never took any more than a couple of weeks to be moving far better than they had been in shoes and they had very thin soles.

Thank you. Fingers crossed we will be the same. I know it is early days but I hate to see him struggle and the mantra 'no horse should ever have to take a tender step' keeps rolling around my head.

 

[zandp]

As he's in pain I'd walk him in boots for the first week or so which will give him the comfort he needs at the start and then I'd start doing the walks without boots so that he starts transitioning. Pads can stimulate the growth and changes in his sole and frog he needs to start the pain stopping (that wasn't the clearest sentence ever !).

i know what you mean about the wrong size boots, I borrowed some front ones which didn't fit at all and didn't have the money at the time to buy ones that did fit so had to transition my mare without boots. She had had years of being lame when shod and has a "problem" with her front feet when shod which seems to have disappeared now she's been barefoot for years. Her soles grew thick with the walking out - and then when, a few weeks later I started to ridden transitioning on the hard surfaces there was little pain. Although she did have a while of being very hesitant moving - as she recovered feeling in her feet.

I also had a lot of thrush to deal with and WLD, all of which were hidden when shod. Red Horse products worked really well.

Feed wise - I don't feed alfalfa at all, but I know lots of barefoot horse owners who do so that all looks fine. Is there magnesium in the pro balance ? That can help too.

I hope this works for you. I have 2 barefoot, 1 never been shod, and 1 who was shod for 15 years. Her whole demeanour has changed since going barefoot, movement is better, arthritis side effects are much less and it's definitely the best thing I've done, although it's also definitely not the easy option as some people seem to believe. And you will get people in your life who hate you for that decision - I've just discovered an ex YO lying about me on the net - saying my horse was hobbling around on concrete because she was barefoot. The truth is that she was hobbling because she had an abscess and she was on concrete a)because of the abscess so she could still move and b) because the YO's turnout was crap and very limited.

Good luck

 

[TwoStroke]

Be careful with Keratex - it contains formaldehyde, and the sole is permeable, meaning the chemicle can be absorbed into the foot - not good!

It's unlikely to me making him sore now, but imo not a good idea for general hoof health.

 

[Emilieu]

Be careful with Keratex - it contains formaldehyde, and the sole is permeable, meaning the chemicle can be absorbed into the foot - not good!

It's unlikely to me making him sore now, but imo not a good idea for general hoof health.

Yeah I kind of knew that which is why it was lying around - i had stopped using it. But then i went into a kind of blind panic mode and thought i should be trying to toughen up the sole and used it then immediately wished I hadn't... then used it again! This gives you an insight into the general panic in my mind...

Thanks z and p - I'm keeping my eyes peeled for signs of thrush etc emerging. I'll double check re the magnesium. I can just imagine the things my old YO would have had to say about this decision! Luckily we have a wee DIY yard and two horses are unshod already. Everyone is so supportive which is really helping.

 

[Angua2]

If it helps, my girl took about 6 weeks before she was happy to walk over anything but field, school, brushed tarmac and concrete. During this time we did most of our work over imperfect surfaces in boots. Initially a borrowed set (that were too large and spun round so she looked like Charlie chaplin) and then her own that she was quite happy to clump around in.

I would get days where she would happily go over the "test strip" and others that she wouldn't. That is now two years ago.

edited to add: we started with very, very thin flat soles with thrush to deal with too.

 

[Brightbay]

Don't panic

Boots are exactly the same as shoes for you. Put them on when you would want to wear shoes yourself - take 'em off when you would be happy not wearing shoes. So at the moment, that's boots off for field and stable, boots on all times in between. I think from what I read on here, the Fusions are much better at staying on, so if you feel he needs them, leave them on in the field.

Same applies to time - suppose you have to walk over something rough where you'd normally wear shoes (e.g. pebbly beach). Your feet don't toughen up overnight, it takes many days?

There's magnesium in ProBalance+ and ProHoof (I lob a bit more in at spring grass time ). You may find over time that you need to experiment with balancers - ProHoof got me going, but I eventually realised it's not enough for my grazing, so am on ForagePlus now with higher levels of magnesium, copper and zinc. (Obviously not me - too gritty for my dinner - I meant the horse...)

ETA - this is a good approach: "I would get days where she would happily go over the "test strip" and others that she wouldn't. That is now two years ago." Test on something not too demanding every day and let him tell you how his feet feel.

 

[mjcssjw2]

oh I am glad you have some replies!! they will help me too! Another 4 weeks to go for me going by Angua2's reply.
Still not happy about my horse being worse on the one foot though!!

 

[chestnut cob]

Who removed the shoes - farrier or trimmer? Did they remove/ trim any of his sole or the frog? Just thinking that for him to be that sore, maybe your farrier/ trimmer has cut away into the sensitive areas?

 

[Angua2]

oh I am glad you have some replies!! they will help me too! Another 4 weeks to go for me going by Angua2's reply.
Still not happy about my horse being worse on the one foot though!!

Wouldn't panic just yet. My girl has one foot that is "flatter" that the other, just how it is made, and this is always the "troublesome" one (for me anyway), and it took a little longer than the others to come right. No idea why - it is like us having one foot slightly bigger than the other I guess. Perhaps the changes in that foot are more complex to reflect what is going on further up the limb. Who knows, but I promise you your horse knows what he is doing when it comes to his feet. Mine did .

I will say, that the advice I got on here and the phoenix forum was invaluable. Don't forget every situation is different and will take varying lengths of time. Mine happened to take 6 weeks before we could consider anything with gravel on, but even then we were still at the beginning of our journey

 

[Emilieu]

If it helps.

It does help to hear other's experiences, so much - thank you everyone I am feeling much calmer!

Don't panic

Boots are exactly the same as shoes for you. Put them on when you would want to wear shoes yourself - take 'em off when you would be happy not wearing shoes.

Ok this will be my rule to go by Think i just needed reassurance that it was ok for him to feel so bad without them. Lol at you eating the balancer, I wonder if it would help my foot balance if i did...? Maybe i could become a better dancer

Perhaps the changes in that foot are more complex to reflect what is going on further up the limb.

MJ ^^^this^^^ sits very neatly with what we were discussing earlier re your boy's injury. Really interesting i think?

Chestnut cob - I think you may have made an excellent point there.
It was my farrier who has several barefoot clients and is behind my decision and enthusiatic about boots. The trimmer cannot come to me until June. I wonder... I had to leave a friend in charge (i'm a teacher so really hard to get time off when the farrier is coming) and his feet do look suspiciously tidy... I will ask friend tonight and have a very close look.

 

[mjcssjw2]

Emilieu, yes hopefully it does, perhaps more time will do it, and to be fair my horse was bilaterally lame in front in shoes, with the check ligament injury on the leg thats currently misbehaving, so he isn't in anyway normal!!

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

You need to invest in some boots and some therapeutic pads. Get him to stand on the pads for a bit till he makes an impression on them and then cut round them. Use some gaff tape to keep on his feet and get walking to help stimulate his feet.

 

[brucea]

Here's a thought for you. He was like that in shoes too - only the shoes were masking it

So you need to address the underlying issue - which may be dietary. it may be endocrine, it may be just that your farrier has done a pasture trim and removed too much.

 

[Caol Ila]

Here's a thought for you. He was like that in shoes too - only the shoes were masking it

So you need to address the underlying issue - which may be dietary. it may be endocrine, it may be just that your farrier has done a pasture trim and removed too much.

I'd say that's possible as a potential explanation for him being so spooky.

 

[Alyth]

It won't hurt him to do very short distances on difficult terrain.....gradually increasing the distance as he improves....and as much movement on easy terrain as possible 24/7 turnout is best.....and what is he eating? I would suggest going to Phoenixhorse forum - lots of help and advice there as well as a second hand page!! I promise you the effort in going barefoot will be worth it!! Good luck.