When do they go out

I agree with the poor grazing being better - unfortunately not everybody does. When you have people wanting daily turnout through winter then grassy lovely turnout in summer it does become a bit of a struggle. I go way above and beyond in many ways that I won't bore you with but sometimes it just feels as though nobody notices yet they become super observant if there is anything negative to point out! Having liveries and running a yard was a long term goal for me and having reached it, now 7 years in, I feel less appreciated and more weary than I ever did in my previous full time career - and my liveries are lovely people - they just have no idea of the sheer graft it takes to keep things to the standard they enjoy. Apologies to OP as I know this wasn't the point of the post - just one tired YO looking forward to summer turnout probably more than any livery as it is me who does all the mucking out and extra work of having them in not to mention the cost of feeding and bedding them too. Not easy to find the perfect balance with turnout I can assure you x
 
PollyP99 said:
I think some yard owners are far too precious about the state of the fields, most horses in the uk are too fat, so having fields that take a while to recover at this time of year is ideal for many yet YOs insist they should look pristine, no one I know wants perfect green fields, they just want their horses out and if the grass takes a while to come back then all to the good, IMO.

Also can't abide the "horse owners are not grateful" comments, come on you are offering a service, we don't have to be grateful for the privilege of paying for the service, we just want the service we pay for and happy horses! My YO earns a fair amount, no YM and 36 horses, he barely visits the place and we all get on with it, it can be done.
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Increasingly the issue will be that the income is meagre viewed against the valve of the asset and as livery yards tend to in striking distance of population centres these parcels of land are ripe for development .
It's going to get harder to find decent livery over the next twenty years.
But for people looking for livery it's really simple if there's less than are acre per horse your going to be on pretty restricted grazing at times unless the yard is very lucky with it's soil type so you will be looking to see what the yards got to help manage that in the way of hard standings and walkers , and you going to to prepared to pay because things like that cost money to provide.
 
Ours went out 24/7 on 12 April last year. This year the land is much wetter and they won't be out until it dries out more.

However, I am lucky enough to be on a very small yard where everyone is realistic and everything revolves around the benefits for the different horses. We have winter day-time turnout and then 24/7 when the conditions are suitable.

So, two of us have just moved our horses off their grazed-off, soggy winter paddock where they were supplemented with haylage in the daytime on to the only traditional "pasture land" on the yard. This is a small field with fairly rough mixed grazing but has more grass at the moment than anywhere else. The plan is that they will eat it off (and their night-time feed and forage has been significantly reduced to allow for this) so that the YO's two horses prone to laminitis can use it over the summer. They could potentially stay out 24/7 now (and did on Saturday night so that I could have a long-awaited lie-in) but they won't as we want to ensure the field remains in good enough condition to be grazed all summer and it is still pretty soggy in places.

They are happy and not piling weight on and we are happy because it is a solution that works for us and the YO. Had any of us not been happy, we would have discussed alternative ideas and come up with a plan. However, as I said, I am lucky. I have been on yards where the YO would not discuss anything...
 
I feel very lucky. I am on a lovely yard with only 16 horses and 30 acres. I have my own paddock which YO is happy for me to divide up and rotate/ rest. At the moment I have it set up as a track system in preparation for the spring grass. The fields have recently been harrowed and are due to be rolled.

Although we are on clay, we are at the top of a hill and therefore the land dries out fairly quickly and we don't get too much mud.

The horses have been turned out almost every day over winter with the odd exception - one or two horrendous days or when hardcore was being laid on the track to the fields. Some days they only got a couple of hours out and any time they did not go out YO texted all liveries to let us know they were staying in and why.

They are currently out from about 7am to 5pm (yo turns them all out and brings in daily), but we will be able to start staying out 24/7 in the next few weeks.

And all for a very reasonable price.

Unfortunately it's been a tough week on our yard this week as one horse is sadly being put to sleep this morning, and another is in Newmarket awaiting scan results which may not end well. We are a small close knit yard and we are all feeling it, and whilst it's awful for the two owners involved, it's also really tough for the YO who is trying to support the owners while she also loves all the horses and is desperately upset.

I think I will make a point of letting her know how very much appriciated she is when I see her later.
 
Lulup said:
If all yards kept to the ideal number of horses for their acreage to ensure all year turnout with enough paddocks to offer alternatives when fields being reseeded/fertilised etc then your livery prices would be significantly higher and many smaller yards wouldn't exist as they would simply be subsidising the cost of your horses keep for you.
You do of course have the option of not putting your horse at yards that do not have ample grazing that is well drained, perfectly fenced and perfectly suited to your particular needs but I suspect that there are not many 'perfect' alternatives available
within a reasonable distance and budget..
Trying to provide people with daily turnout in winter and good grazing in summer with cost of fencing/fertilising/harrowing/rolling/spraying/reseeding and with no loss of daily turnout is nigh on impossible for smaller yards and for those of us doing our best it is depressing to hear how little our efforts are appreciated. I was once a livery, and I remember being similarly oblivious to the effort it takes to maintain a yard/land, as a YO I now realise why lots of us are so jaded and grumpy! People think that the paltry sum they pay entitles them to expect miracles only likely to be deliverable by the use of a magic wand!
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Well said, I don't own a yard, I am a livery who really appreciates the work my YO puts in to making the yard & paddocks a great place to be. If turnout isn't restricted at times there will be little grass for later in the year. Once a paddock is poached it takes a long time & considerable amount of money to put right. Offering reasonable priced livery & trying to actually make a living after all the expenses is difficult.

Arzada said:
Frankly I find your final sentence insulting. Following your 'on yer bike' suggestion that liveries can go elsewhere yes of course they can. I guess that also applies to moaning YOs who don't like what they are doing.
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As Lulup said this comment sums up liveries who expect everything to be great, fantastic stables & school. 24 hour turnout whenever they want it on perfect paddocks & want this all for very little money. A reality check is needed by many liveries. For what many YOs earn a month after expenses most liveries would not work for that amount.
 
Goldenstar said:
Many yards need as far as I can see need to half the number of horses and double what they charge .
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this totally. people quite rightly want their horses kept the best way possible and the only way a lot of yards would be able to do that is to have half the number of horses and double or possibly more than double the basic cost to the people stabled there. while some people would be happy to pay twice as much I imagine there would be a lot of threads on here with people wanting to know of other yards in xyz area that have spaces because they cannot afford the huge price increase. places with year round turnout are going to get a lot rarer. and with the price of land when its used for building going up so much there will be a lot more yard owners deciding to sell and have an easy life rather than have the hassle of liveries who mostly do not appreciate the work they put in
 
Our lot are normally out for the beginning of May, but are going to hold off a couple of weeks and hopefully put them out for summer in the middle of May. Hoping it gives the fields more of a chance to dry up! (well fingers crossed!)
 
Our horses are In from around 5th November until whenever it is dry enough to go back out. That is the norm in my area,you'll struggle to find 24/7 turnout. We do have a sand school to turn out in and also the horse walker. The horses are inside a barn and can all see eachother/ interact with their next door neighbours and they all seem happy enough with it. I think it tends to be us owners who stress about lack of turnout, than the horses actually do. Ours had a day out the other week when it was dry but windy and within 2 hours they was stood at gates shouting to come in, but that could just be my wimpy warmbloods!
 
Ours come in as late as possible, usually end of Nov but we were lucky enough to make it to mid Dec this winter. They then come in overnight until late April, which is a couple of weeks later than most around here, but given they're often a good 6 weeks later coming in and can still get out every day regardless of the weather I can live with it. The YO won't let them go out until there's enough grass to maintain them as we're not allowed to put hay in the field.
 
FlyingCircus said:
Mine stays out all winter, but is in at night.
Then in summer (usually April/may onwards) is out 24/7.

Always surprises me that other people cope with their horses not going out!? Not sure there's enough time in the day for me to exercise twice a day and muck out twice a day. My muscles ache just thinking about it!
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Just because you are told that a yard is 'all year turnout' doesn't mean it is, and when winter comes around you find that 'all year turnout' is not in fields, but is in a sandpit for two hours a day from Oct-May'.

Has been good for my horse who was injured at the time so this meant that he was not turned out in thick sticky mud, and meant that his ligament had time to recover, but looking to the future I am not sure I can go another couple of years as its too expensive on bedding/labour.
 
No need to apologize I've been a yo myself and it's a thankless task in many cases (and in my case I didn't get paid for months and had to get rid) i agree though that some are a bit precious. I don't want knee high lush green grass with no weeds. I just want my horse out.
 
To the comment that poached fields cost a lot of time and money to maintain, I'll take a pic of the mud field my mare currently occupies tomorrow and another in 6 weeks time, it amazes me how it recovers, it's clay, it's wet, it's poached, it will look like a crown green bowling pitch come mid end May and all it gets is a roll, no other work is done.
 
I feel very lucky having my own place where my horses can live out 24/7 all year round and naturally loose weight over winter then have good quality, plentiful grass in the spring and summer. Even when mine were at livery we were very fortunate to have a winter and a summer turnout which we couod use as we liked. I wouldn't put my horses on a yard where there was no turnout for weeks on end, completely unnatural way to keep any horse.
 
I have to say here if yard owners dont worry about fields being tramped early in season as horses, as you say just need out. Fields then grow less grass and more weeds. Weeds then can harm horses too i.e butter cups. Fields have to be looked after so they can produce the healthy grass needed for healthy horses.
 
But that's the point, many horses are over weight, mixed grazing not pristine grass is suitable for these types. The field I'm in is poached and yes there will be some weed growth and the grass will take a long while yo recover but I like it that way and so would the majority of owners as long as they can get out.
 
I don't quite like this argument cause it can lead on and on, but horses technically are NOT only grass eaters. Wild horses won't just eat lush grass. Its a fine balance, but i think being in for 3/4 of a year is mentally and probably physically detrimental. No matter how much exercise they get (natural exercise is eating at the same time not hours of not eating etc)
 
I am lucky enough to have my horse at home - he has 2 acres split into 2 fields both of which are poached and look dreadful. However as a poster has said above, they will recover. I'd rather have fields that I can use every day so my horse can have his time out than worry about how they look. Luckily my husband is an agricultural contractor so I do have an advantage in repairing the fields!! Horse is still finding stuff to eat and is happy out in the squelchy mud - he trots out to the field every day.

I am old school in that I want my horse out every day in the winter - they need down time. I ride first thing, chuck him out and he's in at night in the winter. Out 24 7 in summer. The fields cope.

I can see how livery yards would rather keep the horses in though - it's a lot of work repairing fields esp when lots of horses on little acreages.
 
A big problem that I have encountered where I am is, that YO have no desire/incentive/energy - whatever, to maintain their land.
Having been forced to move 4 times in 6 years all due to reducing grazing time. I'm now at a pretty awful yard but it allows 2 days turnout per week. It is THE only reason I am there.
The previous yards have reduced the grazing so much that now those liveries get between 1-3 hrs per day in summer months only. Summer being taken literally as June - August. The rest of the year ( yes 9 months) there is no turnout at all. One or two have a sand pit, or a horse walker. Not one of these yards does ANY field maintenance to speak of.
What I find bizarre is that my current yard, those two days are set in stone. The weather can be horrendous but the horses go out. The weather beautiful and dry but if it's not THE day they stay in. The YO won't even change those 2 full days to 4 half days. It's bonkers, but there is some maintenance the most I've experienced in this area.
I get tired of people saying move, to where I ask??? The more yards close the grazing, the less options there are to move to. I still think there should be some sort of law to insist horses get some time out everyday, to be free not just ridden.
 
Nativelover said:
I do fully understand land management, I think there's alot of YO who could do with studying it too. Perhaps then they wouldn't fill yards with more horses than the land can take.
Or at least they could think about putting in alternative measures to ensure horses get to have some freedom everyday, it's just as much a welfare issue as land management.
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THIS. Our field management is the only bad thing about my yard. We've turned out in a mire during daytime all through winter. Too many horses not enough grazing for all.
 
I imagine it's very hard to earn a living as a YO hence the cramming as many horses in as possible and limiting turnout.

My personal feeling is, if your horses welfare is being compromised by unsuitable or insufficient turnout then people should vote with their feet, obviously not a choice in areas with no other suitable yards or private land to rent...

I pay for 3 horses worth of livery even though I only have two as it means I can manage to provide 24/7 turnout year round if I supplement with feed and hay through the winter. My cob and pony are retired so them being able to live out whilst having the security of having stables available is vital for their welfare.

I have four acres split into two, on clay but with good drainage as it's on a hillside. Last year there were three of us on it and it was just about manageable. I spent a year looking for somewhere suitable to keep mine when we moved.
 
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