When do you call it a day? (rambling, sorry).

SAll is not lost. My cob was kicked in the field which fractured a bone in her hock when she was 16. She went very lame on the rear leg. She was rested in the field for a couple of years. Then arthritis set in at the site of the fracture and the bones fused together and lameness dissapeared. She is still being happily hacked out at a walk aged 30! (She is on Linseed and Formula4 Feet)
 
My friend has a mare that has Arthritis in her pelvic region, she tried supplements and didn't really want to put her on Bute or Danilon for long term use, so she put her on Cortaflex and Alphabute and it's worked, she's 18 I think this year and the improvement is brill, she couldn't pick her off side hind up to be picked out or for the farrier, she now can and she's cantering round the field winding her boyfriends up, she does have off days but the better days are far more frequent now, she has a new lease of life the old bat!! lol and it's all natural stuff she's having so no long term use side effects.
 
flamehead said:
Had diagnosis of chronic arthritis in our big boy's hocks today.

Nerve blocks on Thursday to establish where exactly it is although pretty certain hocks. Then potentially steroid injections to keep sound for a year, maybe two. Eventing career out window anyway.

He is never leaving us, never being sold on, but when do you call it a day? Previously I would have said when not continuously sound, but now I can't bear to lose him and I'm thinking well, is it when not hacking sound? When not field sound? When not field sound on painkillers?

Sorry, what a ramble =[
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Goodness me, you're a long long way off calling it a day. My old girl broke her shoulder a year ago and is still intermitantly lame but very very happy in her retirement. Hock arthritis is very common (half the horses at my yard have it) and no reason to have a horse PTS unless they are constantly hopping lame. If you can afford to retire your boy, I don't see why he shouldn't be still going in his late twenties. :)
 
It seems a very short time between being intermitantly lame and then a firm diagnosis of arthritis.
Have you seen the bone growth in the x-rays?
and is he lame enough to be nerve blocked? as you say it wasn't lame but 'slightly stiff'
It seems a little strange to be talking of calling it a day when the vet only saw him for the first time yesterday?

If i were you i would listen to the vet, my girl was diagnosed with arthritis in her coffin joint after a lameness work up at the vets. She had a series of cartrophen injections and a few years on and she's great *touch wood* the bone growth is only 1mm and she's still doing everything as before. Untill she starts showing signs of acting her age then I'll reduce her workload and eventually retire but up unitl then I'll let her and my vet dictate workload and future plans :)
 
Wagtail said:
Goodness me, you're a long long way off calling it a day. My old girl broke her shoulder a year ago and is still intermitantly lame but very very happy in her retirement. Hock arthritis is very common (half the horses at my yard have it) and no reason to have a horse PTS unless they are constantly hopping lame. If you can afford to retire your boy, I don't see why he shouldn't be still going in his late twenties. :)
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^^ This! So many horses have this and with the right management and the help of some meds lead a very happy life. My old boy was competing and winning elementrys a year before I retired him to be a very happy field fella.

Don't write the big fella off yet.
 
My 30yr old is 'stiff' but has never had a proper diagnosis or arthritus, the vets just coming to the conclusion that thats what it is due to his age. He is on one bute a day, and is 'gently' hacked out one a nice day. I say 'gently' becuase he jogs all the way and if the ground is good I let him have a canter.

It keeps his mind happy.

Magnetic boots are very good - he has the bioflow wraps on hing legs overnight. He has turnout boots on in the winter during the day, they really help keep legs warm but you need to be sure they fit properly or they can rub and cause sores.

He now lives out 24/7 which helps too - he has a shelter.

Saying that, he is hopping lame as of last night - off to create my own thread......
 
flamehead said:
Pastie2, please **** off if you're going to make comments like that. We will NEVER give up on him until he is no longer happy. If he lives til 30 eating us out of house and home and never leaving his field, thats fabulous. But it is important that we're prepared, particularly as he is my OHs baby boy and it will be the hardest decision he will ever have to make. I'm just trying to get my head around when I decide that. He gets blue now if he's sat in his box or field for a few days without being worked.

Oh and P.S. he's back to being fully sound again tonight. Well, you know, no worse than he was this am before the flexion test.
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Stick her on UI, best thing I ever did ;)

As for your horse, have you considered Devils claw (brand name no bute) as an alternative to bute?

If you and your OH are certain that he won't adapt to being content as a field ornament (not that he's there yet, and many do despite what their owners initially think) then maybe don't dismiss bute. If he's going to be sound and happy to be worked on bute for say 5-10 years before the liver becomes a problem, then thats 5-10 years he might not have otherwise had. Have a chat with your vet.

Hard decision to make, but I don't think you're there yet. If he were mine I'd try all the complementary therapies first - herbal sups, magnets etc, as well as the conventional therapies which you are already doing (vet meds & farriery), before worrying about anything else.
 
Its a really hard decision and i was there not long ago. Lexi is my forever horse and i decided to go against the vets advice and not have her pts. She not in any pain and is more than happy. She gallops around the field like a loon, eats me out of house and home, greets me with a whinny everyday and basically shows up every other horse there.

Shes turned out 24/7 and i bring her in everyday with my new horse and instead of giving him a very good groom, i spend the time equally divided by the two of them and as soon as im more used to my new boy, im going to lead her out on hacks like th giant dog that she is.

In my opinion, we take resposability for a horse when we pay for them and just cos they can be ridden any longer does not, and should not mean its the end of the road. If your boy is in agony, yes i completely understand why the decision has to be made. Im lucky in that my mare is in no pain whats-so-ever, shes just to clumsy to be ridden. But there are more than enough drugs on the market these days so that they dont have to be in pain.

My 70yr old gran has chronic arthritis, but she takes tablets and still goes shopping/bingo/dog walking everyday and i know what she would say to you if you were to ask her :))

Good luck and chin up :)
 
Firstly until you explore the options your vet has suggested, tried the treatment, I wouldn't worry too much at the moment about 'when to call things a day', your getting ahead of your self there.

See if and what treatment works, if he's comfortable for a weekend strolls/light hacks and is comfortable living in retirement then great and until you can see he's getting worse then obviously you know what to do, you've given it a go.

If you want to be black and white about the whole thing, then do, it's got buggar all to do with anyone else, it's between you and your OH, do you really want to pay for a horse you can no longer ride or achieve your ambitions? do you really want to keep a horse for many years in retirement that has be on medication just to get by on a day to day basis, when you could use the time and money on buying another horse? yes it pretty selfish way of looking at it some might say but then not everyone can afford to do both and sometimes you have to think like this, he'd pass peicefully and happily before he really starts to struggle in life and there is nothing wrong with that.

But for the time being, don't stress too much, see what happens with the vet.
 
Thank you all so much, I am writing all of your suggestions down and will be taking them to the vet when he goes in for his nerve blocks on Thursday.

He has not been x-rayed yet vet just looked at him. However this is not a short term problem, he has been having off days and lame days mixed in with stiffness for a good while now.

I guess what I meant was that whilst we're a long way away from PTS yet, it is now something we need to be thinking and planning for.

Keep all suggestions coming if you would guys.

Ps will dig out some jumping photos of him when I'm at home tomorrow :) xxxx
 
Bit of a strange vet making a firm diagnosis without xrays or nerve blocks....or did he just say it might be?
I know my vet was very apprihensive to even suggest what it could be without further investigation.
 
Vet said tests will confirm but nowt else it could be.

No swelling, no heat. Lameness in both legs. Stiffness all the time, lameness intermittent. Goes hopping with flexion tests. No obvious bashes or cuts to suggest injury. Xx
 
I'm sorry to hear that, but he still could have many happy years left, I know in truth it's unlikely he will compete at a high level but he may have years left as a riding horse :)
 
flamehead said:
But the vet said that he currently is not comfortable enough to be a hack - and the steroids may not work. What I'm trying to understand is what we do if that happens - because right now my heart is saying fight at all costs, but I know thats not the right thing for him, not really, not when he's suffering.
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Not comfortable enough to be a hack doesn't necessarily mean they must be PTS.

My Be is retired on vets advice, she isn't sound enough to be a hack, BUT she is perfectly happy kicking her heels up and larking around in her paddock EVERY day, without fail!! We gave her a course of IRAP treatment last year, knowing it wouldn't bring her sound enough to work, but it's certainly made her more comfy, judging by her field antics.

My girl may be wonky and unable to work, but I hope she'll be with us for many years yet, living a pampered retirement and continuing to bring us lots of happy times :)
 
my girl is wonky but stiffness rather than pain, the vet says it's not worth tests, at her age it's arthritis, she moves kinda ok, and LOVES to work despite discomfort.

I have her on Buteless by equine america so that there is somewhere to go (ie Bute) if she does start to feel pain, the vet is happy to proscribe bute as soon as I ask for it but equally happy for her to be on this stuff in the meantime. He also advises that I ride her in nice weather if she feels like she can manage it.

She has other medical issues which mean any day could be her last and my vet is a proper horse man, his veiw is as long as she's happy and no worse than uncomfortable, crack on, it can only be good to keep her a little bit fit and let her feel valued and join in.

I'm hoping sharer's little novice friend is going to come and ride with sharer a bit over the summer, hacks on lead rein etc to boost own confidence and give Lottie some attention, 15, capable, tiny and loves Lottie, old enough to understand she may not be here long and sweet enough to want to make her happy even though it will ultimatly make herself sad when Lottie goes!!

Is there no chance he could be sound enough for this sort of life?
 
There is absolutely a chance he could be - my thoughts were on how bad they have to get before you call it a day, not that we're doing that now. The life you describe above is fab for Frankie and we would obviously keep him alive for that. I'm just trying to set straight in my own head where we draw the line when he's no longer in any ridden work. Is is field sound? Box sound? Not really sound but doesn't seem to be in pain? Not sound at all but on bugger loads of medication to keep him vaguely comfy? xxx
 
flamehead said:
There is absolutely a chance he could be - my thoughts were on how bad they have to get before you call it a day, not that we're doing that now. The life you describe above is fab for Frankie and we would obviously keep him alive for that. I'm just trying to set straight in my own head where we draw the line when he's no longer in any ridden work. Is is field sound? Box sound? Not really sound but doesn't seem to be in pain? Not sound at all but on bugger loads of medication to keep him vaguely comfy? xxx
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My mare is lame but not on medication. I kno she is perfectly happy. I do have two boxes of danilon at the ready in case she goes through a bad patch as she does from time to time. The horse I bought to replace her has now been diagnosed with bone spavin in both hocks (same as your boy) and yet he is sound and happy to ride as his hocks have fused. Most hock arthritis becomes painless when this happens.
 
flamehead said:
There is absolutely a chance he could be - my thoughts were on how bad they have to get before you call it a day, not that we're doing that now. The life you describe above is fab for Frankie and we would obviously keep him alive for that. I'm just trying to set straight in my own head where we draw the line when he's no longer in any ridden work. Is is field sound? Box sound? Not really sound but doesn't seem to be in pain? Not sound at all but on bugger loads of medication to keep him vaguely comfy? xxx
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Really an arthritic horse should be kept out 24/7 if at all possible. As for the "when do you call it a day" question. Believe me you WILL know. You know the horse more than anyone - something just changes in them when they've had enough and, if small doses of painkillers don't work then that's when you have to look seriously into their quality of life.

My pony went on for 7 years after his spavin was diagnosed. He would have probably gone on longer but sadly broke down in front when doing a smal PC team chase. He never recovered, his body shut down and he died. his spavin at that point had been fine for several years though without painkillers (the bute affected his liver). These days though there`are so many alternatives and different things you can use to help (magnetic boots being one).
 
Hi again FH.
Have a look at www.brodpod.co.uk of if nothing comes up with that, just google brodpod. They are the strongest magnets on the market at the moment - Myself and my partner bought bracelets from them at Hutton in the Forest horse trials last year and they have improved our back ache no end! I think these are the same people who invented bioflow products, but the brodpod are stronger and have succeeded bioflow. They do leg wraps. They were lovely people at the show and really helpful. Maybe give them a ring and see if they can help.
PS Can you let me know what your vet says about the hyaluronic acid injections into the joint - PM me if you like
xxx
 
Are you talking about spavin? As ladyt25 says, it's often a blip and they come pretty much sound - if a trifle stiffer-moving after treatment. Vet advice is usually to work a spavin. My lad had HA in both hocks and came sound, went lame again but came sound enough to hoon about, jump and ride out at all speed no probs. Always did move like a camel - now moves like one with spavins!
 
Magnets - try Bioflow. Not the cheapest (and probaby not the most expensive) but a very decent company who will replace faulty items no quibble, and if something like horse boots, allows you a decent discount on the next ones if you send the magnets back when the actual boots have worn out.
 
You will know when the time is right. Everyone will tell you this that has had one of these moments. One day your horse will tell you its time for him to go - and thats when to let them.

Enjoy every moment, and love him everyday like its his last and hope and pray that you have him at the end of each season. Dont plan, dont say at the end of the summer, before it gets too cold - he will tell you and you will know

god bless
x
 
So put him on Bute or butless, and treat him as normal, so ok he cann't event anymore? why not hunting. Jeez just because he's like most of us suffering from stiff and sore joints doesn't mean the end of the world.:):):):)
 
Echo Bravo said:
So put him on Bute or butless, and treat him as normal, so ok he cann't event anymore? why not hunting. Jeez just because he's like most of us suffering from stiff and sore joints doesn't mean the end of the world.:):):):)
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I dont think that the horse is the issue, I think it is the OP.
 
Do you think so Pastie2, as I wouldn't be worried, just find the horse a quieter life for him, but at my age me and the OH have decided the 2 youngsters we have are the last.:):):)
 
E.B. Frank is with us regardless of what happens - he's not going anywhere, we're very lucky that we can offer him a field full of grass for the rest of his life. But I am struggling with the thought of losing our big fella - and thats why I was looking for the above.
 
Echo Bravo said:
Do you think so Pastie2, as I wouldn't be worried, just find the horse a quieter life for him, but at my age me and the OH have decided the 2 youngsters we have are the last.:):):)
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It certainly wouldnt be an issue for me EB, I would get on and deal with it.
 
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