When do you give up trying to make them brave enough to do a job they’re not keen on?

[maya2008]

Been backed a year and 9 months or so, 5yo, 11.2hh. Has always been the happiest little soul following behind or on the lead. Will take a nervous or wobbly child out hacking independently (behind) and bring them home safely. Canters willingly and happily and keeps up without issue. Will slightly reluctantly (with kicking) go on her own in an enclosed space, where she would prefer to walk and trot and canters with effort. Categorically refuses to do anything but walk/trot very slowly and demolish jumps without a lead rein attached at shows, but will merrily take a child round a course of cross poles with the lead rein on, being totally unbothered by scary planks or otherwise. Gives confidence in spades because she is the safest, steadiest pony on four legs!

Kids adore her, so we were hoping we could get her more forwards without anyone to follow, as daughter really needs to be doing more so she can steer round her own jumps and can canter round on her own in the field. We’ve been pushing pony to go first out hacking all summer. She’s not been allowed to follow behind in the field or out hacking since the end of May. She’s never been successful in her protests and if needed big brother has got on. She’s still ducking behind the nearest pony given any opportunity at all, going slowly so they get annoyed and overtake, being reluctant to canter in front out hacking. Was particularly cross this weekend because we had a tiny lead rein visitor last week and she was the happiest pony on the planet looking after a 3 year old child on the lead rein.

So… after recognising earlier in the year that son’s Welsh wanted a steadier life and switching him to my daughter (he’s ecstatic and now wants no one else!) I am seriously considering whether, after 4 months, this isn’t something she’s going to grow out of.

Am I wrong? Should we persevere? I’m going to do a bit more with her in the arena as she is more comfortable there, but I really did sit down yesterday afternoon and wonder if I was about to advertise the wrong pony. Little speedy Welsh mare took daughter out for a spin yesterday and they were a very happy pair. Daughter’s riding has improved hugely over the summer (mostly thanks to that little Welsh gelding who decided he likes to be a teaching pony best) and they might actually be a better match than previously thought.

So.. current plan is to give daughter 2 weeks on speedy Welsh and son 2 remedial weeks on much loved steady pony to see what happens. (Or should I give them longer?) Then…

What would she even be if we loaned her out? Lead rein only? Lead rein and first ridden if you can kick??? I’d keep them all but we’re running out of time and two ponies each is my limit!!!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

She sounds like a perfect lead rein pony. She is only 5 years old so may develop the confidence needed to be a first ridden over time but why not let her play to her strengths?
After all she can be ridden off lead, just not in front/alone.

 

[Highmileagecob]

You sound to have two confidence givers, worth their weight in gold. I would keep them until outgrown, but understand the emotional difficulty of parting company after a few years together.

 

[tda]

She sounds like a perfect lead rein pony. She is only 5 years old so may develop the confidence needed to be a first ridden over time but why not let her play to her strengths?
After all she can be ridden off lead, just not in front/alone.

I agree with this.

 

[maya2008]

You sound to have two confidence givers, worth their weight in gold. I would keep them until outgrown, but understand the emotional difficulty of parting company after a few years together.

Our most adored little friend is now outgrown in terms of ability, hence trying to get her more confident doing what my daughter now wants to do. Daughter goes first happily on her gelding, jumps small courses independently, schools him, canters first in the field. He’s been teaching her to sit spooks, to take a better contact and to jump up to 50cm.

We’ve had quite a few young ones - some went first without issue from the very beginning and now hack solo with my son. Some went first with encouragement (little gelding!) and this one just…well it’s never been her thing.

 

[Caol Ila]

I've been asking the same question myself.

Do I just give up and accept that Fin will not hack solo? How do I reframe what I want to do with him, especially over the winter? Will he tolerate 4 or so days in the school instead of his current 2? Should I cut back his work (which sort of sucks when they start being stabled overnight)? I don't know.

I have tried. My latest attempt was last week. Unlike some horses, there isn't a spot where he decides he's not going any further, and when you know where that is, you can work towards it. I have no idea where his spot is because it changes every time. Sometimes, it's just past the outdoor arena. Sometimes, it's before the end of the gallop track. Sometimes, you can get off the property, onto the road, and then he slams on the brakes and turns around. I have closely watched Warwick Schiller videos and similar trainers, but their advice hasn't been that applicable. He doesn't give you much warning that he's having doubts. I'm good at reading horses, and he really doesn't. He will be plodding along, head low, ears relaxed, very chilled, then in the blink of an eye, he's jumped into freeze, head up, braced in his whole body, and there's bugger all you can do.

He hacks fine in company and/or with a foot soldier. I can lead him in hand but he doesn't seem to be making a mental link between that and trusting the rider.

Just feel a bit SOL with that issue. Perhaps a really great horsemanship trainer could make inroads, but there ain't any of those around here.

It's a good question. How do you know that a horse just isn't going to do a thing?

 

[maya2008]

I've been asking the same question myself.

Do I just give up and accept that Fin will not hack solo? How do I reframe what I want to do with him, especially over the winter? Will he tolerate 4 or so days in the school instead of his current 2? Should I cut back his work (which sort of sucks when they start being stabled overnight)? I don't know.

I have tried. My latest attempt was last week. Unlike some horses, there isn't a spot where he decides he's not going any further, and when you know where that is, you can work towards it. I have no idea where his spot is because it changes every time. Sometimes, it's just past the outdoor arena. Sometimes, it's before the end of the gallop track. Sometimes, you can get off the property, onto the road, and then he slams on the brakes and turns around. I have closely watched Warwick Schiller videos and similar trainers, but their advice hasn't been that applicable. He doesn't give you much warning that he's having doubts. I'm good at reading horses, and he really doesn't. He will be plodding along, head low, ears relaxed, very chilled, then in the blink of an eye, he's jumped into freeze, head up, braced in his whole body, and there's bugger all you can do.

He hacks fine in company and/or with a foot soldier. I can lead him in hand but he doesn't seem to be making a mental link between that and trusting the rider.

Just feel a bit SOL with that issue. Perhaps a really great horsemanship trainer could make inroads, but there ain't any of those around here.

It's a good question. How do you know that a horse just isn't going to do a thing?

This is so us! Depending on the day she’ll cope a bit better…or a bit worse. Like Fin she was feral once. She then had a horrific traumatising experience, such that she was aggressive towards adults (never children, would always actively protect them). It’s taken her years to learn that most humans are good, that her bad experiences were not the norm, and she can trust visitors to the yard without fear. I do wonder if her past trauma has affected her to the point that she just wants her and the child she’s looking after to be safe, for someone else to take the risks.

 

[Caol Ila]

This is so us! Depending on the day she’ll cope a bit better…or a bit worse. Like Fin she was feral once. She then had a horrific traumatising experience, such that she was aggressive towards adults (never children, would always actively protect them). It’s taken her years to learn that most humans are good, that her bad experiences were not the norm, and she can trust visitors to the yard without fear. I do wonder if her past trauma has affected her to the point that she just wants her and the child she’s looking after to be safe, for someone else to take the risks.

Yes, that's a good way to put it. Fin definitely wants someone else to take all risks. When you're sitting on him, and there is no other human or horse in front of his nose, he believes that he's the one doing the risk-taking.

Maybe he was broken in too late to 100% trust the rider as his leader.

 

[Goldenstar]

Some horses are never great at solo hacking and unless it’s essential for me I never push it if it was then I would buy a horse thats proven hacking alone.

Horses who hack well alone are usually either very naturally bold and like exploring or show high degrees of trust in their riders .It’s not a natural thing for horses to want to do .
Its one of those things I just work round if they are not good at it .
Its an interesting thing hacking alone it surprises me that my TB’s have all been great solo hacks yet you would think that racing would not be a thing that instilled solo things in them .

 

[stangs]

.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Some horses are never great at solo hacking and unless it’s essential for me I never push it if it was then I would buy a horse thats proven hacking alone.

Horses who hack well alone are usually either very naturally bold and like exploring or show high degrees of trust in their riders .It’s not a natural thing for horses to want to do .
Its one of those things I just work round if they are not good at it .

Problem is for some owners not solo hacking will mean pretty much not hacking. Not always easy to work around.

 

[Goldenstar]

Problem is for some owners not solo hacking will mean pretty much not hacking. Not always easy to work around.

That’s why if you never have company you need to chose the horse with great care .

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I ca

Problem is for some owners not solo hacking will mean pretty much not hacking. Not always easy to work around.

I genuinely cannot think of any time/circumstance when I would deem it safe for a 1st ridden to hack alone. I don't really understand why OP needs this pony to hack in the lead when she has other ponies available to do that.

 

[Lexi 123]

For a pony I think what you have is perfect as she brilliant on the lead. She only 5 so she probably just needs to get more confidence with hacking and jumping. Secondly there is big difference between a horse and pony I think think it wrong for other posters to compare their horse to your lead rain pony.

 

[Goldenstar]

I ca

I genuinely cannot think of any time/circumstance when I would deem it safe for a 1st ridden to hack alone. I don't really understand why OP needs this pony to hack in the lead when she has other ponies available to do that.

Fair point

 

[tda]

Thinking about this a bit more.... you say pony is better/different with your son.
Maybe at just 5yr old pony needs a bit of support and so does your daughter so that's why they aren't progressing together .

 

[maya2008]

What’s she like in the herd? If she’s a follower there too, I’d be inclined to assume that’s just her personality and, given that good LR ponies are in high demand as loans, I probably wouldn’t bother trying to train her off the lead for now.

She’s the one who stands there while the others play, then reluctantly follows if they all move fields - only moving fast towards dinner. She stands her ground as needed but mostly does as little exercise as possible. Moving takes time away from eating, after all! She let her foal literally climb all over her and didn’t discipline her ever - the others had to do that.

 

[DabDab]

I ca

I genuinely cannot think of any time/circumstance when I would deem it safe for a 1st ridden to hack alone. I don't really understand why OP needs this pony to hack in the lead when she has other ponies available to do that.

I think it is the going alone around jumps or the field that is the issue, just the hacking in front has been tried as a method to train the independence a bit.

OP, I think a LR pony that is also safe off lead following another out hacking is worth its weight in gold personally, and there will be plenty of demand if you decide to loan or sell.

 

[maya2008]

I ca

I genuinely cannot think of any time/circumstance when I would deem it safe for a 1st ridden to hack alone. I don't really understand why OP needs this pony to hack in the lead when she has other ponies available to do that.

She never needs to hack alone, but she needs to be able to go first - in an arena, in a field, round a course of jumps on her own, in a warm-up without following another. Before we persevered with going in front out hacking she was unimpressed about going first AT ALL. Now she’ll do so in an enclosed space without too much reluctance, but the hacking issues persist. If we drop back and let her follow, I worry she’ll go back to wanting to follow in the arena again, so we’re basically stuck at lead rein stage.

That’s what the decision is about really - do we accept it’s just not her thing, and give up trying?

 

[maya2008]

I think it is the going alone around jumps or the field that is the issue, just the hacking in front has been tried as a method to train the independence a bit.

OP, I think a LR pony that is also safe off lead following another out hacking is worth its weight in gold personally, and there will be plenty of demand if you decide to loan or sell.

Exactly that! ‘Going first’ was the issue, wherever we were, so she wasn’t allowed to follow ever - and it has worked up to a point. I think we may have got as far as we can though.

 

[DabDab]

That’s why if you never have company you need to chose the horse with great care .

I buy mine as unbacked youngsters and they all hack well alone....they have to since I rarely have company. Back in the day I was also happy retraining nappers and planters to hack. I'm not saying that there aren't horses who won't hack alone, but I haven't really met one yet. If one has already developed a habit of stopping or napping then there is an ethical question about whether it is worth continuing with it when there are other options available, but certainly youngsters by and large hack happily alone pretty quickly and with minimal stress.

 

[ycbm]

I buy mine as unbacked youngsters and they all hack well alone....they have to since I rarely have company. Back in the day I was also happy retraining nappers and planters to hack. I'm not saying that there aren't horses who won't hack alone, but I haven't really met one yet. If one has already developed a habit of stopping or napping then there is an ethical question about whether it is worth continuing with it when there are other options available, but certainly youngsters by and large hack happily alone pretty quickly and with minimal stress.

I do the same. I failed with one. Until I owned him I didn't believe they existed, but he was simply terrified of any change, which included a daffodil coming into bloom on a verge.

In general though, solo hacking is all to do with rider confidence.
.

 

[maya2008]

I buy mine as unbacked youngsters and they all hack well alone....they have to since I rarely have company. Back in the day I was also happy retraining nappers and planters to hack. I'm not saying that there aren't horses who won't hack alone, but I haven't really met one yet. If one has already developed a habit of stopping or napping then there is an ethical question about whether it is worth continuing with it when there are other options available, but certainly youngsters by and large hack happily alone pretty quickly and with minimal stress.

Also been my experience - with an adult rider and ponies with reasonable starts in life.

Out of the four little ones we backed recently (3 of whom were feral), two wandered down the road solo without a care in the world, one will but is spooky (his personality to be honest!) and this one just…she’ll go, but she is NOT happy about it and even with endless repetition, that isn’t changing. Same riders on similar aged ponies are merrily going first/going solo, getting calmer and happier about it the more times they go, yet she isn’t settling. Hence me wondering if we are doing the right thing trying to make her, when she could do a job that didn’t involve this at all.

 

[Caol Ila]

In general though, solo hacking is all to do with rider confidence.
.

If only…..

Ponying isn’t great where we are because the roads to the park are narrow and busy, so you’d be a bit of a traffic hazard.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

N

Hence me wondering if we are doing the right thing trying to make her, when she could do a job that didn’t involve this at all.

No, I don't think you are tbh. She may well develop more confidence as she gets more experience but lead -rein ponies are worth their weight in gold and will never be short of a job. The only caveat is that I would want to retain ownership/control, so that no-one tries to make her into something she isn't and ruins her for the job that she is good at.

Eta, it is not unusual for a lead rein pony not to be a good first ridden. Will she show as a lead-rein pony?

 

[SEL]

I've got a book called Brain, Pain or Training (something like that) and I think if you've ruled out pain and have tried the training then their brain just isn't wired to do something that is probably quite unnatural. My best solo hacker is an independent little soul. The youngster has learnt but by choice would follow a bottom and the Appy just never took to it. She would do certain routes that she had done with others first, but unwillingly and if anything changed - a field maple turning yellow in autumn - then we were back to square one. Possibly pain related but honestly I think a lot was 'her'. She follow me on foot anywhere.

Another who didn't have a great start in life and was very aggressive to humans when I met her. She is actually quite a softie so something happened to get her like that.

I think a lead rein pony like you describe is worth their weight in gold to the right home.

 

[Supercalifragilistic]

I think there’s a tendency to expect ponies to progress with the child from lead, to just off lead and following a human / horse, to fully independent but sane. Some ponies will but a huge number don’t (or at least they don’t manage the last step with a wobbly child on board). Horses/larger ponies are a little different because they are being ridden by an adult. You only need to look at the number of adverts for first ponies that show a child on the lead and then a teenager / small adult off lead.

In your shoes I would be looking to find her a home where she can do what she does best. You can be picky and make sure that it’s the right home, but to the right person she’s worth her weight in gold.

 

[Highmileagecob]

My old cob is/or was always the alpha in the herd. The one who would square up and go and investigate anything out of the ordinary, the one who would roll his sleeves up and sort out a bolshy youngster etc.. He will hack anywhere alone or in company, and will happily lead. Others in the herd just do not want the responsibility, and are happy to stay out of the skirmish. or stay behind the ride leader. If we tried to get my friend's mare to lead on a ride out, she always felt she had to justify being in the lead by finding something to spook at, thoroughly frightening herself in the process, and nearly unseating the rider. Some are leaders, some are followers.

 

[ycbm]

If only…..

Ponying isn’t great where we are because the roads to the park are narrow and busy, so you’d be a bit of a traffic hazard.

I don't see the connection between that and training to hack solo being about rider confidence? Did you mean to quote me, CI?

 

[Clodagh]

My sons first pony just never went off lead. Even if I got on him (in extremis, poor pony) he just didn’t have the oompf/savvy/mindset. He was an ok lead rein and would hack out beautifully as long as he thought he was attached to me on my horse.
We then got a first ridden who made me realise what an exceptional job they do and that they are worth their weight in gold. She’d have been bored rigid on a lead rein.