When do you know that you've come to the end with a laminitic?

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Hi all - I have a companion pony who is chronic laminitic. Every year it's been a battle (I've had her for four years, and she's late 20's), as she came to me with it. Other than this she is generally doing ok, although she isn't ridden or worked at all. Ordinarily, she goes out muzzled for about 5 hours a day, and then lives in an open yard and barn with hay through the day. Three weeks ago she had an attack - first this year - and so I followed the usual procedure. Whipped her off the grass, deep shavings, small amounts of soaked hay, bute. Vet came and took off her shoes as there was a slight suspicion it might have been abscess, although it wasn't. She's been kept like this now for near three weeks and is certainly better than she was, so today the farrier put a combination shoe on as opposed to a heart bar, as he said he felt she'd benefit more from it. Thing is her soles have become very soft indeed, so of course I'm concerned that there has been movement within the foot. She was x -rayed last year and there was slight rotation. When the shoes went on today she seemed to find it very painful. Problem is I'm not really getting much in the way of solid advice from the vet - and if her life is to be one of stuck in the barn and never being able to see grass, I can't help but think that this is no life. What would you do?
 
If she's got a nice yard to wander about in and isn't on her own then I wouldn't worry about her never seeing (or eating!) grass again. I'd much rather turn mine out permanently on gravel/hardstanding than grass but have to make do with a rented field. It's a very human thing feeling bad depriving them of grass but as long as she has plenty of soaked hay then she'll be happy. UK grass is so unnatural for horses that they'd all benefit from much less of it!

Personally I wouldn't put shoes on a laminitic (but then I wouldn't put shoes on anything!) - but nailing into an already painful and stressed foot seems illogical. They certainly do nothing to prevent pedal bone rotation or sinking. Also rotation is not the end of the world and plenty of horses regrow a healthy foot post rotation.

The best thing I can suggest is get a copy of Founder: Prevention & Cure the Natural Way by Jaime Jackson. It's the best book you can get on laminitis. Read it cover to cover and then follow the advice. It's worked for thousands of horses and also talks about when the right time to end things might be.
 
Tell your vet you want a prescription writing for pergolide (that's the bottom line, sugar coat it and discuss as much as you like). I bet Cushing's might be playing a part in the appearance of laminitis and can be the turning point.

I'm wondering why the vet, rather than the farrier took the shoes off, and I might have fitted frog supports in the first instance.

Anyway, bring the vet conversation round to Cushing's and pergolide - forget tests, my vet prescribed it on the grounds of likelihood and outward signs. Rough dose for a 12 hands pony 500mcg/0.5mg per day. Bought from a regular chemist, if you get a few quotes, £40 per 100 x 1mg strength (with a very handy 'score line' in the centre of the tablet!)

Give it a go if the pony stays relatively comfy and it may make all the difference. Good luck and look around on here for posts about this subject.
 
I got to a point where my mare couldn't actually tolerate more than 3 hours of grass a day.

She was getting less and less happy so I had her PTS. Hard decision but she was only 8 and she had a long time of not being happy ahead of her otherwise :(

ETS Mare was on Pergolide and she was confirmed Cushings. Unfortunately it didn't help her.
 
I'd vote imprint shoes all the way...expensive but do the job.

Our laminitic, we knew it was the end when he'd been down for 3 days solid and just wasn't getting up again sadly, and then stopped eating. Got bloods done again as soon as he went off his food as it was so unlike him, and showed his internal systems were shutting down.
If I could redo it, I wouldn't have put him through trying to fight it again.

Have you xrayed her again now? A few weeks of xrays being apart can be the difference between having virtually no rotation, to full blown rotation.
 
When their quality of life becomes non existent and when the attacks become more frequent.

A retired horse that cannot graze even for a few hours a day does not really have a good quality life although each individual horse is different.

Mine was not happy unable to work nor being turned out.

Also I think when it starts taking it's toll on the owner.
 
Having had 3 laminitics over the years, I am very much of the opinion that this is a systemic condition akin to type II diabetes melitus in humans, that has very little to do with how much grass they get (2 of mine had their first attack in the winter when they had only be turned out in a menage for the last month.). I wouldn't ever put a horse thru all that treatment/box rest/ pain ever again. This is my major reason for never having another welsh cob - as I believe (rightly or wrongly) that they are genetically predisposed to the condition.

Every horse is different and I'd let a horse of mine have one attack and one course of treatment but if that didn't work then I would PTS... IT's a horrible condition taht is so poorly understood which TBH makes me really angry.

Blitz
 
Have to say I agree entirely with your post blitznbobs.

I would be very much quicker to put a horse with laminitis down.

I also went for very different breeding with my new horse a lot of my choice being influenced by laminitis.

If I find one spot of even a crest on my mare she is in, that's all there is to it. What makes me angry is people with awful cresty animals that just leave them out anyway.

I am still so angry that I actually tend to stay away from laminitis posts tbh. It's too raw.
 
Gosh this is a difficult one: I had a laminitic with cushings, and we'd got to the stage where he was just getting endless absesses in the foot, and then the coronary band started to abscess. It was awful, just horrendous, and we'd tried ACP which was terribly expensive, which I couldn't really afford but had to try it.

There was an occasion when the vet came and he was lying down, just didn't want to get up, and he'd just given up basically, had stopped eating that morning and was lying in his poo - so we made the decision to PTS as really there was no other choice.

Bless him, he was a lovely boy and I wouldn't have wished him to come to this end, but the Cushings was the underlying problem, and I remember how his coat always used to be coming through at the "wrong" time, or odd times, from when he was about 17 years old, which apparently indicates an early onset of cushings.

You've got a very difficult choice to make. If the pony seems happy in itself, has a bright eye and a generally contented disposition, then I'd hang on in there; however if its in constant pain, looks unhappy, or isn't getting the most out of life, then personally I'd PTS. Some horses know they've had enough, others will fight on, but I think the issue of pain and also quality of life is the things that will indicate what you should do.
 
I would be going down the line of Cushings and discuss with the Vet re prescribing Pergolide. It has been a life saver with my old Cushings boy and over 4 years on we are doing well. You cannot lose anything by trying out the Pergolide route and it may do the trick ..... I wish you well.
 
Thanks all.

I have the vet coming to re x-ray and yes, I'll talk about the Cushings potential too. She does seem happy mentally (she's whinnying and foraging, not that there's anything for her to forage), but she is clearly in a lot of foot pain and her soles really are frighteningly spongy. I do feel as though I'm in a terrible position with her - and I hate the thought that if I might rush her end (albeit with kind intentions), and likewise prolong her pain (albeit with kind intentions). In a way, I wish it was more clear cut.

But, this is one of the major responsibilities of horse ownership I know, so I have to find the courage to make the right decision. Anyway, will let you know what the vet says - again!
 
Antibiotic spray (mine is green) sprayed onto the soles helps them to harden, which also helps them support the pedal bone. Mine also now has a heart bar shoe with a mesh and a rubber like substance onto that with about a 1/4 of the sole showing at the toe. Hope that makes sense.
Every case is different tho and as long as your pony is happy between attacks and has a good quality of life then I see no real reason to pts, on the other hand if the pony is unhappy, and you can usually tell, then you'l know when its the end of the road.
 
You need to get your vet to determine what is initiating these outbreaks and a blood test may help.

Rubber Foot supports should be fitted.

Shoes should not be put on your horse until it has been sound for at least 4 weeks.

If your horse is suffering from Cushins then giving Pergolide daily may help.

I would suggest that you take a look at the Laminitis Clinic (Robert Eustace) web site as this will help you.
 
Do you have any access to a sand/rubber school?

I have a pony who gets laminitis at the sight of grass, so a couple of years ago we built a small sand school (It was meant to be 20x40, but I think its more like 18x36, not sure though). She now gets turned out into it every day, with a pile of hay. She never gets out to graze but she seems happy being outside with the other horses across the fence and enough room to stretch her legs should she wish to. Since she has been in there she hasn't had laminitis at all and the condition of her hooves has improved greatly, the farrier is very impressed. I am pretty sure that if we had continued to allow her access to grass she would not be here today.

Good luck, and I so hope she gets better. Finger crossed.
 
I had a cob who had 2 attacks of laminitis, the 1st at 20yrs old complete suprise but after usual treatment came right. The 2nd attack a few years later was much worse and we thought we were going to loose her. Again usual lami treatment but only difference is that I had a few health issues and was taking Yakult so decided to give it a try on her. Vet thought we would loose her and did everything he could but was totally amazed at the diiference of her after 1 week. Told him I was feeding her 1 Yakult a day and he couldn't believe it.
This is no joke and I may have just been lucky but she was then put on 1 yakult a day but turned out 24x7 for the rest of her life with no other attacks. She unfortunately suffered a stroke in the field at the age of 31 but she happily hacked out once or twice a week right up until then.
Vet doesn't understand how she came through and never had another attack and he has told other clients to try Yakult and he still comes back to me with good news be it colicky horses or Lami or cushings.
i hope your horse is ok and good luck.
 
I knew that it was the end for a few reasons:-

I felt that my horse had given up, it's a cliche but I could see it in her eyes, she'd been on box rest for three months away from her pair bond and she was lonely. She was 24yrs and had given me so much happiness over the six years that I owned her, I didn't want to spend the rest of her years stuck in a stable or on a patch of concrete with a haynet.

I'd already said I wouldn't put her through it again if she ever got another attack so when the vet said the laminitis was back I knew what decision needed to be made.

This is the hardest one to admit to, personally I couldn't put myself through anymore stress and heartbreak and also financially it was crippling me. She wasn't insured due to her age and I think in total I spent nearly four thousand on vet bills, shavings (she was having four new bales in a week), imprint shoes etc etc and I don't regret spending it at all but it was very tough on my wages.

You can only do what is right for you and your pony. It makes me want to cry to even think about those three months and the period after I lost my beautiful girl but I know for me and her it was the right decision, I take comfort that she's up in horse heaven munching on the biggest field of lush grass that you can imagine!! RIP amy, I'll never ever forget you xx
 
I really feel for you :(

I am in the same situation at the minute; the vet and farrier could not agree on what they were going to do (they knew there was slight rotation already) - however, 2 weeks late(r), the farrier has now decided that he wants to see the x-rays and re-shoe from that...we are fuming he's left it this long.

However our girl (16 years young) is still very happy in herself, she's still bolshy, very vocal, eating as well as always and although she is still lame, she is visibly more comfortable than she was. I'd say definitely get the x-rays and get the vet and farrier to agree first on what needs to be done - they've decided to trim Kelly's toes right back, drop her heel and make the heart bar more central on her frog. I can only hope this helps and prevents further rotation.

I really hope you (and me!) get sorted - like someone has said previously and I have heard many times, lots of horses with rotation have lived happy and full lives once the necessary measures have been taken.
Good luck
K x
 
I really feel for you ((hugs))

My mare was diagnosed with laminitis at the end of March, she is 16.1hh and a big noned girl. She's been stabled now for just over 3months, is on medication, has her 4th set of Imprint shoes on and has been blood tested. At the moment I see no improvement - she is comfortable, happy and has a lovely shine to her coat.....but I am still waiting for her to get better.

I keep wondering how long is this going to last, is it ever going to improve. I'm fine most days but this week I'm really down.
 
Lotty said:
I keep wondering how long is this going to last, is it ever going to improve. I'm fine most days but this week I'm really down.
Click to expand...

definitely cross post - this week has been a bad one for us too, can't wait for it to end.
*hugs* all in it together! We will all get there.
We know our own ponies and they will tell us when they've had enough xx
 
I was at wits end with my Daughter's pony he was getting new bouts whilst being on box rest recovering. In the end our wonderful vet did the suppression test and rulled out cushings but it pointed to insulin resiliant. Now 5 years + on and a daily dose of metformin and careful management he has not had another bout since. Worth a try. I really hope you find an answer xx
 
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