When do you know to give up with a horse?

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I was looking for some advice really.

Hannah is becoming increasingly stroppy, partially due to the fact she is coming into season/is in season/is coming out of season
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But also, I do think she does not have the attitude to 'work'. She is so argumentative about absolutely everything I ask of her, whether that is to stretch down and work long and low, work a little more up into the bridle, or simply walk
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She gets her knickers in a total twist for no reason whatsoever (example - this morning I was trotting her in a lovely outline, she stuck her head in the air and tried buggering off, but when I half halted to get her back she slammed on and spun her arse around
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).

All three of us (Grace, Han and I) are off to the chiro today to have a check up, but I honestly do not expect to find anything because she can do beautifully when she wants to!

I have a lesson booked with Spencer next week and I am going to have a chat with him about her, and I had hoped to have a few lessons soon with David Lannon as he can come out to the yard and this is where she seems worse, at home!

But, have you ever had to just admit the fact that your horse does not want to do the discipline you enjoy?
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I did with my last horse and it was with the help of my instructor that we decided she was never able to do the job i wanted to do.
 
Some times horses arent up to the job you want them for, ive sold a few due to them not wanting to event and im not sure whether Spider will ever enjoy XC (we will see nxt year!) and if she doesnt then I wont push it with her I will just SJ and dressage her.

But I do think it can be a bit different with dressage, as most horses can do this to a certain degree, if she has the work there and you see glimmers of it I would continue and put alot of hard work into it im sure it will pay off, what have you got to loose? And im sure in the end you will be glad you persevered
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And did you sell the horse?

It would absolutely break my heart if I sold her, she is such a big part of my life and up until recently we got on so well. But since coming back from having a foal she has just had this 'I know best' attitude, which was not present before she had him!

Before she had Troy she was doing some lovely elementary work, but I don't feel she would do a decent elementary test at the moment (although she did always work better when she had more to do). Before having Troy we were starting half pass and she was great at it, but I have been told to just concentrate on the basics at the moment rather than work on the lateral work (which I always found helped)...

Han is never going to be a world beating dressage horse, I know that more than anyone because she is not built for the job, but I had real hopes of getting her happily competing at medium.
 
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What else does she enjoy, does she jump, hack etc?

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She loves hacking out, she gets very giddy and seems to really enjoy it... and now the nights are lighter and the mornings not as grim, I was intending to start going out more. It is difficult when Grace has to be ridden too time wise, but I thought twice a week we could go out.

As for jumping, she has not jumped since she was in foal... yes she loves it, but I have been worried about jumping her until she was fitter, which I suppose she is now so might do some pole work with her to start off with.
 
I did sell her and still know where she is. However I think it made it worse knowing how she is. It was a really hard desision I will also add that Clover was NEVER any good at dressage and sustained an injury that menat she did not want to jump either so it is a different case to yours. he fact that you had nice work before might just be that she needs more time to adjust after the foal?
 
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Some times horses arent up to the job you want them for, ive sold a few due to them not wanting to event and im not sure whether Spider will ever enjoy XC (we will see nxt year!) and if she doesnt then I wont push it with her I will just SJ and dressage her.

But I do think it can be a bit different with dressage, as most horses can do this to a certain degree, if she has the work there and you see glimmers of it I would continue and put alot of hard work into it im sure it will pay off, what have you got to loose? And im sure in the end you will be glad you persevered
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I agree that most can do the dressage to a degree, which is why she is so bloody frustrating. She can do the half pass in walk, trot and canter, she can do the leg yielding and shoulder in, but if she is being argumentative with the basics then we are going to struggle with the lateral work.

She is very argumentative about everything... I want her to trot on a bit, she starts cantering on the spot (literally), I want her to canter and she wants to be a prat!!!
 
the questions has to be 'have you had enough of putting in the work and getting problems thrown back at u?' if you have had enough then mayb try some alternatives to give u both a break, a good trainer will work with u and let u kno honestly whether u r wasting your time!! is it that most talented horses r a little (or a lot) quirky???
 
I know exactly how you feel and it is a horrible decision to make.

Two years ago, Maddie was diagnosed with trauma induced OCD in one hock.

I was gutted but it was actually a blessing in disguise, I had tried for ages to 'get on' with her, when in truth as lovely as she was she was not the horse for me. I had bought her as a potential eventer in the days when I was still eventing but by the time she was broken I was old and windy
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Mark rode her virtually all the time and I would mainly hack her or potter around in the school. I knew in my heart of hearts she was not the horse for me but I had made such a big commitment in buying her as a foal I felt I was failing by giving up.

Sending her to stud was my 'get out of jail free' card. She needed time for the hock to fuse and it meant that she was not able to do what we wanted and so the decision was made for me.

Her foal is due on 28th March, I don't think we will bring her back into work as Mark no longer events and she is a real event type, the stud have already got a sire in mind for this year's covering. She is a stunning mare with a lovlely trainable attitude so she should have lovely babies.

I think you get to a point when you just know -end of
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Mares can be different after they have had foals. I think unless you are very lucky mares are just like this sometimes, Corroy has been foul all week. Last night she decided to play ball. I don't get upset about it anymore, after having her for 8 years, I have decided that is who she is, sometimes she is good, sometimes she is bad.
 
Horses do not behave like this for no reason consistently. Sounds like pain really!...have you had the saddle checked recently? Having had a foal she may well be far to wide for her saddle. and I would get a vet to check her over and then a proper physio.
 
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What else does she enjoy, does she jump, hack etc?

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She loves hacking out, she gets very giddy and seems to really enjoy it... and now the nights are lighter and the mornings not as grim, I was intending to start going out more. It is difficult when Grace has to be ridden too time wise, but I thought twice a week we could go out.

As for jumping, she has not jumped since she was in foal... yes she loves it, but I have been worried about jumping her until she was fitter, which I suppose she is now so might do some pole work with her to start off with.

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I understand its hard BUT I work 8.30-4.30pm and ride Dexter every day (event fit) and I have to ride Spider every day. And I make sure I vary their work, I think its something that just has to be done
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When it has reared over backwards with you 3 times and then goes straight up every time you put your leg on, though is fine if your leg is off and someone leads it. When you have had £1800 of investigative vet work done which has pin-pointed nothing wrong, your chiropractor says he is going to call his next horse 'Spottedcat's Investment' because he sees so much of you and you go home in tears every night. When it just is not fun any more. When you try a new horse and it makes you smile and you remember why you think keeping such a money pit as a horse is a good idea.
 
My horse isn't really up for what I want to do anymore. So when I'm back riding I'm going to find someone to part loan him who still wants to do things with him but who is happier to settle for the lower level stuff. Then I'm going to go and buy my self something that is up to the job
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When it has reared over backwards with you 3 times and then goes straight up every time you put your leg on, though is fine if your leg is off and someone leads it. When you have had £1800 of investigative vet work done which has pin-pointed nothing wrong, your chiropractor says he is going to call his next horse 'Spottedcat's Investment' because he sees so much of you and you go home in tears every night. When it just is not fun any more. When you try a new horse and it makes you smile and you remember why you think keeping such a money pit as a horse is a good idea.

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Blimey you sound the twin of me lol...last mare had the same issues, £3500 with the vet later and not alot to show for it, then i rode star and fell in love all over again!!! lol....

But in regards to Becki - i do hope you dont give up just yet, how long has she been back in work??? Mares are mares and a nightmare at the best of times, you know there are days they will just not do anything you want....

Maybe make your next investment in a gelding??? less agro lol
 
Thank you everyone... I do agree that mares can just be like this, Hannah is the living proof of that. Having just received some PMs, I think the next stage is to try her on a oestress type supplement (she used to be on one pre-Troy) and really just keep at it with her. She is better when she has not had days off, the more she is worked the better she does seem, although not sure what today was about because she has been worked all week bar one day.

The thing is, when Han gets it right, she really does look and feel great! It is just those moments have been few and far between lately. Perhaps she is getting annoyed because I am not letting her off like I used to as my riding has come on a lot since she was last in full work through lessons with Grace... we are at loggerheads and one has to give in eventually don't they???

Like I said, I can almost guarantee this is NOT pain related... her teeth were done in November (she is 12 now), her saddle done last week as I know how much she is changing, and her back is being looked at today. But, I do not expect anything to be found as like I said, she has always had this side to her, but definitely more so since coming back.
 
Look at it from her point of view: she's had a year off munching grass and having a high old time. Now you expect her to work again, and it's hard! All horses throw those strops if you push them to progress - it's natural.....she's just checking to see if you'll back off and put erh back in that lovely field again
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Look at it from her point of view: she's had a year off munching grass and having a high old time. Now you expect her to work again, and it's hard! All horses throw those strops if you push them to progress - it's natural.....she's just checking to see if you'll back off and put erh back in that lovely field again
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Exactly!
 
Dressage is so hard on a horse that doesn't want to play [ or concentrate]Our coloured ,[who we bred ] is a nightmare ,he is so talented but can be so tense ,luckily we were able to transfer to eventing,he can do a reasonable test in the middle of a field but when things are close to him in an indoor school he takes the mick.
I hope you get sorted out
 
I think you've answered your own question. If she is hating flatwork, being stroppy and not wanting to co-operate, but she enjoys other work, such as hacking/jumping then I think she is telling you she doesn't like dressage!

So you have 2 options, 1. hack/jump her and do what she enjoys or 2. if you don't want to be doing that sell her to a home that will want to do that.

Or have you tried schooling her a lot less. So prehaps only school her once a week?! And the other days hacking and jumping?

It's extremely hard but it's only fair on her!
 
The thing is, I don't think she does hate dressage
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Before having Troy, her elementary tests were really nice, some high marks (ok, only unaffil but many times we were judged by affil judges) and promising comments.

Out competing she is no where near as bad as she is at home, it is almost as if familiarity gives her an excuse to play up. Does that make sense?

I have been schooling her quite a bit due to the time aspect, but she is also lunged in a pessoa a few times a week and given a day off to just be a horse. We do not have much turnout where I am at the moment (it was a temporary solution due to other circumstances), so she is not getting out in the field that much, and when she does it is on her own. Because of this, I try to free school her a few mornings a week (then ride in the evening), and she is tied up while I muck out so she can interact with other horses.
 
Also, forgot to add... I couldn't sell her! When I bought her I promised her a home for life. In less than six months she had sent to a dealer in Ireland, then shipped over from Ireland to a dealer over here, bought by a lady and then bought by me! She had so many issues about moving because of this, including a real fear of loading which I have overcome ever so slowly and in her own time. I don't think I could bare to sell her for the fear that she would once again have this kind of 'nomad' life, it really screwed up her head for a while.

But because I have moved her and remained constant, she is now much more settled about the idea of moving.
 
Becki I don't think you need to sell her! I think she is doing what all horses do! Mine went through a phase of it recnetly, I messed about with his feed and have just given him a week off and as of tonight he'll be back into it again. Yes, sure there will be days when he has a bit of a strop, but can you name one person on here who has a half decent competition horse which never, ever tries an evasion or has a bit of a toys out of pram moment? Coz I sure as hell can't!
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No, I can't either... it is just so damn frustrating when it is your horse doing it
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I have a few options now, thanks to some replies on here and some PM's...

Plan 1 - I have just bought some Oestress so she will be going on that. She has always been difficult when she is in season, used to be Regumate for a few summers, so I don't know why I didn't think of it before to be honest.

Plan 2 - I am in the process of booking some lessons with David Lannon who is a BD judge and will come out to me. As mentioned, Han is worse at home where things are familiar to her, so this should work well alongside my lessons with Spencer (who, incidentally, thinks she is very intelligent but able to do what I want her to do).

Plan 3 - have another foal from her because she was an absolute sweetheart to ride when she was in foal
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it sounds like she just needs a bit of variety really. more hacking out and add some pole work/jumping too, if she is fit enough to go out and compete she can manage a few jumps.!
i think she is adjusting to being back in work after a long rest, if she has moments where she is very good then surely that is a sign she does like dressage.? if she didn't like it then would she not be uncooprative (sp) all the time in the school.??
i know its harder in the winter to get out of the school but now the days are getting longer you can start to vary her routine more. i try not to do more than 2 days in a row in the school (flatwork)when its not winter and i have noticed that Andy is much happier to buckle down and work on the flat a fews days after a jump/canter session.!!
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don't write her off just yet...
 
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Plan 3 - have another foal from her because she was an absolute sweetheart to ride when she was in foal

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im not being funny, but what would you do with 4 horses, when you have hardly got time for 2??!!
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