When does backed become broken?

[blitznbobs]

Discuss... I’m not sure I know any more

 

[Red-1]

Backed is when they will go/stop and steer when there is nothing much going on. The horse will be flat and not ridden by weight/intent but by a nudge and a tug. I would still expect a walk/trot and canter.

Broken is where they can focus on you, have some idea of balance from influence the rider, as in the rein/leg may be to do with balance rather than just go faster or slower. They will be able to concentrate on the rider in a variety of situations.

 

[ycbm]

Oooh, great question!

For me it's backed when it accepts a rider in walk and trot and stops and starts when told with a very clear signal. I'm not sure whether or not I would have to include canter. I think possibly not. .


It's broken when:

The horse can be mounted on a normal day without having to lunge it first.

It starts, stops, moves up and down the paces, bends on circles and is reasonably straight on straights, has a basic leg yield, will slow within a pace, all at the first request without throwing a strop.


I might change my mind later, it's a very difficult question!


..

 

[tristar]

broken is when you get on it, ride it it in any direction at whatever speed you ask for in walk trot and canter and it will stop (most important bit) it is then a broken but green horse, as it responds by performing in a natural way as opposed to a schooled horse who has been refined and educated and `finished`ready to perform a specific job

 

[JFTDWS]

Backed is when they will go/stop and steer when there is nothing much going on. The horse will be flat and not ridden by weight/intent but by a nudge and a tug. I would still expect a walk/trot and canter.

Broken is where they can focus on you, have some idea of balance from influence the rider, as in the rein/leg may be to do with balance rather than just go faster or slower. They will be able to concentrate on the rider in a variety of situations.

By that logic, I think lots of horses never make it from backed to broken!

I would generally assume that backed means it's accepting a rider, in walk / trot / possibly just on the lunge. Broken is a vague term - I don't use it much because it seems to mean anything from free range in walk/trot/canter with a start and a stop of some description, through to a basically schooled horse.

 

[stormox]

To me, 'backed' is the horse will accept a rider happily on its back but hasnt yet learnt the aids. I hesitate to use the word 'broken' at all - I prefer 'ridden on' as meaning the horse does more than accept the rider on its back, it will accept leg/rein aids and obey basic commands given by that rider and be willing to learn.

 

[ihatework]

It’s pretty subjective and I probably wouldn’t assume anything.

If I were using the terms I would use backed far more readily, and it really would refer to a very raw horse that has accepted a rider on board and vaguely stops/gos/turns.

The term broken covers anything from what I would class as backed to something with more education

 

[poiuytrewq]

To me, 'backed' is the horse will accept a rider happily on its back but hasnt yet learnt the aids. I hesitate to use the word 'broken' at all - I prefer 'ridden on' as meaning the horse does more than accept the rider on its back, it will accept leg/rein aids and obey basic commands given by that rider and be willing to learn.

I’d agree with this

 

[Red-1]

By that logic, I think lots of horses never make it from backed to broken!

I don't disagree with you there!

 

[Mule]

I thought they both meant the same thing. Your learn something new everyday.

 

[Gloi]

Except on DD when backed means they put their kid on it bareback in a halter and broken means they put a saddle and bridle on it and it followed their other horse up the lane.

 

[Ambers Echo]

I dislike the term 'broken'. I generally use backing to mean the process of getting on for the first few times. Like bitting. And then riding away for the next few weeks. And then producing which is the bit I am not skilled enough to do! But one process merges into another.

 

[Lintel]

For me backed is basic gaits with a rider weight. Stop and steer in place. Still uncertain of aids.

Broken is basic gaits but now balanced beginning to accept contact, stop and steer are set in stone. Understanding of aids.

 

[DabDab]

I dislike the term 'broken'. I generally use backing to mean the process of getting on for the first few times. Like bitting. And then riding away for the next few weeks. And then producing which is the bit I am not skilled enough to do! But one process merges into another.

Yep this. I use backed to replace the old term broken. And then ridden away is when they have become straightforward to walk, trot, do basic lateral work, hack out.

 

[Follysmum]

Deleted

 

[AdorableAlice]

Depends on who is doing the job.

Go to Ireland and the hunter you are viewing will have had the tack on the weekend before and be a made hunter by the next weekend

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Depends on who is doing the job.

Go to Ireland and the hunter you are viewing will have had the tack on the weekend before and be a made hunter by the next weekend

Yes but the Irish are mad crazy barstewards who will take anything out hunting! Not always a bad thing ... It keeps the horse going forwards and it will be so knackered at the end of the day it just accepts life with a rider lol! As for jumping - well the horse will be able to get from one side to the other in a fashion!

 

[tallyho!]

I dislike the term 'broken'. I generally use backing to mean the process of getting on for the first few times. Like bitting. And then riding away for the next few weeks. And then producing which is the bit I am not skilled enough to do! But one process merges into another.

Ooh yes I’d have to agree... broken gives connotations of breaking a horses spirit and generally I don’t use it nor does anyone in my riding circles. I use backed to mean the education of having a rider dictate what you do and where you go with all the contraptions that go with it (hopefully nothing more than saddle and a simple bridle)... what more do you need? After that it’s schooling surely?

 

[Jellymoon]

I actually thibk they mean the same thing, but ‘backed’ is the more modern, pc term these days. ‘Backed and ridden away’ to me would mean they are out hacking.

 

[Jellymoon]

Yes, agree with Amber’s Echo, I wouldn’t say anymore that I’m ‘breaking in’ a horse, I would say I’m ‘backing’ it. But to me they are exactly the same. Anything after the horse has been backed is schooling/producing.

 

[blitznbobs]

I like the terms (as described above) of ‘backed ‘ ‘ridden away’ and ‘produced’ much better ... perhaps it’s time the nomenclature evolved... I have also decided that I am too old to produce horses any more!

 

[tristar]

next thing you know it will be illegal to use the word breaking, but i think it instills the sober thought of the gravity of what is taking place, and not to take for granted that the thing won`t explode at some point

 

[The-Bookworm]

I use the term backed for getting used to tack, weight of the rider and the aids in walk which are probably exaggerated to make it all easier. Go, stop, turn, stand.
Riding on quietly includes trot and canter and some basic school patterns, huge circles, introductions to poles. Hacking out, alone and in company, front or last.
The horse has possibly thrown you off, done some epic spins, the odd rear, the odd buck and the odd nap, maybe even took off. I expect that with a youngster and it took mine a little while to grow up and mature.

Schooled a long long way down the road which probably takes two or three years after all the basics?

I seem to recall somewhere someone saying that there are two types of rider. Those who back and bring on the uneducated and unbalanced and those who balance and educate.

 

[Imogen Rose]

I have two youngsters at the moment.
One has had a saddle on 3 times, I have sat on and asked to go forward,and we didn't get an explosion. I would call him just backed.
My other one, will hack quietly, will w/t/c with a slight squeeze and voice command. Will come back to a halt and step back with a lifting of the hands and rocking hips back. Will turn with a hip/ shoulder twist when listening. Needs a waggle with the rein when looking elsewhere. I would think of her as backed and ridden away.

 

[JFTDWS]

Blimey, I don't "expect" rears, spins, bucking or knobbing off with any youngster I've done. I certainly wouldn't expect to be thrown off. A bit of wobbling, getting to grips with the idea, but not significant misbehaviour - that suggests there is something amiss with the training, the horse, or the tack to me. They say 99% of what you do with a baby horse should be sinfully boring to watch - really deadly dull to watch. I think people forget that, sometimes...

 

[DabDab]

Mmm, agree. I've backed tons of horses and only ever had one explode on me, and he was a do-over job after two failed backings previously. I generally find that it's a good 6 months into ridden work before they start knobbing around/have a minor crisis of confidence if they're going to at all

 

[The-Bookworm]

Maybe it's training, maybe it's the horses character and opinions.
She's not an easy ride.

 

[DabDab]

Maybe it's training, maybe it's the horses character and opinions.
She's not an easy ride.

Oh no, wasn't responding to your post

My own horses are no angels - little mare is well into the know-it-all phase right now and is very quick to scowl at me (she has big expressive ears) if I'm not constantly telling her how wonderful she is. And big horse is a perennial idiot. He pretty much defines goofy and melodramatic (though his antics are mainly confined to the field these days)

 

[Lois Lame]

I would have assumed that 'backed' meant little more than having had a saddle on, then a rider (first just laying then eventually sitting on the horse) but little else. I don't think I'd even assume that the horse had been 'mouthed', whatever 'mouthed' is.

Too much can be hidden by using jargon. Nothing like a good talk with the person to get to the bottom of what's been done, if the person is telling the truth, of course.

 

[Lois Lame]

Whoops, I forgot breaking. Breaking to me is the mouthing, backing, teaching of the aids and that first little bit of riding.

Then, with regular riding, the horse will start to find his balance (providing the rider is balanced).