When does care end and "mollycoddling" begin?

PolarSkye

PolarSkye

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The "moddlycoddling" thread got me thinking . . . and, FWIW, fuming.

People buy and keep horses for many different reasons - they are no longer working animals in the way that phrase was interpreted 100 (or even 50) years ago - we don't need them to pull our ploughs, be our main form of transportation or transport our goods (or us) any more . . . so pretty much every "job" a horse now has is as a form of recreation and pleasure for humans.

With this in mind, what on earth was that thread about? Yes, cuddling is unnecessary and not something horses do to each other - but a) they do show each other affection; b) I believe horses learn to recognize, and appreciate, affection from humans; c) being affectionate to our horses comes naturally to humans and is part of the "contract;" and d) what harm does it do?

Yes, horses should (and in fact must - for our safety and for theirs) learn manners. Yes, horses should be respectful of their human handlers - they are much, much bigger and stronger than we - with four feet on the end of four strong legs and a formidable set of teeth on the end of a strong muscular neck. Yes, human skin is different from horse skin and it's wise to teach horses that treating humans like their equine friends is - to put it bluntly - not on.

But - there should, I believe, be room for affection too . . . and most, if not all, of how we treat horses is not natural anyway. If it isn't natural to sit on their backs and put a piece of steel in their mouths, then does it matter if it's not natural to clip them and then rug them, or feed them supplements to help promote poor horn growth if their feet are awful, or give them a kiss or a scratch (or a treat for that matter) for behaving well - or just because?

Where does care end and mollycoddling begin? The answer of course is another question - how long is a piece of string?!

Kal brushes behind - it's down to his conformation - certainly nothing I can help. Am I mollycoddling him because I turn him out in brushing boots behind and overreach boots in front? Of course not - I am keeping him safe and injury free. He doesn't grow much of a coat - it's down to his type (sport horse, heavy on the TB) - and he's prone to dropping weight in the winter. Am I mollycoddling him because I rug him up? No, I'm ensuring he stays warm and in good condition through the winter months without getting too sweaty and uncomfortable when worked. When we had our two native mares, we cared for them in a completely different way - they lived out, unclipped, unrugged in all weathers and lived pretty much on fresh air.

The thing is, there are two issues here: 1) There is no "one size fits all" solution for every horse - just because you wouldn't (or don't need or choose to) rug, shoe, go barefoot, feed supplements, play Parelli games (I wish people would learn to spell it if they're going to wax lyrical about its lack of merits - and, no, I am not a practioner), bandage, bathe, , clip, not clip, cuddle, treat, etc., doesn't make you right (or wrong, for that matter). 2) The "job" we ask our horses to do has changed . . . their job is to be our partners in recreation . . . we own them because (to some degree) they make us feel good. Unless we're serious competitors, there is no real "need" - only a want to own and ride them . . . we ride them because it makes us happy - we enjoy it. So is it so much of a stretch to say that, in addition, we give them affection and/or pamper them because it makes us happy/feel good?

Why is the horse world so polarized? Why do so many otherwise intelligent people not only actively disagree with anyone who doesn't do things the same way they do, but actually denigrate them? It's a mystery to me, and I find it quite unsavoury.

P
 
There is a big difference between mollycoddling and giving care. The well cared for horse is more likely to be sane, healthy and a pleasure to be around.
The mollycoddled horse is more likely to be the vet's best friend, the feed merchants best friend, the rug makers best friend and the horse behaviourists best friend.

Take two TB horses;
The first is stabled all year round with limited individual turnout. It is rugged, to keep clean in summer and wears layers of rugs in winter to keep warm. It is fed hard feed and an array of supplements, booted for every occasion when not in its box. Washed frequently and fully groomed every day. It never feels the rain on its back or gets to roll in the dirt, or run with a herd.

The second TB, lives out 24/7. Lives on grass with hay in the field in winter. Gets a simple feed if in work. Only clipped if in regular work and then only clipped enough to maintain condition.Rugged only enough to maintain condition, not to feel toasty warm. Otherwise, lives unrugged, living out through snow and rain in an established herd. On rainy days, gets the saddle and girth area dried off and is ridden in all weathers.

Which one as a general rule is more likely to be healthier ?

Which
 
I agree with OP!! i was thinking the same when i was reading it! I rug my boy when it rains because he is old (26 yrs old) and he feels the cold. Even if I think its warm and its raining, if i leave him unrugged and he gets wet, i can pretty much guarantee that he will be shivering when i get there. I dont see this as mollycoddling. I do it to stop him getting cold (leading on to him being miserable) and losing weight (which he does very easily!) I think somethings that are seen as mollycoddling for some horses are not for others.
 
Yes, very well said. The horse world is SO polarized. So is this forum. With a few exceptions there appear to be two camps:

Hard (very much old school - hunt, PTS by shooting, no field ornaments etc) and
Soft (anyone in this camp are called bunny huggers).
 
Care and also mollycoddling can also be put together in the one word 'convenience'.

Its more (possibly) convenient for the working owner to:

Bring their horses in at night in winter so they can see them in some form of light.

Stabled in winter so they dont have to walk though mud/scrape off mud.

Bring them in, in summer out of the flies - making it convenient to have them to hand to ride after work.

Rug on & off all yr round when wet, so they can put a saddle on a dry back.

Rug in winter, so they can do more work than riding a horse with a full winter coat.

But hey - horse for courses ;) :D ('scuse the pun!) each to their own eh?
Everyone manages differently & what is the 'right way' for person A is totally alien to person B.

Am sure there is always someone posting to say 'glad my horse is in', during cold torrential rain mid afternoon in November, whilst others are anxiously looking out of the window thinking 'I wish I'd put that rug on' or possibly 'How long till I finish here at work?'

Debate away :)
 
If it makes you happy, who cares.
My mare is a bit of a spoilt cow and has more rugs than the other horses on the yard put together and I do realise that 1 horse does not need 27 different rugs, but I enjoy buying them and she quite obviously likes getting them covered in mud or poo.
At the same time she is well mannered (although to be fair 18 years ago that was a different story as well), the children all love her because they can go into her stable and she'll bring her head down so they can put a headcollar on and take her out the stable and she then gets 'dressed up' in various rugs etc, although did put my foot down at them using nail polish on her hooves.
She has a great time, the children on the yard have a great time and I have fun 'shopping', not having to worry if it will fit me or not!!!.
 
Wagtail said:
Yes, very well said. The horse world is SO polarized. So is this forum. With a few exceptions there appear to be two camps:

Hard (very much old school - hunt, PTS by shooting, no field ornaments etc) and
Soft (anyone in this camp are called bunny huggers).
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I'll have to sit in the middle then......

Hunt, PTS (whichever way is appropriate at the time), no treats, manners required....
and have a dearly beloved field ornament relaxing their final yrs after giving everything (and enjoying it strangely enough in coming in for daily brush over & going back out again soon after)

:p
 
horserider said:
There is a big difference between mollycoddling and giving care. The well cared for horse is more likely to be sane, healthy and a pleasure to be around.
The mollycoddled horse is more likely to be the vet's best friend, the feed merchants best friend, the rug makers best friend and the horse behaviourists best friend.

Take two TB horses;
The first is stabled all year round with limited individual turnout. It is rugged, to keep clean in summer and wears layers of rugs in winter to keep warm. It is fed hard feed and an array of supplements, booted for every occasion when not in its box. Washed frequently and fully groomed every day. It never feels the rain on its back or gets to roll in the dirt, or run with a herd.

The second TB, lives out 24/7. Lives on grass with hay in the field in winter. Gets a simple feed if in work. Only clipped if in regular work and then only clipped enough to maintain condition.Rugged only enough to maintain condition, not to feel toasty warm. Otherwise, lives unrugged, living out through snow and rain in an established herd. On rainy days, gets the saddle and girth area dried off and is ridden in all weathers.

Which one as a general rule is more likely to be healthier ?

Which
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I'm not qualified to answer that question . . . and, here's the thing, neither are you. You're applying generalizations and blanket statements to something that is a) none of your business; and b) can't be generalized. Every horse is different. Every owner is different. Who are you to say that xyz horse is more unhappy or unhealthy than it could possibly be until you own it? Yes, of course, horses should feel the sun on their backs - but it isn't up to me (or you) to dictate whether or not they do. You're applying a generalization to something that isn't general . . . and you're imposing your standards (which may or may not be correct) on every other horse owner. What if said TB suffers horribly from sweet itch? Well then it would need to be rugged throughout the summer, right? What if said TB has skin very sensitive to rain scald? What if said TB has a low immune system? What if said TB isn't able to metabolize certain feeds or forage? What if said TB has really rubbish feet and needs a supplement so needs something to carry said supplement? See what I mean?

The mollycoddling thread got on my nerves (to put it mildly) because it presupposed that a particular subset of horsey people (the non-mollycoddlers) know what's best for all horses - and those who do something outside their prescriptive ideas of care are not just wrong but actually abusive. My point is simply that it's just not that cut and dried. Of course there are some basic tenets . . . when and how to feed and water before and after exercise, importance of good hoof care (shod or not), importance of manners , good basic veterinary care (innoculations, etc.) . . . pretty much everything else ought to be up to the owner and should pretty much be governed by the needs of the horses and the way said owners choose to keep their horses. If it's not what you would do - but isn't actual abuse - is it right for you (and this is a general "you" rather than a specific one) to be not just dismissive but downright rude about the way those owners care for their horses?

P
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Care and also mollycoddling can also be put together in the one word 'convenience'.

Its more (possibly) convenient for the working owner to:

Bring their horses in at night in winter so they can see them in some form of light.

Stabled in winter so they dont have to walk though mud/scrape off mud.

Bring them in, in summer out of the flies - making it convenient to have them to hand to ride after work.

Rug on & off all yr round when wet, so they can put a saddle on a dry back.

Rug in winter, so they can do more work than riding a horse with a full winter coat.

But hey - horse for courses ;) :D ('scuse the pun!) each to their own eh?
Everyone manages differently & what is the 'right way' for person A is totally alien to person B.

Am sure there is always someone posting to say 'glad my horse is in', during cold torrential rain mid afternoon in November, whilst others are anxiously looking out of the window thinking 'I wish I'd put that rug on' or possibly 'How long till I finish here at work?'

Debate away :)
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Yup! Your point about convenience is something I neglected to say . . . i.e., that horses are no longer a necessity - so to some extent how we manage them can come down to convenience - both for us and for them without necessarily compromising their well being. I rug Kal when it's raining b/c then he's dry when either I or my trainer go to ride him . . . five days a week . . . but if it's sunny when he goes out then he remains unrugged (in the summer) and he gets wet . . . I don't have the time (b/c I work and don't keep him at home) to put rugs on and take rugs off as the weather changes. Bottom line is, it shouldn't matter a whit to anyone what I do with Kal - as long as it doesn't constitute actual abuse or neglect, it's my business . . . he's my horse and I'll care for him/mollycoddle him as I see fit. Ditto every other horse owner. I might not choose to follow their lead, but it doesn't mean they're wrong and I'm right (or vice versa).

P
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I'll have to sit in the middle then......

Hunt, PTS (whichever way is appropriate at the time), no treats, manners required....
and have a dearly beloved field ornament relaxing their final yrs after giving everything (and enjoying it strangely enough in coming in for daily brush over & going back out again soon after)

:p
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Maybe there are more of us in the middle than appears then. It often just appears that there are two extreme viewpoints on everything we discuss, but there again, those in the middle probably just don't feel strongly enough to argue.
 
To be honest as long as it is not making the horse dangerous or ill mannered or doing it harm in some way i dont think it matters if someone wants to mollycoddle their horse.
My family has always had horses my parents had a riding school, they race horses so have had working horses and while they are no pushovers we have always been used to showing kindness and what some would be seen as mollycoddling i guess.
I would always intervene if i thought a horse was coming to harm or help if asked but however people want to keep their horses is up to them and i find it strange people feel the need to comment on this.

All my horses love a kiss and cuddle well except one who finds it distasteful he is far too:cool: but then again i am probably considered as a fluffy wotsit as my dog sleeps in my bed as well ha ha.

There are enough horses not even receiving basic care so people should be more bothered about those and so what if people want to show some love to their animals, there is nothing worse than animals with all the personality knocked out of them.
Lots of horses we have had from the sales need firm fair handling, but that bit extra of tlc kindness cuddles and dare i say it mollycoddling :eek: turns them in to lovely personalities.
 
Wagtail said:
Maybe there are more of us in the middle than appears then. It often just appears that there are two extreme viewpoints on everything we discuss, but there again, those in the middle probably just don't feel strongly enough to argue.
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Well, consider this the middle wanting its voice heard then. I get a little fed up of the extremists banging their drums and being quite so zealous. There is room for other voices . . . there are other ways. We are all horse owners and/or horse lovers.

P
 
Trinity Fox said:
There are enough horses not even receiving basic care so people should be more bothered about those and so what if people want to show some love to their animals, there is nothing worse than animals with all the personality knocked out of them.
Lots of horses we have had from the sales need firm fair handling, but that bit extra of tlc kindness cuddles and dare i say it mollycoddling :eek: turns them in to lovely personalities.
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Yup.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I'll have to sit in the middle then......

Hunt, PTS (whichever way is appropriate at the time), no treats, manners required....
and have a dearly beloved field ornament relaxing their final yrs after giving everything (and enjoying it strangely enough in coming in for daily brush over & going back out again soon after)

:p
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May I join you on that there fence you're on? Although my field ornament will come up for a scratch and a brush and a cuddle but not if he thinks you might have a headcollar with you.

As for manners, I was horrified talking to the farrier a few months ago to find that many of the horses he visits will not stand quietly to be trimmed and/or shod. He firmly blames mollycoddling and the failure of many owners to either train or insist that their animals stand tied up without being held or constantly fed treats. The conversation came about when I apologised that one of mine had to be held and given treats because she was having her feet done for the first time in her life, having been unhandled until a few weeks before. Apparently this is fairly standard behaviour with many horses.

I am pleased to say that this little mare will now, having experienced being trimmed three times, stand quietly with a rope looped through the tie ring whilst her feet are done. With no treats! As will all my others.
 
horserider said:
There is a big difference between mollycoddling and giving care. The well cared for horse is more likely to be sane, healthy and a pleasure to be around.
The mollycoddled horse is more likely to be the vet's best friend, the feed merchants best friend, the rug makers best friend and the horse behaviourists best friend.

Take two TB horses;
The first is stabled all year round with limited individual turnout. It is rugged, to keep clean in summer and wears layers of rugs in winter to keep warm. It is fed hard feed and an array of supplements, booted for every occasion when not in its box. Washed frequently and fully groomed every day. It never feels the rain on its back or gets to roll in the dirt, or run with a herd.

The second TB, lives out 24/7. Lives on grass with hay in the field in winter. Gets a simple feed if in work. Only clipped if in regular work and then only clipped enough to maintain condition.Rugged only enough to maintain condition, not to feel toasty warm. Otherwise, lives unrugged, living out through snow and rain in an established herd. On rainy days, gets the saddle and girth area dried off and is ridden in all weathers.

Which one as a general rule is more likely to be healthier ?

Which
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Well, if were talking in terms of HEALTH- the first one.
I wouldnt be happy to rug my horse only to maintain condition and not to feel toasty warm...!!! Why shouldnt it feel warm??? :confused:

I love the way you use 'being booted' as an argument for a non healthy horse or somehting that is mollycoddled..

What a load of rubbish horse rider.
 
lubuzz said:
Well, if were talking in terms of HEALTH- the first one.
I wouldnt be happy to rug my horse only to maintain condition and not to feel toasty warm...!!! Why shouldnt it feel warm??? :confused:
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Ah well, you see, that is where horses for courses comes in and why my three (winter) rugged horses normally each have a different weight of rug on. If you kept my big mare "toasty warm" she would be most unhappy. She's naturally a warm girl and hates being too hot. Flynn on the other hand is happiest kept at a heat just before he breaks into a sweat.
 
PolarSkye said:
I'm not qualified to answer that question . . . and, here's the thing, neither are you. You're applying generalizations and blanket statements to something that is a) none of your business; and b) can't be generalized. Every horse is different. Every owner is different. Who are you to say that xyz horse is more unhappy or unhealthy than it could possibly be until you own it?

P
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LOL, bit of a tirade there ?
So you are allowed an opinion and I'm not ? Ok then. Why ask a general as opposed to a specific question then ?
I was speaking generally because I credited people with enough common sense to know that specific horses need specific care.
Sure its not of my business how owners keep their horses, but you asked for debate and thats what you got.
Or were you just looking for an unquestioning endorsement of your opinion ?

For the record, I did not say that any particular horse would be less happy or healthy until I owned it. Nor I do I believe that.

For the record, I am far from polarised in my opinion, so don't read into my words what you want to be there.
 
As long as the horse is being cared for adequately at a minimum and your ''coddling'' isnt affecting its behaviour, who gives a chuff.

My horses get cuddles, its therapy for them and me. if they didnt like it, they would canter off, its not like i hold them-no headcollar-no rope, the reason they stay or even seek it out is because they like it. Why would you keep that from them?

It also pees me off when people slag off horse owners that teach their horses things like sitting down or standing on a bucket...what harm is it doing. I was leading pink under trees the other day and after a couple of minutes she was ducking because i was crouching rather than because there were overhanging branches, it was fun and it proved she listens to me. Its not doing any harm and its creating a bond. You read about problem horses on this forum, and how they wont do this or they do that...well can you blame them? meh.

As long as my hosses are happy and still cantering to the gate every day just to see me then im happy.
 
Each to their own.

Although I don't like to see the way a horse is cared for being more driven by the owners convenience than by the horse's needs. There is a balance (i.e. when a rug to keep them dry for riding won't also lead to them being too hot if the sun comes out in May or when time stabled so they're "at hand" for riding isn't at the expense of quality turnout time with other horses).

I don't like to see people being walked all over by their horse and ending up no longer enjoying them because they let them get away with too much so the horse takes advantage. Or a horse sweating away under 3 heavyweight rugs and the owner then feeding more hard feed and adding more rugs because the horse is losing weight..... Or people who like their horses to feel "toasty" ("toasty" in my experience is too warm).

I also don't like to see the die-hard "old school" types who refer to horses as "it" and see them only as competition machines or accessories who are to be sold on or PTS when they're no longer able to do everything the owner wants of them.
 
horserider said:
LOL, bit of a tirade there ?
So you are allowed an opinion and I'm not ? Ok then. Why ask a general as opposed to a specific question then ?
I was speaking generally because I credited people with enough common sense to know that specific horses need specific care.
Sure its not of my business how owners keep their horses, but you asked for debate and thats what you got.
Or were you just looking for an unquestioning endorsement of your opinion ?

For the record, I did not say that any particular horse would be less happy or healthy until I owned it. Nor I do I believe that.

For the record, I am far from polarised in my opinion, so don't read into my words what you want to be there.
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I didn't say you weren't allowed an opinion - I just said that neither your nor I were qualified to decide how other people should or should not keep their horses. Did I say, for example, rugging was good and not rugging was bad - as a general rule? No. What I believe I have been trying to say is that too many people on this forum seem to believe that their way (either way) is the ONLY way - and I find it distasteful. I didn't say that any particular horse would or wouldn't be happy with you caring for it either - nor did I say you were polarised . . . you asked a direct question - which horse you described (and you chose two pretty extreme examples, frankly, and I took that to be a point you were making) was likely to be healthier - and I answered that I didn't think either one of us was in a position to answer the question - based on the fact that neither one of us owns these hypothetical horses, and neither, frankly it is none of our business. Nor did I eplicitly say that a horse wouldn't be happy UNTIL you owned it, I said (badly apparently) that you (again, a general you) aren't qualified to comment on the appropriate care of a horse UNLESS (I used the wrong word - my bad) you own it.

Tirade? Possibly - not directed at you personally - but certainly railing against all the reverse snobbery I see here - and, yes, I'm fully aware that I can leave. Debate? Absolutely! Bring it on. I can hold my own.

P
 
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Well I am sorry that you are fuming. I expressed my oppinnion and that is all. Not once in my thread did I say it was wrong to rug a horse, jesus I have TB's and if they weren't rugged in the winter they would bloody well die!! I was trying to make the point that horses are extremley spoilt here and treated not as horses. I also didn't say that horses shouldn't be shown affection. I love each and every one of mine but I DO NOT let them take advantage this is where the difference is. There is a fine line between loving a horse and letting one take the mick out of you. I put boots on the horses which need them when ridden ( but also boots can do more harm than good if used incorrectly) I get up at 5am to feed, my yard is spotless but at the end of the day I let them be horses. They get turned out together and I don't give a damn if they get dirty, they are supposed to roll and have fun outside. Not be wrapped from head to toe in lycra to keep them clean! It is this obscene over spoiling of horses and the amount of people whinging about their horse doing this or that when in whole honesty it is the humans fault for letting their horse get away with it in the first place. I am not saying in any way that a horse shouldn't be cared for. There is a huge differnce between a well cared for horse and a mollycoddled one. Maybe your so fuming because I touched a nerve!
 
I think, care is providing what the horse NEEDS, mollycoddling is providing things that it doesn't? Obviously times have changed, we don't live in the dark ages anymore, and things have been developed to help our horses to get what they need from life.

Compared to a lot of people, I consider myself fairly old fashioned, whatever that term means. I'm not into this parelli lark, just doesn't do it for me, and my horses, for want of a better word, are left to fend for themselves when they are out in the field, and I don't rug them up to the nines or have kittens when one gets a scratch on it and I don't give them tit bits for no reason (if that is what is meant by mollcoddling...).

I have two horses that NEED to be rugged in the winter, one because he is getting older, and although big, his breeding means he feels the cold, and the other one is arabxtb and doesn't grow a thick coat, so again has a rug (they were out last year in the snow with a medium weight, and if the one shivered I stuck a fleece on her) However, they were stabled at night, now this to a degree you'd call mollycoddling yes? The didn't NEED to be, but they enjoy coming in and line up at the gate forming an orderly que, so when I open it they all go into their stables. I'm not going to deprive them of something they seem to enjoy and that has almost no effect on their life whatsoever, just because they don't need it.

I agree that horses are not just 'to do a job' but they are for a purpose, to provide us with pleasure, yes? They do have emotions, and they do like to interact, be it with horse or human, and there is no reason for us not to reciprocate and have a relationship with them, that can be a cuddle, a pat, a stroke whatever you like.

I think the problem begins when, as others have said, it affects a horses behaviour, and the horse becomes the 'boss' and boundaries are lost in said relationship. You can see the affect of over mollycoddling in a previous post resulting in me ending up in a ditch, horse it totally ruined, from being a horse a novice could ride, to now being a horse who, to be honest, no one can ride.

Interesting post btw, a good one for people to be able to express their personal opinion without getting shunned! :)
 
I look after my horses to a standard I feel is correct and acceptable. I muck out and remove all the wet and droppings and sweep the floor. They have ad lib hay over night, they always have fresh water.
If it is hot and dry they wear fly sheets- I don't want them bitten or sun bleached. If it is wet or cold, they are rugged accordingly.
At night they wear magnetic boots.
They are groomed properly every night with eyes, noes, dock washed, hooves picked and oiled.
They are trimmed every week.
They are shod every 4 - 6 weeks
They where the best tack I can afford and are always turned out and ridden in boots inc over reach boots
They are fed the best quailty hay and feed
If they need supplements they get them.
They have a massage pad every time they are worked and they have a mctimoney session every month and a physio every 6 weeks
They have the dentist regularly
So yep- prob mollycoddled.

However....
They are very well mannered.
They do not bite, kick, barge.
They stand quietly when being groomed and tacked up
They are good to bath, clip, shoe, load themselves.
They are good to catch
They are mannered to ride, hack out alone and in company and canter quietly out in the open

so do I care what others think- nope!
 
It made me laugh so much when they were complaining about people who cuddle their horses. What's wrong with giving them a cuddle? If that counts as mollycoddling then I'm a definite mollycoddler. So many horses enjoy a cuddle as do many owners. It doesn't encourage bad manners and isn't a welfare problem so why do people find it so offensive?
There is also nothing wrong with horses being "toasty". My older horse gets quite depressed if he isn't toasty in winter so that is how I keep him. (He also stays out 24/7 so I prefer him to be warm to help him keep weight.)
 
What makes me laugh is the way people on a internet forum can judge others without even seeing the horses that they think are so badly looked after.
I think there are bigger welfare issues to concern yourself with than 'cruelty by cuddling!'
 
Little Squirrel said:
Well I am sorry that you are fuming. I expressed my oppinnion and that is all. Not once in my thread did I say it was wrong to rug a horse, jesus I have TB's and if they weren't rugged in the winter they would bloody well die!! I was trying to make the point that horses are extremley spoilt here and treated not as horses. I also didn't say that horses shouldn't be shown affection. I love each and every one of mine but I DO NOT let them take advantage this is where the difference is. There is a fine line between loving a horse and letting one take the mick out of you. I put boots on the horses which need them when ridden ( but also boots can do more harm than good if used incorrectly) I get up at 5am to feed, my yard is spotless but at the end of the day I let them be horses. They get turned out together and I don't give a damn if they get dirty, they are supposed to roll and have fun outside. Not be wrapped from head to toe in lycra to keep them clean! It is this obscene over spoiling of horses and the amount of people whinging about their horse doing this or that when in whole honesty it is the humans fault for letting their horse get away with it in the first place. I am not saying in any way that a horse shouldn't be cared for. There is a huge differnce between a well cared for horse and a mollycoddled one. Maybe your so fuming because I touched a nerve!
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LittleSquirrel - I wasn't pointing a finger at any one person in particular - I was (and still am) baffled and annoyed at the overall tone of the discussion/posts in the "mollycoddling" thread along the lines of "ALL people who mollycoddle are idiots and/or creating monsters." My point was (and still is) simply that some of the statements made on that thread were far too general and (IMHO) judgmental of people who don't care for their horses in a particular pre-defined way. I'm not advocating one way or another - I'm trying (unsuccessfully it seems) to point out that the discussion in that particular thread became pretty polarized - and that isn't the reality many people live with.

I don't disagree that there are some horses (and owners for that matter) who could do with being taught better manners and/or make decisions regarding the care and control of their horses, but it's none of my business. It isn't my place to judge. Just as it isn't anyone else's place to judge how often Kal (or any other horse for that matter) does or doesn't get a bath/is grooomed and how often, is or isn't shod, is fed what feed and how often, is turned out alone or in company, is rugged or not, is booted up or not, is bandaged at night or not . . . it's up to me. Likewise, it's not for me to tell anyone else what food THEY should eat, how they should feed their children/families, what thickeness/weight coats their children should wear, what time they or their children should go to bed, where they should sleep, etc. There are people in the horse world (and on this board) who wouldn't dream of pontificating on people's private lives (i.e., how they should raise, feed, clothe and educate their children, for instance), but won't think twice about being pretty prescriptive (either up front or behind someone's back) about how they should be caring for their horse - and I think that's wrong.

No - you personally didn't touch a nerve, but the overall tone of the thread sure did - I resent the general sentiment that anyone who rugs, feeds supplements, is demonstrably affectionate towards their horse and gives treats is somehow a soft touch with an out of control horse - what a ludicrous idea. It's as outrageous as saying that horses that go unrugged and unclipped all winter, are only fed straights, never fussed or cuddled and are kept barefoot will always be beautifully behaved. It's just illogical.

If it doesn't constitute outright abuse, then why does it matter to you (or anyone else)? And if horse welfare is an important issue and you (a general you - not a personal you) feel there are too many uninformed people (because they probably are uninformed rather than just idiots) then why not help people and volunteer for a horse welfare charity.

Just sayin'

P
 
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Firstly, I do think some of you have odd definitions of molycoddling - seeing a dentist regularly, getting supplements if necessary, being fed or rugged as necessary etc. are basic care. Surely all the folk on the extreme hardline side are not suggesting, for example, an elderly, poorly conditioned, clipped out TB be turned out in all weathers un-rugged or unfed?

I don't agree with the OP, because I think by definition that molycoddling covers the extreme and unnecessary things that owners do for their horses. And, while I do think people have a right to treat their animals as they see fit, within reason, I'm not comfortable with extremes e.g. horses being kept in 24/7 for their owner's convenience. In debates about how much forage horses should have, the common answer is ad lib to prevent ulcers. If you look at the research supporting that, one of the key factors in ulcer development is stabling (vs turnout, alongside the importance of forage). Yet it seems acceptable on here to stable a horse 24/7, but not restrict forage... I'm not advocating or condemning either, my point is about double standards, or heaven forbid, ignorance, and this is where molycoddling, for me, is dangerous - where the owner acts out of misguiding compassion for the horse, potentially at the detriment of his welfare.

I'm not comfortable with things that, in my head, go hand in hand with molycoddling, like allowing your horse to get fat because you "feel mean" restricting forage or muzzling... But then, most of the people on here advocating molycoddling would agree with me there, so I do think it's all about strict definitions!

I also see red when people (usually molycoddlers) refer to themselves as their horse's "mummy". But since that does no harm in itself, I accept that as my personal, irrational problem :p
 
'Molly-Coddlers' are people who allow their horses to become so fat they can hardly move because of excessive over-feeding and lack of decent exercise.

They are also people who allow their horses to become bad-tempered brutes due to allowing bad manners to develop, through allsorts of things, including too many treats.

Over-rugging is also the trade-mark of a 'Molly-Coddler'.


'Molly-Coddlers' also like to infere that those who do not follow their way of thinking...are cruel.

I am fed-up of the amount of people who believe it their god-given RIGHT to question WHY I do not rug my horses.

They are rugged when needed, not when a drop or rain comes our way......they get rugged when the temperature REALLY dips, we are talking the temperatures we had this last winter....I had -8 to -15 for quite a few days, and yes, a rug went on. The minute I CAN...the rugs come off.

Just because I call people 'Molly-Coddlers', it does not mean I am evil to my horses, and do not show affection.

My actions are dictated by the need of the horse. This year, they will be fed on a diet of mostly hay, with some chaff to add vitamins each day which helps keep them healthy, and that's it.

'You should feed this...'...people say...er...no? Horses are doing more than fine with what they get. And actually, it makes like so much cheaper to keep it simple!

I would say, don't get hung-up on the label, means nothing at the end of the day, as long as you are doing right by your horse, it's fine...BUT if you ARE being a bit too 'over-protective'...then accept health problems may occur somewhere down the line.
 
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