When is a win or place, not actually so?

[Sportznight]

Odd question I know, but triggered by a few posts on here atm. If there are only a handful in the class and you win or place in it, is there still the same feeling of satisfaction, as when there are loads entered? Esp. if there are 'names' competing. It's so long since I've ridden competitively, having mainly been breeding for about the past decade, posts have got me wondering. I guess the higher up the ladder you get, then potentially the fewer there will be in the classes and I suppose some venues are known to be busier than others

 

[PapaFrita]

Well, I suppose you can always compete against yourself; aim for a better score than before, a better SJing round than before. There will be variables such as the level of difficulty, BUT technically, you can't WIN if there's no one else in the class, can you? And if you're 3rd of 3, or 4th of 4, then surely you're last and not actually placed? Personally I find it much more satisfying to do well against lots of other people than to jump clear, or clear and fast on my own. I can do that at home.

 

[Lolo]

I think it varies on discipline- with dressage there is a set standard, so an 8 is always worth an 8 (supposedly- and within variations between judges, you can assume some consistency). SJ, not so because a course is rarely the same, the jump off can favour different horses, etc. That's why I'm not sure how to answer for eventing- it's dependent on both...

 

[coreteam1]

I think with dressage (to me anyway) it's about the score rather than the placing. However I do always 'feel' much better if there were loads in the class.

It's not often where I go, that there aren't many in the classes although sometimes midweek it can be quieter.

If I were doing showing/working hunter I would want at least ten in the class though

 

[Thistle]

I think the scores also differ somewhat dressage (whether eventing or 'pure dressage' ) I have generally found aff scores to be about 5% tougher than unaff equivalents. EG Floss will generally score low to mid 30's aff dressage but will often be high 20's unaff.

Although we are new to BD, have been doing BE for quite a few years and also I suppose I can think back to my youth as well, but it was all different then, dressage and eventing started at Novice. Uni teams (I competed for GB) started at Novice dressage and 3'6" SJ on unknown horses.

I suppose it is about bettering ones own scores but also it's about the competition if you want to progress in local and National competition.

These days all the results are available online so it's very easy to keep tabs on your progress. You don't have to worry about losing test sheets etc. I'm generally happy if the score is in the top third, although these days with the awkward hormonal(horse not rider) one a completed round is always a good thing!!!

 

[trottingon]

I do showing, and really hate it if I am the only one in a class, or there are only a few of us, as winning or being placed just doesn't have the same satisfaction, and I tend to wonder why I bothered spending hours getting my horse clean and ready when I could have spent half the time on him and still won (although personal pride in my turnout would never actually allow me to do that - good golly I won't even hack out if he has so much as a stable stain on his leg until I've cleaned it off!!!). However I also get pee'd off with all the standing around in a big class!
What I have found over the last few years is that riding club shows in my area are getting less and less entries, whereas the bigger shows and county shows I go to seem to consistently have large numbers of entries.
I show for fun, and I'm not bothered if it happens to be a trophy show or a qualifier. Whatever level it is - if we win, then that's fantastic and I am made up. It is primarily a day out with my boy that I enjoy and I tend to enter shows at my favourite showgrounds as much as anything else, but a lot of people seem to go wherever there is any sort of qualifier classes.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I hate showing with small entries - there is far less satisfaction of doing well.

A few years ago my Sec C mare won her WPCS Bronze Medal. She was the only one in her class and there was only 8 in the entire section - where is the fun in that?!? I had much more pleasure getting 2nd at the Highland in a class of 15 mares, geldings and stallions with producers left right and centre in that class.

 

[TGM]

I think a first placing out of one is not a real triumph. Likewise being second out of two, third out of three, etc., is nothing to write home about! However, a win in a small class is still an achievement if the other entries were high class and you delivered an excellent performance. So if there were four in a showjumping class, but the course was tricky and you jumped two excellent double clears then you can be proud of being placed first of four. However, if the course was easy, and you had several fences down and you only won because the others were even worse than you, then it is not so much of an achievement! (Although sometimes if might be a personal achievement if it is your first time back competing after injury or confidence crisis for example.)

I always think it is wisest to be honest about how many are in the class, and confess if you were first out of one, for example, because with so many results being online now it is easy for people to check and you can look like a prize wally if you crow about your win and people find out that you were the only one in the class!

 

[Sportznight]

Ahhh yes, showing and class size! I'd have been most annoyed if the County show I took my coloured 2yo too last year had had a small entry... She was second in a strong sportshorse class We're going again this summer I only show for the experience for the youngster, so a place is a wonderful bonus (and actually quite emotional, silly sod that I am )

 

[Thistle]

This is why I always check section sizes when looking at a horses results. 2nd in a class of 2 could be seen as 2nd or last depending on how you look at it.

 

[Saratoga]

Agree with Thistle, a win when there's only one in it isn't really a win in my book. BUT if I were competing in a small class, the percentage is far more important, especially affiliated as it's tougher to get a really decent score than unaffiliated. 70% affiliated is still bloody good no matter how many in it, and I would be very happy with the percentage and see that as the achievement rather than the placing.

 

[Honey08]

Its different with dressage, as there are scores, and the same goes for BE. Sometimes you can finish on one score and come in the top ten, and the same score lands you 25th the following week, so I go off how I felt it went personally (although loved it the few times I've been placed BE!).

Showing, yes its annoying to be in a small class after all that work. Last year I won a ridden hunter class with my youngster, but was still over the moon because he worked like a star, and I know that he probably would have still won if there had been a lot more entries.

I think a lot of it depends on what type of person you are. Some people would tell you that they won, but there were only three in the class - others would just say that they'd won! I also think other people win at prelim dressage, or BE 90 on amazing scores, beating everyone regularly, but actually they should really be competing at a more difficult level, so in my opinion, just because it was a big class and they won, it doesn't mean they've had to try very hard either...

 

[Alibear]

Also depends if it's a class you have to qualify for , so you win a class to qulify then at the championships you come 4th out of 4 I think you can still be pretty proud about especially if the judge says something nice about your horse.

 

[marmalade76]

It's a lot easier to win a rosette than it used to be!

 

[Thistle]

It's a lot easier to win a rosette than it used to be!

Totally agree, in my youth it used to be 123 and if you were really lucky 4. Now rosettes to 6th seem to be standard in most things.
BE with sections of 40 give rosettes to 10th, that's only 25%.

 

[meardsall_millie]

Just to add in - am I the only one who can win/be highly placed yet still be disappointex because I don't feel we've performed as well as we could. Yet on the other hand be completely thrilled to finish well down the order but knowing we've actually performed well for the current level of training/experience?!

 

[marmalade76]

Totally agree, in my youth it used to be 123 and if you were really lucky 4. Now rosettes to 6th seem to be standard in most things.
BE with sections of 40 give rosettes to 10th, that's only 25%.

Not only that, there are far fewer people competing these days. I used to do unaff SJ classes with 70+ entries (and win them ), these days they struggle to get enough entries to fill the places.

 

[Thistle]

Just to add in - am I the only one who can win/be highly placed yet still be disappointex because I don't feel we've performed as well as we could. Yet on the other hand be completely thrilled to finish well down the order but knowing we've actually performed well for the current level of training/experience?!

No you are not the only one, some of our best days have involved cricket score when eventing, but a great sense of satisfaction that a problem has been resolved.

 

[Thistle]

Not only that, there are far fewer people competing these days. I used to do unaff SJ classes with 70+ entries (and win them ), these days they struggle to get enough entries to fill the places.

But M76, is it that there are far more shows and show centres now, so it's all spread so much thinner. In my dim and distant youth most comps were a 'once a year' affair held in a field!

 

[only_me]

Put it this way - if get placed, it's usually due to the misfortune of others, not my ability!

 

[marmalade76]

But M76, is it that there are far more shows and show centres now, so it's all spread so much thinner. In my dim and distant youth most comps were a 'once a year' affair held in a field!

Most of the annual shows have diappeared round here now so most of the comps are at show centres. I found when I was doing lots that there would be far more entries at the show centres than at annual shows. Last time I went I competed at a show centre I did two unaff SJ classes which had 6 in one class and eight in the other. The few annual shows we have left seem to have a few more entries, but not as many as they used to.

I think one of the reasons we have lost so many annual shows is because they cannot earn enough in entries to cover their cost, another reason is a lack of volunteers.

 

[KatB]

Just to add in - am I the only one who can win/be highly placed yet still be disappointex because I don't feel we've performed as well as we could. Yet on the other hand be completely thrilled to finish well down the order but knowing we've actually performed well for the current level of training/experience?!

Nope, not at all!

If my horse has gone well, and not been placed, then it's normally because they've gone well for that stage of training, which may be slightly behind the standard required to win that class. I was thrilled with a win a few weeks back, as it was the first time I had really "tried" against the clock, and it was lovely to know that our good performance was good enough to be competitive

Having only a couple in the class and doing well is great, but can make people think they are better than maybe they really are... it's all comparitive!

 

[Gamebird]

Just to add in - am I the only one who can win/be highly placed yet still be disappointex because I don't feel we've performed as well as we could. Yet on the other hand be completely thrilled to finish well down the order but knowing we've actually performed well for the current level of training/experience?!

*Gamebird hands M_M membership forms for the 'fab day but rubbish on paper' clique*

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

somewhat dependant on what you set out to achieve..............i obv mainly do dressage and can still feel satisfied if i *win* a class of 1, if i got a good score/did a better test than last time/improved on my weak areas.

if i *won* on 40% not i wouldnt feel id achieved anything.

if you *won* a SJ on a good fluent double clear im sure you'd feel more than if you won with 28 faults, as the only person in the class.

 

[Weezy]

I SJ, so as long as the horse goes in, jumps clear, responds to me, etc. then I am happy as larry, regardless of whether I get a ribbon or not - however, I would deffo tell that it was a small class...which to me means less people than prizes...so if they are giving ribbons to 6th but there are only 4 in it then it is a small class, but if there were 7, so someone went home without a ribbon, then it is a fair do...does that make sense?!

Dressage is obv more subjective. I would certainly say how many were in a class as it makes it even more of an achievement to be placed, and rated, amongst ones peers.

ATEOTD tho the horse has no idea how others are doing, so as long as he has gone well then I would rather brag about that than a ribbon any day of the week!

 

[HappyHorses:)]

put it this way - if get placed, it's usually due to the misfortune of others, not my ability!

lol! :d

 

[Hen]

I compete in reining which has a rigorous points system so it makes no difference to me whether there's one or twenty in my class - it's all about the final score and the individual manoeuvre scores for me. I have won classes with scores that I'm not proud of and placed around 5th or 6th with runs which I have been pleased with, usually because I've had an improvement with one particular manoeuvre or even an improved transition between manoeuvres.

 

[Rouletterose]

I have never competed to do better than the others in the class, it's always been to improve my horses and do better than I did last time, with a better percentage than last time. Although that can usually depend on the personal preferences of the judge on the day to a certain extent. I'm also always wanting to take in what that judge thinks of our way of going (if they are a good one) it's not always what you think yourself, if I get a placing with a high percentage then I'm always pleased and the bigger the class the better.

There's not much pleasure in coming 1st or 2nd in a class of 3. UNLESS you have got over 70%.

 

[nikkimariet]

I always feel like I've won if I've improved since my last outing

 

[PucciNPoni]

Just to add in - am I the only one who can win/be highly placed yet still be disappointex because I don't feel we've performed as well as we could. Yet on the other hand be completely thrilled to finish well down the order but knowing we've actually performed well for the current level of training/experience?!

Me too! I did a couple of RC dressage tests at the weekend. I came out of hte arena from the first test and thought "eh, that wasn't great" and yet we came 2nd out of a class of 20+ with a score of 75% (a personal best for me). I was over the moon that we'd beat a 69% score....and tHe comments were accurate enough, but I know we could have actually performed better.

The week before, I went to a local showing show. Had the BEST EVER ride on my horse, loved every floating second of it - and we came fourth. But I was grinning cos I had such a lovely time on him.