When is enough, enough? *LONG*

Boodle

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I'm looking for a totally unbiased and detached opinion from you all here, as i'm truly unable to decide what to do for the best.

I've owner my 14.1hh welsh d x nf 15yr old mare for 3 and a half years now.

2003 consisted of us getting to know each other, we had problems I admit. She was strong, bolshy, bargy, dragged me whilst being lead and ridden, bolted, broncoed... you name it she pribably did it. Jumped out of show rings, out of jumping paddocks, ran away at shows, refused to be caught....

In 2004, January she was diagnosed with laminitis, it was decided this was caused by the sudden frost we had experienced which released fructins in the grass etc etc.
In february it was considered to put her down. We decided to give her a week to pick up and if no improvement... we'd say goodbye. However she did pick up, and by July 2004 I was able to take her out for inhand walks and she was improving greatly. By the end of 2004 she was hacking out and even trotting.

2005, was a fitness year. Trying to get her back to her previous level of fitness, with lots of reschooling etc. And by this point we trusted each other after months of her lying in the stable and me spending hours on end just talking to her and grooming her and willing her to get better.

2005 was a very good year for us.

In 2006 she went lame in April, only ever so slightly. but the vet was called in case of another bout of laminitis. Despite lack of heat in her foot, no digital pulse etc, we brought her in and padded up her feet as a precaution.
She appeared to get better but gradually she became more and more lame.
After many misdiagnosis', many tests, scans, nerve blocks, she was diagnosed with acute arthritis.
Once this was discovered she could improve as it was obvious box rest was just making her more stiff.

Despite some on/off lameness she seemed ok most of the time and by July we were back to normal. In early October she suffered a puncture wound to the inside of her off hind. After some box rest, many antibiotics and alot of tears she did make a recovery.

Throughout Autumn/winter 06 she was lame alot of the time, and had more diagnosis' of Arthritis in her other hind, in fetlocks and in her knee.

In mid November I found her in the field, down. She was flat out and in alot of pain. The vet came out and we were considering letting her pass on there and then... but after alot of discussion we said we'd give her till the next day to pick up. And the next day she had picked up.
It was at first suspected she'd fractured/shattered her pedal bone, but upon more investigation it was suspected she'd either had something puncture her foot and she had a foreign body in there, or it was a severe infection.
She's had alot of remedial farrier, more vet visits than I care to remember and an incredible amount of patience.

Yesterday she deteriorated again after 2 months of box rest, and 3 different vets cannot find the cause of this latest problem, although it is suspected she may have something along the lines of a deep seated abcess... how we don;t know.

My question, after a lot of rambling is; when is enough, enough?

Have I put her through enough?

The outlook for her is ALOT more box rest, as she has had areas of her foot cut away, so that needs to heal.
I don't care that i'll probably never ride her again, all I want for her is a quality of life to the extent of being allowed to be turned out. Because this is all it takes to make her happy.

If there was no hope of her ever going out again I would not be trying to keep her going.

She still has SO much life in her yet, and she is still as happy and content as she always was despite the box rest. I spend hours on end with her, and as she is just in my garage she has visitors throughout the day who all bring her cuddles and kind words.

Do I fight again for my absolutely beloved Laminitic, Arthritic, rising 16yr old Welshy cross, or do I call it a day and say goodbye to the best friend I ever had?

As I simply do not know what to do anymore.

The vet says he's willing to fight for her as she;s still happy and she hasn;t given up. However he also says if I feel that this is enough, he doesen't think that letting her slip away would be a wrng decision.

Really he says its up to me. And so does the farrier.

I just don't know what to do anymore. And I don;t want to give up on her, but I think I may be being selfish on this.

Sorry for the monster post.
 

Lucy_Ally

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Firstly huge hugs for you, I have been in a similar situation and know how you must be feeling.
My old mare was diagnosed with arthritis and she had good days and bad, it sounds like a cliche but they let you know when they have had enough. If she is in a lot of pain and you feel that it will be a long road then no one will think any less of you for having her pts. However if she is bright and happy and you feel able to carry on with the care she needs then give her some time. Its a very personal decision and you know her best, good luck - its an awful position to be in.
 

madhector

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is a horrible situation to be in and you have my sympathies, i have been though a similar thing with my tb, and each time he pulls though, but each time we start thinking that it might be kindest to end it for him, at the moment he is fine, and hopefully will stay that way. it is awful to have to make that disicion, and even worse when only you can decide, somewho is easier when there is no choice, i will keep struggling on with mine, because i think he still has a great quality of life, but he too hates box rest and needs to be out in the field to be happy, so if something happened to stop that then i might then consider having him pts, lots of hugs as think you have very difficult desision to make, all the best xx
 

Boodle

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Thanks Lucy_spring.

I know my parents and school teachers have both been worried about me as I admit i'm not performing as well as I used to at school... but I just can;t concentrate on it at the moment.

I just don't know if I could handle losing her. But then I have a battle with myself to try and discover who im holding onto her for... my sake or hers.

I've never sold a horse in my life and generally when they come to us, they come to us for good... i have 2 oldies and one young rescue... but it's ironic the one "fully fit" pony is the one that suffers the most problems.

frown.gif

Thanks again
 

Boodle

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Thanks mad_hector.

Hearing about your personal experience is really helpful.
How old is your tb?

I hope he continues to be ok.
 

siennamum

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How horrible for you, you've been through a lot for her, she couldnt have had a better owner. Whatever you decide, it will lbe for the best reasons.
 

Happy Horse

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One of the vets I used to work with used to say to the clients "what is the horse telling you?" If they are content and bright, eating well and happy then as long as you can afford it and there is hope then for sure, keep going. Once the horse gives up then it is time to call it a day. This happened with my horse, he was never sick or sorry in his life but when he became ill, the spark in his eye started to go and he got very lethargic. I called it a day while he still had a good quality of life but before he totally gave up - I hope this makes sense.
 

jojoebony

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I'm very sorry.
I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago with a mare that was intermittently lame (2 years). My friends suggested I was letting her go too soon, but I know I made the right decision.
For me, it was looking her eyes and seeing the spark gone. I just knew! And I'm sure you will when the time is right.
Just be sure that you are comfortable with whichever decision you make.
Jo
 

tanflislibs

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i feel that if she had wanted to go, she has had opportunities and never given up. i feel that (sounding strange) she should be left to make the descision herself. see what the outcome is. she has had many opportunities when she was so close to being gone that there must be something she feels worth living for. maybe, justy your company is enough for her to keep going for
smile.gif


i feel so symapthetic and cant imagine the emotions you must be feeling.
 

Boodle

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Thanks so much everyone.

I cant thank my vet enough really, he's never given up on her... he's trying so hard to help her.

Back in 2004 with the laminitis... I began to see that look in her eye.. the glazed, depressed, giving up look... and Im glad we gave her a chance then...

I just dont want her to suffer. Sometimes going out to say goodnight to her and seeing her lying there, it just breaks my heart because thats not what a pony should be doing...
Yesterday i was talking about the best way for her to go...
Today I just feel like we cant be defeated that easy.

Bit of an emotional rollercoaster.
 

Blizzard

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I really feel for you, Ive never been in your situation but i can only imagine how hard it is.

First of all well done for doing all you have for your pony, I agree with the others in that if you feel she isnt ready to go, and you can afford and can handle the upset of keeping her going and possibly more ups and downs, then keep her going.
When you feel she isnt enjoying life anymore, you will know its time to say goodbye.
 

charlie76

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I have also been through similar- my horse was lame on and off for a couple of years. Was diagnoised with navicular and over 3 or 4 yrs I spent as much time, effort and money trying to get him right.
Last September I gave him a year of field rest with no shoes as a last resort but he was very lame in Oct 06 so I decided to call it a day.
I suppose I could have had him denerved or upped the bute to 3 per day but thought long and hard as to who I was going to be doing it for- him or me?

It was very difficult but I had him PTS as I felt he'd been through enough pain.

Its so difficult.
 

WelshRareBit

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I had a similar thing with my dog, and while I know its a different animal, its the same emotions.

My dog was very ill, he stopped noticing me stopped looking at me, he couldnt walk, or eat or go to the loo.... I think you have to look at your horses quality of life. If she can pootle about enjoying being a horse (all be it a slow old one) then I see no reason at all to have her PTS. BUT, if she is living a half life - if she is just exsisting, then maybe it is kinder to let her go.

The day I had my dog PTS I was besides myself. But then when he had his last breath I knew it was the right thing to do, it was the first full unlaboured breath he'd taken in weeks. I am still getting over it, but when I think of how bad he was it tortures me - then I think of him cuddled in my arms at the vet after he'd passed - that doesnt torture me, it comforts me that Id done the best I could do and put him before myself, put his welfare before my feelings. Now I look back with so much joy, and sadness...

I hope my little story helps, I cant say one way or the other for your lovely horse, you have to decide and whatever you do she'll still love you - no matter what.

hugs

Jen xxx
 

halo320

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life is so harsh and i sympathise with u. i had my yearling put to sleep last year. ive already discused this in a previous post but after repeated illnesses due to a breakdown in his immunity he had an infection from being gelded and a possible and likely puncture in his coffin joint. several times i thought of ending his suffering, but he was the most arrogant and self loving horse id ever met that he wouldnt accept defeat. i suffered alot, depression. i bought him for a small sum but he ended up costing me about £3000 in vets bills over 1 1/2 yrs. i was severely in debt and that paid a small part in my desision.
but for a whole year and a half i did everything i could for this pony.i sat down and realised i had been so blind. id been very selfish as i knew no matter what, he'd never have any quality of life. hed injure himself again, be stuck inside, banging his head off the walls in frustration. i foned the vet there and then, it was the hardest thing ive done in my life and right now my eyes have just welled up in tears.
i spent every day with that pony, sometimes four times a day and i couldnt help feeling like id let him down but im so pleased to have let him go before he really had to. unfortunately he didnt go without a fight (he had a terrible fear of needles) but as awful as it sounds, that was him down to a T. he went being himself, not lying there unable to do anything.
ofcourse its your decision, but u know u have to think of your horses future, she could live to be thirty but during these extra years could she still be content? you know ull make the right desision because u know ur horse. i made the right desicion on mine, although it may seem harsh to u.
but if you do decide to have her put to sleep, let her go with dignity and remember u wont forget the fond memories u have of her.
 

harvgj19

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Kirsty, I am really feeling for you here.

My first tb was diagnosed with arthritis after I had had him on loan for a year. He was only 17. It started with a little stumbling when ridden and continued into slight constant lameness. Although he could have been kept pain free enough to go out in the field and graze for another couple of years, after 2 weeks in the field doing nothing he was more depressed than before. His owner and I made the very hard decision that he should be pts as he was in pain and unhappy. You could tell that just by looking at him.

So what I am trying to say is, if Boo is still bright and enjoying the attention, and you can be strong for her, then continue to fight. If she loses that will to go on, you will be the first to see it, and you won't be able to deny it to yourself.

Big hugs to both of you, and my thoughts are with you whilst you struggle with this awful decision.
 

Maesfen

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It's a horrid situation and you are doing the right thing to question your motives - is it for her or yourself that you are delaying?

However, if you should carry on, what is the best thing that can happen in the future? If she can be turned out afterwards, what are the chances she'll get Laminitis again putting her back to square one or worse; how many times are you going to ask her to be strong? If she can't be turned out to be a horse, what kind of life is that for her, would she be happy in a stable 24/7 season in, season out? These are some of the things you must ask yourself I think.

I'm very sorry, I know it's hard but I wouldn't hesitate to call it a day, I think she's already been through enough even though you have done so much for her already, but that is only my opinion for what it was worth.
 

Tia

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Oh jeez what a dreadful time you have both had. I know exactly where your emotions are at, and I know it is sooo hard to make that decision.

My pony also had laminitis and we were advised to have her put to sleep. Wow did that turn our life upside down. We were in Canada when it happened and we caught a flight back to England knowing that we would only see our beloved pony one more time as the vet had been booked to come to put her to sleep a couple of hours after we would arrive home. I went to see our pony alone firstly and when I looked at her, I looked into her dark eyes and just knew that it was time........but then I brought my little daughter (Cloud is her pony) to say goodbye to her....I couldn't believe it - the spark in her eyes returned! So then I knew I was wrong and we decided to fight for her. The long and the short of it is that she made a full recovery and 2 years on she is still with us after flying her over to live with us in Canada. Now this may sound hopeful to you, however Cloud's diagnosis was not grass-induced laminitis, just a reaction to the groom feeding her tonnes of sweet coarse-mix which she shouldn't have had.

I think you need to sit with your pony - look into her eyes and try to understand if she is telling you something. Look for that spark and if it isn't there then I think you have to make the right decision for her. You will know if there is anymore fight in her. You have to question her long-term health and how she will manage for the many years in front of her.

Sadly none of us can make the decision for you. What an awful position you are in and I deeply feel for you and Boo.
frown.gif
 

Joya

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Oh Kirsty. I have nothing I can suggest more than what the people above have done, I just wish I could do something for you.
I'm sure, whatever you chose will be the best decision possible for Boo, she is so lucky to have you.
You know where I am xxxx
 

Patches

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Blimey Tia

I was already tearful reading Boodle's post but your story has tipped me over the edge.....pass me the kleenex please
frown.gif



Boodle,

I don't have any specific advice for you but Tia's advice is good. I've never had to make that decision yet for any of my horses. However, I've seen it written on this forum and read in books etc many times that owners just "know" when it's time to say goodbye as their horse tells them.

Go with your instinct. Big hugs to you.
 

Boodle

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Thanks so much everyone, your support and advice has been an absolute god send, you have no idea.

I did as suggested today and took a good hard look at Boo, at her future, at what quality of life she can have and at her likelihood of recovery.

Boo's laminitis is very manageable, she comes off grass during April/mayto prevent it, but from June to March she can be out 24/7 without a problem, so long as her grass intake and the type of grazing she is on is scrutinised.

If it comes down to the conclusion that she will never be turned out again, i will not hesitate in having her pass away as i feel a horse stabled 24/7 has no quality of life. However, the vet says that theres still a chance she will be fine to go out like she used to... and im clinging onto that hope.

She hasnt given up yet, so i dont think I should either.

I took a few pics and a video of her today... which illpost later if i get the chance.

Just thought id let you all know.

Thanks again, so much for all your support.

Kirsty
 

meandmyself

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"She still has SO much life in her yet, and she is still as happy and content as she always was despite the box rest. I spend hours on end with her, and as she is just in my garage she has visitors throughout the day who all bring her cuddles and kind words."

I think you've answered your own question there. If she's still enjoying life, keep her as comfortable as you can and keep trying. You'll know when she's had enough.

*Huge hugs*
 

Moggy in Manolos

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Oh Kirsty i really feel for you and poor Boo. I can only echo the advice given above, as you will know when you look into her eyes, and if the vet says there is no hope you will know what to do, but he says she may pull through fine, so i would fight for her if she also wants to fight and by the sounds of it she does, all the best hun, thinking of you and boo xxx
 

Ravenwood

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You've had so many wonderful answers already but I just wanted to say that although it is a terrible decision to make you must remember it is the kindest thing we can do for our animals to make the right decision. When I decided to have my old arthritic horse pts I know that he could probably have lived for still quite some time but he looked so miserable I just couldn't see the point of letting him hang on until he was really suffering and at the end of the day once its done they know no more - its us that lives with our conscience. Whatever you decide to do you will justify it in your own mind. Life can be so hard sometimes.
 

suestowford

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[ QUOTE ]
However, I've seen it written on this forum and read in books etc many times that owners just "know" when it's time to say goodbye as their horse tells them.


[/ QUOTE ]

My old boy told me when he'd had enough. You will know it when you see it Boodle.
 

Boodle

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Thanks again to everyone for all your support. Its truly appreciated.

Boo seems to have picked up a bit today... still gets overwhelmingly excited when she hears the words " DIN DINS!!" or "Hungry?!".

Ill keep you all updated.

Thanks again, so much.
 
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