When is enough enough? Need advice please.

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DalesDiva

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Hello,

I've posted in the past about my new forest gelding and things have now reached crisis point.

I now cannot do anything with him and I am quickly running out of ideas.

EVERYTHING is a battle with him and I do mean everything. He had been improving up until March, but has now gone totally back over and is worse than ever. On the ground he is bargy, pushy, and incredibly strong. He's now gotten into the habit of pulling away from me and running back to the field. I now have to lead him in a bridle to have any sort of control, and even then he tries his best to break away. It takes at least 20 minutes to tack him up. As soon as you try to bridle him his head goes up and he tries to barge past you. He's really strong as well and I'm quite petite, which doesn't help.

When been ridden it's a totally lottery as to whether he will behave or not. He is a nightmare to ride at least 80% of the time. He bucks, spins, barges, bolts and uses ANY excuse to get out of work. I can't hack him off the farm as he's too dangerous. I consider it a major achievement if I can ride round the farm for 15 minutes without a bolting/bucking episode.

I've had endless lessons off the yard trainer and since March there's been no improvement. I've stopped now because it just seems a complete waste of money. I paid for four weeks schooling livery the month before last and the first time I rode him after he was more badly behaved than ever before. I also used to get yard owner to school him, but now that makes no difference when I ride him, so again I stopped. He's fine for the YO, but she's a much better rider than me. :(

His teeth have been done recently, saddle checked, vet has seen him for me. No physical issues can be found.

I'm also trying to conceive at the moment and I know that he will be totally untrustworthy to handle if I get pregnant. I've already had two bad falls from him this year.

I've been advised to sell, but I honestly don't know who would buy him! I've also been told to put through the sales which I would clearly never do. I can't afford to keep him as a pet for the next 20 years. I've even considered pts because I am so totally at my wits end.

What do I do? I can't afford yet more training for him, and to be honest the money I've spent so far has made no difference at all. We aren't suited, but I honestly don't know who else would take him on.

I'm at my wits end. It's actually making me depressed and I can barely stand to look at him because I feel so guilty.
 
Gosh, no proper advice really as I've never been in that sort of situation just wanted to say I feel for you. How did he behave whilst on schooling livery?? It really seems you aren't suited for each other!!!
 
Sorry for your troubles. Horses should be a pleasure. If he were mine I would give up the idea of riding him for the time being. His in-hand work needs to be corrected first. Only lead him in a bridle and hang on if he pulls away. He simply must not get away. He must learn to lead nicely, eventually on a loose rein, stand well, be tied up, groomed and generally be good to handle. Pretend you are taking him to the horse of the year show and he must behave well in the ring. Work on this until its all second nature. You have at least all winter and all next year too if you need it. be consistent, very very firm and little and often. when hes good introduce long reining in tack and walks in hand wearing tack. only when all this is firmly established should you think about riding him.
 
So sorry to hear of your struggles OP.

You say he's good for your YO but she's more experienced than you, what's he like with other riders? And how experienced are you? Could it be that he's taking advantage of your lack of experience? If that is the case, it doesn't sound like he's unsellable, just not a good match for you. There's no shame in that.

I can totally understand your concerns given you're trying to conceive. In your shoes I'd perhaps ask whether your YO could help sell him and take a cut of the sales price, or you could look at sales livery but I suspect that'd cost more than the horse is worth.
 
I would agree that he is taking advantage, the longer it goes on the worse for both of you. It does not sound to me that he is unsaleable, but I agree I would sell him via sales livery or the Yard owner.
 
Sorry to hear your struggling like this.
Honestly if he's fine for your yard owner then I'd be considering asking them to help you sell him, if you've tried your best and your just not a good match then it'll be what's best for both of you.
 
Enough is enough, when you've had enough! It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If you don't much like him anymore or get any pleasure from him, then cut your losses and sell. Someone will buy him, you may have to accept a low price but be honest. He's not a total lost cause if he is good for your YO, and as a NF he is small enough for a pony-mad teenager who might enjoy the challenge.
 
having a horse is supposed to be fun .
He's the wrong horse for you .
If I were you I would either pts or give away to someone he respects .
Much as I love horses and have been through all sorts of stupid stuff to help them it's not compulsory to keep going and ruin your leisure time over a horse .
 
So may replies already. Thank you everyone.

He's quite good when YO rides him, but will still try and test her out a bit first. She is a competition rider though and schools peoples horses all day long. So she clearly has quite the advantage over me!

However he is a nightmare (in her words) for the head girl who has to tack him up to be ridden. I think she quietly dreads dealing with him. He's also a swine when she lunges him. He's snapped two cheek pieces and one set of reins in last six months due to spinning and pulling away.

So whilst I agree that he is definitely taking the p**s out of me, I would also have to say he's far from an angel for others. Head girl says she can't work out what it is that makes him tick and that she has never known a horse like him. She's a really experienced horsewoman as well and takes no rubbish from any equine.

Regarding groundwork. I have tried to improve it. I honestly can't quite convey what he's like though. He will barge, push etc over and over and over. He sometimes improves for a week or two (or was up until March) but then goes back over. I even took him to a Jason Webb groundwork clinic and he couldn't really do much with him!!!

Unfortunately I don't have the endless time he needs to potentially sort out his issues. I live in London and it's over a two hour round trip to the yard. He does have endless energy that needs working off. YO says she has never known a horse with so much excess energy. Trouble is when he works more he gets fitter and then stronger and more badly behaved. It's a vicious circle :(

I'd never considered sales livery. I would have to look at costs for it, although I'm on a really tight budget. I don't even care about making money for him. A good home could take him for free. I'm just really scared of hi going to a bad one and getting passed around.
 
These people are very good at helping in situations like this - not only to get him behaving for them, but giving you exercises and techniques to use to get the relationship between you and him back on track. And most aren't horrendously expensive, one visit might find the key, or you might need a couple, but for his sake and yours it would be a good investment. He is clearly stressed and unhappy.
Where are you?
http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-associates/
 
I'm in Kent.

Thank you for the links, although I don't have any current budget for getting anyone out :(

I'm not so sure about him being stressed and unhappy though. He's certainly not stressed when he's out in the field eating his head off. He just doesn't want to do his job.

I do appreciate all input though :)
 
Thank you pinkvboots.

Sales livery seems to be substantially more in Kent from what I can see though :(

Does anyone think a loan home could work? I've never sold or loaned any of my horses before. That's why I'm so clueless with this. I've always given my horses a home for life.
 
I was looking at projecthorses yesterday funnily enough.

Can it be trusted though? I'm so suspicious of him potentially going somewhere unscrupulous.
 
This is the type of horse I am actually quite good at dealing with but you HAVE to be 10000% confident and consistent.

If he was mine I would be working on his groundwork mostly, I do not abide by bad manners on the ground and my belief is that if they don't respect you on the floor where you do most of the handling, what is going to make them want to cooperate under saddle.

The techniques I use involve getting them out of your space, getting their attention onto you and setting very firm ground rules as to what is and isn't acceptable and stick to them. However, with a horse like this who knows his strength, you have to be firm. I am not talking about hitting or beating, I am talking confident and consistent, you can't let one hoof come out of line as they will just regress!

However - you are trying to concieve, you want to start a family and you want a horse that you can do basic stuff with on the ground safely which is completely understandable, heck lets face it, its a dangerous enough hobby as it is!

I agree with what others have said, put him on livery to sell. If I was in your position I would. If it isn't fun for you anymore, there isn't any point!

In the meantime, make sure you are wearing a hat/gloves when you handle him.

ETA: Incidentilly do you know any of his history? Is there anything that could have triggered this behaviour in the past?
 
DalesDiva said:
He's on full grass livery and gets no hard feed atm. In fact he hasn't had any hard feed since April!
Click to expand...

It might be a long shot, but some horses can react very badly to grass. There's an Australian site called Calm healthy horses who have advised a few people I know in the UK with some impressive results. Just adding salt to one horses diet seemed to turn him from nutter to just forward going.

I wouldn't stop looking at training, selling options but in the meantime reading their site can't hurt.
http://www.calmhealthyhorses.com
 
DalesDiva said:
Thank you for the links, although I don't have any current budget for getting anyone out
Click to expand...

Most of the people on that list will cost you considerably less than having him PTS. Or sales livery. You could try working through the exercises in one of Kelly Marks' books, you can get them on Amazon for less than £10
 
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Just an idea, but mine can be a total pig on the ground, similar sort of antics, very rude, you cant hold him or handle him easily, but its only when hes in pain, the rest of the time hes cheeky and you have to keep on top of him manners wise, but hes easy and safe to handle. Have you had a vet have a look?
 
Give him away to someone who can manage him, then accept the risk they may sell him onto someone who thinks they can manage him but can't, or PTS. If he's not a competition type horse and therefore wouldn't find a home for life with that sort of person, I'd PTS.

A pony mad teenager might want him but is it right to let them have him, given the harm he could potentially cause someone. Whatever the reason for his behaviour, if the experienced head girl, competition rider YO and professional horse behaviour person can't really get anywhere with him or understand him, is it likely anybody else will be able to? Unless perhaps you're regularly undoing all their good work by being nervous around him, you do sound afraid of him to some degree, but he also went on schooling livery for a month and didn't change much without your involvement.

I'm more inclined to think his problems are ingrained and unlikely to be solved in the long term. You've had him investigated for pain, as much as is ordinarily reasonable and as much as you can afford, so I don't see you can realistically do much more there. it's a sad sitiuation.
 
That's just it Dammnation, it isn't any fun anymore. In fact I dread handling him and he knows it now! I can feel myself getting tense and anxious from the moment I even put his head collar on.

I've tried the calm consistent approach and if anything it makes him worse! I'm probably not explaining myself well, but it's honestly like he has equine ADD or something.

I totally accept that possibly with lots of time, training and money he might come good. Unfortunately I am not in the position to offer him it :( Also, it's a total 50/50 as to whether it will work. Nothing has so far and I've invested so much in him already.

I will have a think about all the options suggested. Thanks you.

I don't think he's in pain FrankieCob. Vet has seen him and said he seems in the pink of health.
 
I'd never risk selling him to a teenager Sugar and Spice. He's not safe enough and I would never forgive myself if somebody got hurt by him.

I am starting to get a little afraid of him to be honest and that's not like me at all. I'm normally a pretty brave rider, but he's knocking my confidence.

There's this part of me that feels it's all my fault and that perhaps he could come good with more intensive work, training etc. I feel so guilty that I can't offer him it :(

With regards to background. I bought him off my friend who had him from being a foal. She sold him to me because he wasn't going to be for her. She said he was more than she wanted to deal with, but stupidly I fell in love with him! I know 100% that he's never been abused or had a really bad experience. I also know 100% that he's never been allowed to get away with bad behaviour, but that doesn't stop him doing it.
 
Sometimes the horse/owner relationship just does not click.
Sell him - be absolutely 100% honest when you advertise him - there is someone out there that will turn him in to a nice horse.
 
DalesDiva said:
Hello,

I've posted in the past about my new forest gelding and things have now reached crisis point.

I now cannot do anything with him and I am quickly running out of ideas.

EVERYTHING is a battle with him and I do mean everything. He had been improving up until March, but has now gone totally back over and is worse than ever. On the ground he is bargy, pushy, and incredibly strong. He's now gotten into the habit of pulling away from me and running back to the field. I now have to lead him in a bridle to have any sort of control, and even then he tries his best to break away. It takes at least 20 minutes to tack him up. As soon as you try to bridle him his head goes up and he tries to barge past you. He's really strong as well and I'm quite petite, which doesn't help.

When been ridden it's a totally lottery as to whether he will behave or not. He is a nightmare to ride at least 80% of the time. He bucks, spins, barges, bolts and uses ANY excuse to get out of work. I can't hack him off the farm as he's too dangerous. I consider it a major achievement if I can ride round the farm for 15 minutes without a bolting/bucking episode.

I've had endless lessons off the yard trainer and since March there's been no improvement. I've stopped now because it just seems a complete waste of money. I paid for four weeks schooling livery the month before last and the first time I rode him after he was more badly behaved than ever before. I also used to get yard owner to school him, but now that makes no difference when I ride him, so again I stopped. He's fine for the YO, but she's a much better rider than me. :(

His teeth have been done recently, saddle checked, vet has seen him for me. No physical issues can be found.

I'm also trying to conceive at the moment and I know that he will be totally untrustworthy to handle if I get pregnant. I've already had two bad falls from him this year.

I've been advised to sell, but I honestly don't know who would buy him! I've also been told to put through the sales which I would clearly never do. I can't afford to keep him as a pet for the next 20 years. I've even considered pts because I am so totally at my wits end.

What do I do? I can't afford yet more training for him, and to be honest the money I've spent so far has made no difference at all. We aren't suited, but I honestly don't know who else would take him on.

I'm at my wits end. It's actually making me depressed and I can barely stand to look at him because I feel so guilty.
Click to expand...

have you thought about getting a horse physic out to your horse? some people with bad horses get to know things that they would have never known
 
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