When is it best to keep a laminitic in?

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Aperchristmas

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Over the last week my mini shetland has put on an alarming amount of weight, despite being on a small paddock with not much grass. He is 3yrs old and has never had laminitus before but as we all know, they can get it at any time! I have never needed a grazing muzzle on him before but have decided to order him one tonight because I really want him to lose weight. As part of his losing weight plan I am going to keep him in with soaked hay either during the day or the night. The reason I'm asking which time is better is because I have completely forgotten when the grass is most dangerous for laminitics! So when is it best to bring them in and could anyone make any amendments to my weight loss regime?

He will be in either during the day or night with hay that has been soaked for over 12 hours. When out, he will have a grazing muzzle on. I'm planning on lunging him for 20min a day and taking him for a half hour walk in hand as well.

RE the grazing muzzle: I have been told that the dinky rugs grazing muzzle is very good but I'm unsure on sizing. My boy is approx 32" with a fine head - any ideas?

Thank you very much and apologies for my numptiness with regards to laminitus. Because I am very careful with my horses' weight and none of them have ever had it I have never needed to concern myself too much with the details but now he has put on weight I definitely need to do some reading up!
 
Best keeping them in during the day and turn out at night.

Don't starve him as this can lead to other issues so use small holed haynets and double net so the holes are even smaller.
Soak your hay for 12 hrs or longer but any longer than 12hrs change the water Use fresh water every net you soak.
Weigh your hay (dry) as not all slices weigh the same.

Greenguard muzzles are very good.
 
Thanks very much. I'm not planning on starving him at all because this will just make him greedier and more likely to gorge on grass. He will have ad lib hay when he comes in and although he will have a grazing muzzle he will definitely be getting enough grass. I have looked into the greenguard muzzles but they are very expensive and I have been told that they rub a lot.
 
Grass is at its sugariest at about 4pm, if you contact an Agricultural College and ask about grass sugars [generally rather than horse related] they should be able to give you lots of info,or Google for papers on grass growth. Also,is it possible to graze the paddock with sheep? they nibble the grass very short and that makes it more difficult for the pony to get at the grass.
 
Pretty sure it is in before 10am and out after dark or at dusk??? Avoid frosty mornings - hopefully none of those for a while!!!
 
The Dinky Rugs muzzle is great for tiny heads. If you're not sure of the size phone them rather than order online. The ladies there are very helpful and will make sure you get the right size.
 
my shetland goes out for up to 5 hours from about 7 am to 12. then comes in for a sleep he likes his stable!!! has a handful of hay at 5, a couple of feed buckets to super clean and lick, and another handful of hay (normally one of the big horses left overs!!) about 8 to 9 pm. he is ridden about 2x a week. has a good canter around every day. he does well on this routine.
 
I recently attended a RVC lecture and one of the questions was about turnout timings, the speaker (Dr Nicola Menzies-Gow, MA VetMB PhD DipECEIM CertEM(Int.med) FHEA MRCVS ) answered
The worst time of day to have your good doers out on pasture is from sunrise (around ½ an hour after the sun rises) to after mid morning (around 11am) when then grass is actively growing. In today’s world this is not always possible, aim to bring in as early as you can and perhaps share with other liveries to bring in and turn back out
 
My horse had laminitis last year (I think it was concussion laminitis but she was still too fat). Then she went on a strict diet which was staying in 24/7 on shavings (wasn't happy but the vet said to) and 2 sections of a small bale of hay a day (she is 14.1hh). I weighed her hay - 1% of bodyweight daily for weight loss. I soaked it for 24 hours prior to feeding - she got one section at night in two small holed haynets and in the morning I left her daytime hay outside and everyone fed her a small handful as they were passing to trickle feed. I fed blue chip lami light for her vitamins - this has to be included in the 1% food allowance. When she was allowed out it was restricted at first then gradually increased on a bald patch.
This year she gets ad-lib dry hay on the floor, blue chip lami light and a handful of hifi lite to hide her joint supplements in. She goes out on the scrub patch for as long as we like. I had to be careful all winter to keep the weight off - she is currently 380 kgs down from 440 kgs this time last year. She works a lot - did a four hour hack today, sponsored rides, dressage, lessons, jumping, at least an hour a day and usually more.
If your shetland hasn't got laminitis and is just fat definitely do lots of exercise so you don't have to cut the food down so much - can you lunge him, long rein, walk out, find small people to ride...?
I have tried using a greenguard muzzle in the past. It didn't rub but my horse won't wear it and just rips it off (along with her face!) so now I just have to keep her away from the grass. It sucks because she does miss out on herd life and on wandering around in the big fields but at least she is healthy. My friend has a shires bucket muzzle which restricts eating much more than greenguard does - it works really well for her and her pony.
 
Hmmm so much conflicting advice is available - its difficult to know what to believe. I heard and read That sugar content increases as the day warms up and the amount of sunlight the grass receives increases so afternoon/ early evening is the most dangerous time. Sunny days are therefore particularly dangerous but frosty sunny mornings are too because of the cold then heat (hopefully not too many of those sjould happen now!) and also just after rain. So sugar levels do fluctuate....

Also sugar levels in new growth is high so bare paddocks aren't good so do you turnout on longer lusher grass for a couple of hours / in a muzzle or leave them out longer on the bared paddock??!? Argghhhhh

Also I heard it's good to feed mag ox to help metabolise the insulin and also proibotics and anti oxidants to get rid of the toxins.

I am no laminitis expert by the way - this is just stuff I have picked up along the way of having lami ponies!
 
Jericho, you've hit nail ont' head there about conflicting info......

It's like a moving target!!!

I bring my lami-prone in for the day during spring and autumn the last two years. Then full turnout winter/summer.

My reasoning now is that, starving them makes them gorge more and I think a study was published in H&H which confirmed my fears.

The other thing I do now is detox often (trinity consultants) and feed nowt but fibre (have to feed to get his meds in - only a handful of chaff though) after advice from vet and leading nutritionist with special interest in laminitis. I ask for blood tests periodically from the vet (at my own cost.. gah!) so I know what's going on with his liver and kidneys. Just like you would do with a diabetic human. Then I tell trinity and they make up a supplement for me.

Also, contrary to popular belief, I took his shoes off. Now I can tell if he's sensitive BEFORE he gets lami and take him off the grass - i's like an early warning system. So far, we've seem to have got things on an even keel. BUT that could change after rain - I'll bring him back in after that... and ride him from the stable. Lack of shoes has not scuppered our riding, we still hack for hours barefoot.

Anyway, this is a dramatic change from his management 2 years or so ago..... muzzles and whatnot.

p.s. I have heard of Metformin being used - however a trial that tested it said the results were inconsistent but it might be worth a go if your think your horse/pony might benefit,
 
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Jericho said:
Hmmm so much conflicting advice is available - its difficult to know what to believe. I heard and read That sugar content increases as the day warms up and the amount of sunlight the grass receives increases so afternoon/ early evening is the most dangerous time. Sunny days are therefore particularly dangerous but frosty sunny mornings are too because of the cold then heat (hopefully not too many of those sjould happen now!) and also just after rain. So sugar levels do fluctuate....
Click to expand...
This is more my understanding. Grass needs sun to photosynthesize and at night above around 4c it respires (uses energy/sugars) sugars build up during the day and are used at night in temps above 4c is a rough guide. A run of sunny days and cold nights is especially dangerous as the levels build day on day I believe.
Here's a great but mind boggling site with loads of info and research.
http://www.safergrass.org/
 
If you want to give him something else to do in his stable then the decahedron toys are fantastic at keeping the occupied, just put a small handful of hi-fibre nuts in and it'll keep him occupied for hours xx
 
Its a toughie - and for me even worse when cushings is involved also.. i personally swear by grazing muzzles, as for the rubbing - i solved this problem by sewing sheepskin onto the areas where it rubbed, there are ways and means to solve the problems. I would rather see my boy out and about than cooped up in a stable.
 
Lots of answers, so I'll just throw my bit in for good measure :D

Little Lad (13.0hh Welsh cross we believe), about twenty/twenty-five years old, laminitic :(. When he was in a pen he would jump out, or otherwise Houdini out when the fencing went up to five feet high! So, we would keep him in for a day and a night (12 hour soaked hay ad lib) and then turn out for a day and a night in the normal field with the others. Worked well for him :D. Now he's out on short-ish grass, but not stressed, 24/7 and so far is doing okay. As he's developed arthritis, I'm seriously hoping he does not get laminitis again as that will be an utter bummer for him and for managing.

Good luck with you lad hun.
 
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