When is it time to call it a day, feeling desperate!!

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lunarlove

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So I have a 17 year old horse that has a bad history of abuse and neglect, this is combined with some really high levels of care whilst show jumping but he went sour and after various different people trying to beat him into a career that he didnt want he was given up on and passed over to dealers where he has been passed from pillar to post. I had him for 2 and half years and had a fantastic relationship with him, it took lots of work but we got there but he was a mess, then he went tricky again and became hard to catch and turn out, bolting became an issue. Unfortunalty all this came at a time my marriage fell apart and I found myself unable to keep him for financial reasons so sold him to a friend on the condition she would keep him as her school horse and if she wanted to sell him Id get first refusal...fast forward three months, she has sold him to a dealer as she said he was dangerous and had no forwarding details for me, I traced him through the powers of the internet and for the last 2 years have broke my heart following him from home to home all over the country (5 homes in all), fast forward again to last sept and the lady that had him couldn't deal with him any more but couldnt bare to see him go through all this again so gifted him back to me. I have spent the last 4 months building our relationship back up and its been going great, even been able to catch him and turn him out, (ok I have to use a chiffney but it was the last resort and it works). However, had a blip yesturday and he bolted into his paddock for no reason and with no warning, all I can think of was he has sore heels and doesnt like walking through the mud in the gateway to get to the grass but he had chiffney on, luckily he only had a slip rope on so that came straight off but it has frightnened him and as his smaller paddock is resting the only field that was available was a huge one, which to be fair he was behaving well in, until now. I can only get near enough to feed him but his eyes are wild and if I try to get my hand anywhere near him he shoots off, I managed to get him to take a carrot off me this morn but as soon as my hand moved he was gone, this is breaking my heart as he has a chiffney still on. Please dont all start to yell at me for this, I know its a terrible situation and Im trying my best, we've tried herding him but that makes him worse, we've tried other horses to temp him but he isnt interested he has gone completely back to stage one. Now I know that over the next couple of days I will regain his trust through the power of food and patience and then I can start again just by vistiting him for food treats and scratches but I HAVE to speed this up as he cant keep a chiffney on, though he seems unfased by it.
My worry is he is 17 now and I have recently discovered that in one of the homes he had in the last two years someone had some travellers out to try to sort him out and they where brutal with him and he ended up with a wheel barrow tied to him for two days...not sure what this was to prove apart from messing up an already screwed up horse so add this sort of treatment to his already traumatic previous life and your left with a mess!! He is an angel in the stable, angel to ride but when hes in an outdoor enviroment his issues with people are shocking, he wont tie up, he is terrible to catch, he is terrified of men, bolts for no reason on the ground BUT I had him in a really good place, I have had to restart him before and know I can acheive it and I know how, but it is so emotional to see him so wild again and be back here and I cant help but think at his age, is he ever going to be in a better place metally or is it time to retire him and let him live an easy life with plenty of love and TLC. I have just introduced a calmer (NAF Magic) to see if it helps and in the mean time It's mission get the chiffney off and get him to be my friend again and get the trust back, the question is what next, back to work,to maybe end up here AGAIN or reitre him and let him live his days out happt and safe with me. Im feeling pretty heart broken to be honest and very defeated.
 
If he were mine, I'd put a large amount of sedalin in his food, catch him once doped, bring him in and call the hunt to PTS
 
Parkerpops said:
If he were mine, I'd put a large amount of sedalin in his food, catch him once doped, bring him in and call the hunt to PTS
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Me too, probably would have done that 2 years ago instead of selling him to my 'friend'. Perfect example of an old horse being passed around when the kindest thing would have been to PTS. :(
 
Poor poor horse :(
It may be possible to bring him round but tbh to me he sounds as if he's too far gone into fear to be reached. I'd also probably PTS.
 
Sedating seems like a good idea to catch him and get the chiffney off, and perhaps also over the next week you could do this once a day to see if you can get closer to him for gentle handling - neck scratching and so on. I suppose his future then depends on how much time you are prepared to invest in regaining his trust. You seem to think that you can do it, but do you want to?

If he is an angel, how about using sedation to get him in, and keep him in while you handle him, ride him and generally treat him very kindly for a period? Doesn't sound like he is safe to put out, so maybe he would be happier living in. It's not normally something i would do, but he sounds like a special case.

Otherwise, I just wanted to express sympathy.... clearly you care very much about him and are doing all you can. Don't feel bad if sorting it out again is more than you can manage. xx
 
Being brutally honest I'd try retiring him and if he still doesn't chill out any then I'd PTS - for his sake more than anything. It can't be nice for him living his life frightened and stressed.

Are you able to leave him out 24/7 where you are? If you are then keep visiting until you get the chiffney off then leave him be for a while, just go and feed him, check him and walk away. If you don't see any improvement then you really will have to re-think.

Not a nice situation for you to be in - it must be so upsetting but you really do have to think of what is best for him.

Good luck.
 
NellRosk said:
Me too, probably would have done that 2 years ago instead of selling him to my 'friend'. Perfect example of an old horse being passed around when the kindest thing would have been to PTS. :(
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Believe me the "friend" is no longer on the christmas card list and our freindship ended VERY badly!!
 
He sounds a very unhappy boy. I think the kindest thing to him, and to yourself is to PTS. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to here, but to be honest, I think you already know. xx
 
Hugs OP you sound as though you really care about this horse and have done wonders for him. Only you know whether you have the energy and emotional capacity to carry on with him - it probably feels right now as if the answer is no but in brighter weather with a few successes behind you it may feel different. You clearly have a great way with him, to get him to trust you as much as you already have, and I am sure you will get there again. But you have done huge amounts, more than most people would do, and if you do ever feel its the end of the line then I can't see how anyone could blame you. X x
 
Agree with the majority, put dope in his feed, catch him, and get the hunt. I honestly think his severe fear needs to be put to rest, and this is the only way. You will feel happier for it too, I promise.
 
What a difficult and upsetting situation to find yourself in :(
He clearly has a lot of very big issues. I agree that sadly, PTS seems the best option.
 
NellRosk said:
I can imagine!! What a horrible person to pass him on after 12 weeks and not even let you know.
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It completely broke my heart, she sold him for 4 times what I let her have him for and with none of his tack and ruges, even failed to tell them that he had a stable name, just solf him as his passport name, just devastating to see all my work broken just like that.
 
Awful lunarlove :( I think if he isn't happy now then PTS is the best option and you can rest safe in the knowledge he won't be passed around or abused anymore. Sorry for this crappy situation you're in. xx
 
Thank you so much guys, Im now a wreck again, this is impossible, I almost know that this deep fear he has is never going to leave him but then I get close to him again and he nuzzles me and follows me about and I think "yes, Ive cracked it" but then a week later Im back to square one. I cant realistically bring him in 24/7 as I have very young children so dont have the time to work him everydayduring the winter months and every other horse on the yard gets turned out daily and he goes ape if he is on the yard by himself, resulting in even more issues with trying to turn out or generally work with. He also has a heart murmour, paralysed larynx and is bad to shoe and load too so there are so many issues BUT as I said when I get him going well he is great so long as you dont relax too much arounf him. He can live out 24/7 and I have been offered a complanion horse for him, Im thinking maybe retire him see how it goes and make my decision before next winter if he copes ok, great, if not PTS.That actually makes me feel sick just saying it :(
 
I think that pts would be a blessing for this poor horse. Living every day in fear and possibly pain if he has something physical wrong, on top along with having a chifney fitted constantly is grossly unfair for him. I think wanting to regain his trust would be more for your sake than his if I'm totally honest. I'm another that would dope him and let him go.
 
You clearly care deeply about him and yes I think it's time to retire him and forget about riding him, give the poor guy a break. If you have the facilities then turn him out, let him chill, take him a treat/feed each day but don't try to catch him (obviously I know you need to get the chifney off first). As long as you can get close enough to generally check his health and well being, then leave him be for a few weeks and let him catch you. If there's no improvement then I think you do need to think about PTS, otherwise you will never be able to get close enough to look after basic needs like his feet and worming.
 
Sorry to say it but i feel so sorry for this horse. But i agree with PTS.

As another said trying to regain his trust would perhaps be more for you than him as deep down even if you regain his trust that fear is still there and only takes one setback to undo it all. You say he also has these health issues, which may only get worse and need more care, and he is hard to have feet done then that will scare him too. I would sedate him if you can bring him in and call the vet, if he will stand it then give him a nice long groom and massage before he goes and then you can rest in the fact that although he has lived a lot of his life scared to death that he will leave it in peace.

Others that have said turn him out to retire, i disagree it sounds like even living out that this horse is in fear of the whole world around him and thats not good for any animal. Look at the 5 freedoms on DEFRA, if any of these are compromised for long periods then PTS is the best answer.
 
My personal opinion is to get a second opinion! Without actually seeing what the horse is like and only relying on your description it's difficult to make a judgement. What about getting in touch with a Parelli trainer or similar if you definitely want to give this horse another chance? You really need somebody who is actually seeing what is happening to help you to make a decision one way or the other.
 
When he is turned out is he alone?

I agree with the sedating to catch and remove the chiffney, but TBH I don't think I have enough information to advise you to PTS! There could be something causing his behaviour that you just haven't identified yet. He sounds like a really insecure boy who is terrified of something happening when he is being turned out. could he be turned out in the school? Is he the same then, or is it going into the fields he finds frightening? Does he have company? It may well be that the kindest thing would be to PTS but people on a forum do not know him, only you can make that call.
 
`Think about what he has actually done wrong with you, it appears he has run off before you have removed his chifney and now won't be caught. Don't blame him if he has been running round attached to a wheel barrow!!
Lots of people think they know more and can deal with much more than they actually can, so I never judge a horse by what people tell me only what i see.
I think a second opinion of a trusted friend is whats needed here.
I would try not to worry about the chifney (easier said than do I know) and just keep going giving him a carrot in the field and then walking away - now if he were to show some aggressive behavior to you whilst you were doing that - that might then change my thoughts. Until such a time as he accepts you being there. I wouldn't try and do any more until he is ready. Perhaps I am just odd!
 
Agreed Sarah W. Time, kindness and patience... as you say you have done it before but he needs some quality of life to keep going, you really need to put your feelings to one side and look at it objectively, can he be retired and have a quality of life? Give it some time to see.
 
thank you everyone, I have just had a long chat with someone that knows me and him well and they think PTS is the way forward with him, I just feel that maybe I could, maybe I owe it to him to have a behavioural expert look at him, but Im a but cynical with a horse of 17 being helped, I have worked with foals/yearlings for a long time and I think you can recognise behaviours then and work on things but is it really possible to do this with a horse of this age? if anyone can offer any advise/experience stories Id be keen to hear as a last ditch attempt to bring him some happiness. Thank you all again.
 
My concern would be for you as the last thing you can afford to happen to you because you have young children is for you to be injured and be unable to look after your children.

It sounds as if this horse has been seriously mentally traumatised during his life to date and may also suffer from some physical injuries which are producing pain to which the poor horse reacts to.

However to establish what is wrong with him he really needs to be taken to an equine hospital where they can thoroughly check him out and determine if he does have any problems and this would prove both time consuming, traumatic and expensive and you still may not get a definitive answer to your poor horses problems.

Very sadly it sounds as if this poor horse has some major fears and that life is proving quite terrifying to him.

I would suggest that most the above posts have been very sensible and have the interest of yourself and your children at heart and that now you have had these sensible replies to your post you need to have a hard think of what would be best to do.

You have all my sympathies and I very much hope that you can come to a decision with which you can be happy with.
 
Not necessarily Parelli but somebody who can give an honest opinion and can be trusted. It just seems wrong to say pts based on the description given.
 
sedate to get the chifney off and then...

can you move him anywhere he could live in a barn situation? so not turned out in a large area (mighe help him feel more secure?) but has more space than a stable to mooch round and stretch his legs, roll etc?

is he good with other horses? if you could barn him with a shetty/small pony would having a buddy help him relax do you think?

IMO i dont think he's at the end of the line yet, if he is still happy to be handled(when in) and ridden?

im not even sure i would retire him, old horses, like old people, do best when exercising lightly and it might help strengthen the bond between you?
 
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