When supercob met the super(osteopathic)vet...

Roxylola

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Not Mr Firzpatrick obviously as supercob is a bit big to fit on his exam table.

Yesterday Charlie had an appointment with Tom Beech, the osteopathic vet.
Over summer he's had a little niggle with being reluctant to pick up his left fore for hoof care. He has mallanders which is worst on that leg but its managed and for the most part not too bad and the reluctance didn't seem to correlate with the scabs being better or worse.

We gave him 2 weeks off work entirely and it didn't make any difference, he's had periods of hard work, periods of light work, still the same intermittent niggle. He's been sound and consistent in his work throughout. He had his saddle checked - no issues, but saddler thought maybe left hock. He had a physio appointment, again no significant issues but physio thought it could be an issue with the right foreleg not wanting to weight bear. Farrier suspected left shoulder...

So rather than going for a performance/lameness type work up at the regular vets I contacted Tom having seen him mentioned numerous times here, and followed his Facebook for some time. I decided his holistic approach would be an ideal way to tackle the issue.

So yesterday was the day. He initially found there was tightness in the poll, jaw, and neck, a little at the front of the withers. He commented on how symmetrical Charlie is throughout his body. Checked both front legs and ruled out the front right being an issue, ruled out the left shoulder, found some lack/reluctance of mobility between knee and fetlock but said that could easily be related to mallanders and him being a bit protective of his scabby knee pits.

Moving back he was happy with the thoracic spine under the saddle. He then came to the hind legs and pelvic area. He noted some tightness and conformation issues at the sacrum. The sacrum is lower than it should/could be. Some is conformation and as such there will always be a tendency for this to happen, but as a result Charlie has not been using himself as effectively there and therefore compounded the problem. Now Charlie is 12 this year so there may be some arthritis involved as its been a long term issue for him but Tom manipulated his pelvic region and you could see Charlie's bottom change shape across his croup from two distinct curves where the muscle was higher than the spine (very much a cob bottom) to almost a single smooth one.

We've been recommended to work lower as much as possible - I don't work him up up but lots of work with his eyes level with his hips, and at least once a week some in hand "walking pilates" so work over poles, progressing to raised poles, walking backwards in hand all to really keep the sacrum up and functioning better.

He's hopeful this should lead to a significant improvement in the next few months. He also felt that the tightness hed felt in front was as a result of the sacrum issues and would improve significantly with the changes. As he manipulated the pelvis obviously I was at the front end and could see the ripples coming through his body to a lovely soft head and neck wobble. All of the tight areas in front were clearly easier to move and manipulate following the pelvic work.

We are also hoping a slight tendency to be toe in on the left will be improved with this work, and we will be chatting with the farrier about this - obviously if he is shod as he's always been shod it won't allow the changes in his body to come to fruition, we aren't looking for the farrier to make drastic changes but hopefully just to encourage/allow the improvement to happen itself

Charlie did have a couple of ml of sedation as he was a bit resistant to the work and bracing initially, he will henceforth be known as "cheap date Charlie" as he was completely blotto'd by the sedative and staggered about like a drunk teenager.

I commented halfway through that we should have had before and after photos but unfortunately it was too late by then!
 

Bellaboo18

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Really interesting read, it would be nice to see a follow-up to this, to see how you get on over the next few months.
I've been tempted to get Tom out myself...
 

Roxylola

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Really interesting read, it would be nice to see a follow-up to this, to see how you get on over the next few months.
I've been tempted to get Tom out myself...
Hes excellent, lovely manner with the horses - summed Charlie up in about 5 minutes - god he's a mitherer isn't he ? - and yes he absolutely is.

I strongly hinted that I'd like to just follow him around and watch him work, its fascinating. He did not sadly offer me a job ☹
The front issues have been commented on by physios etc but nobody has looked at the connection with the back end before and as a rider I feel he sometimes lacks a bit of locomotive power so this should make a difference there I hope.

Hes really down to earth as well - did a proper belly laugh when I said about all the professionals' opinions about this left front leg. Its been troubling me quietly for a while, and I'm very conscious hes not my horse and I don't want to push and push, taking advantage of his good nature until he breaks.

I'd recommend him to anyone especially for a not quite issue like ours. I think standard vets would have probably cost more, taken longer, likely found a load of minor arthritis issues and not ever got to the bottom of it
 

jnb

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Where is he based? I would love to see what he makes of my cob, who is still green in the canter, paranoid me would just like to be sure I haven't missed anything..?
 

Roxylola

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Where is he based? I would love to see what he makes of my cob, who is still green in the canter, paranoid me would just like to be sure I haven't missed anything..?
He travels nationwide, he can and does offer call out but obviously if you can fit in with a convenient clinic thats cheaper for you especially for non urgent type things.
Technically his registered address is manchester but he basically has a set up where he has a route around the country that takes about 3 months so he's in Warwickshire every 3 months, manchester every 3 months, yorkshire, the new forest etc.
https://www.facebook.com/theosteopathicvet/
If you message him he responds pretty promptly
 

sbloom

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He travels nationwide, he can and does offer call out but obviously if you can fit in with a convenient clinic thats cheaper for you especially for non urgent type things.
Technically his registered address is manchester but he basically has a set up where he has a route around the country that takes about 3 months so he's in Warwickshire every 3 months, manchester every 3 months, yorkshire, the new forest etc.
https://www.facebook.com/theosteopathicvet/
If you message him he responds pretty promptly

He's just fab isn't he, and yes jnb, he travels all over and many are at locations where the yard owners/trainers will then be able to work with you with any groundwork, or even ridden work, to repair postural issues etc, to cement, and build on, Tom's work. I fit for one of his venue owners and it's fascinating seeing that kind of work, has changed the way I see saddle fitting.
 

Bellaboo18

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Hes excellent, lovely manner with the horses - summed Charlie up in about 5 minutes - god he's a mitherer isn't he ? - and yes he absolutely is.

I strongly hinted that I'd like to just follow him around and watch him work, its fascinating. He did not sadly offer me a job ☹
The front issues have been commented on by physios etc but nobody has looked at the connection with the back end before and as a rider I feel he sometimes lacks a bit of locomotive power so this should make a difference there I hope.

Hes really down to earth as well - did a proper belly laugh when I said about all the professionals' opinions about this left front leg. Its been troubling me quietly for a while, and I'm very conscious hes not my horse and I don't want to push and push, taking advantage of his good nature until he breaks.

I'd recommend him to anyone especially for a not quite issue like ours. I think standard vets would have probably cost more, taken longer, likely found a load of minor arthritis issues and not ever got to the bottom of it
Thank you, I'm seeing my vet tomorrow so will chat to him about getting Tom out.
 

SEL

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Thank you, I'm seeing my vet tomorrow so will chat to him about getting Tom out.

My vets were underwhelmed he didn't speak to them to get my mare's history. Personally I thought I can give her history more comprehensively than anyone else, but I think they expect it as professsional courtesy.

He's good, but not a miracle worker. He's seen mine twice and recommended her SI was scanned and steroid injected. There wasn't anything significant on the scan but she did respond to the small amount of steroid my vet injected so we'll probably re-do that at some point when her other issue has cleared up.
 

Gamebird

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My vets were underwhelmed he didn't speak to them to get my mare's history. Personally I thought I can give her history more comprehensively than anyone else, but I think they expect it as professional courtesy.

Not so much a professional courtesy as a professional requirement. It's a rule in the RCVS Guide To Professional Conduct.
 

Roxylola

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My vets were underwhelmed he didn't speak to them to get my mare's history. Personally I thought I can give her history more comprehensively than anyone else, but I think they expect it as professsional courtesy.

He's good, but not a miracle worker. He's seen mine twice and recommended her SI was scanned and steroid injected. There wasn't anything significant on the scan but she did respond to the small amount of steroid my vet injected so we'll probably re-do that at some point when her other issue has cleared up.
He did ask us to ask the vets to forward any relevant history, but there is no relevant history. Its a non issue. I'll try and update with progress over the next few weeks and months though
 

HufflyPuffly

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I'd definitely do a blog on the follow up 'rehab' work, it would be good to track progress :).

It sounds similar to the plan given to me by my chiro vet and Skylla, and the changes in her were amazing to see and look back on!
 

Sprat

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Sounds positive Roxy, you'll have to let us know how you get on with the rehab work, and what impact it in turn has on the ridden work.

I've heard lots of good things about Tom, though as Bean is in fine fettle (for now - shouldn't jinx myself really) I've not considered using him. I think if I did have any concerns he would be a good shout, though I'm led to believe he is quite pricey.
 

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He was at my yard in Somerset a couple of weeks ago to see a friend's mare. I was going to see if he could fit in my mare who has defeated the vets but had to have my vets out to do some dental work so couldn't afford him the same week. I was gutted I couldn't go and see him work as my friend had invited me to watch but had to work and had a call so although at home that day couldn't go. I'd be really interested in reading any follow up.
 

Roxylola

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He was quite strict with only 1 person per horse due to covid at the moment so you might not have been able to watch anyway.
We attempted our walking pilates last night.
Supercob, like most cobs has a sense of humour, he often tries to nip your legs when you lead him. There's no malice he just sort of sneaks up behind and gets closer til you either move your leg at him or look at him. Hes never actually nipped its just a game to him I'm sure. So we walked round the yard while he did his collie impression behind me - i wasn't arguing as it kept his head low ? and periodically stopped for some backwards steps, after about the third time he was very much why am I doing this and offering his between knees carrot stretch in the hopes of a treat.
I've also messaged Dan Wain - who's recommended by Tom - about some more formal exercises we could do.
 

Sprat

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Dan Wain is a bit of a superstar I think. There is a connie at our yard who was desperately poorly around 2 years ago, he had a very rare form of meningitis and associated issues which thankfully he pulled through (I'm sure H&H did an article about him). The owner has worked extensively with Dan as the horse had severe muscle wastage from extended periods of box rest and hospitalisation, and he is doing wonderfully now. He's bright as a button and has totally changed the way he uses and holds himself for the better, all borne from a rehab programme that Dan put in place.

He does clinics fairly local to me, once normal life resumes I'll be attending a couple I think.
 

oldie48

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Really interesting and another who would appreciate a bit more info on your pilates walk, please. When you deal with a real pro who knows their job inside out, they see things that others just don't see. I won't jump on your thread but Rose had a check with a vet who specialises in lameness, I've never noticed Rose take a lame step but her work has stepped up a good deal and just very occasionally she looks a teeny bit uncomfortable for a couple of steps. It's so slight I'm never quite sure if I've seen it or not, S says she occasionally feels it too. I've debated if it's balance, resistance etc but decided to have her checked properly before pressing on. So glad I did, nothing major but vet saw it immediately!
 

Roxylola

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Really interesting and another who would appreciate a bit more info on your pilates walk, please. When you deal with a real pro who knows their job inside out, they see things that others just don't see. I won't jump on your thread but Rose had a check with a vet who specialises in lameness, I've never noticed Rose take a lame step but her work has stepped up a good deal and just very occasionally she looks a teeny bit uncomfortable for a couple of steps. It's so slight I'm never quite sure if I've seen it or not, S says she occasionally feels it too. I've debated if it's balance, resistance etc but decided to have her checked properly before pressing on. So glad I did, nothing major but vet saw it immediately!
Very much like Charlie, as we've asked more there has never been a lame step but he struggles to "push" so he just sort of loses his rhythm a bit in medium trot for instance, now this could be because he's finding hard and wants to offer canter, or it could be that its uncomfortable and he offers canter because it hurts a bit. I've watched video back and I can't see a single lame step, but...
Again with his age, mileage and type I'd be surprised if we have some arthritic changes a lameness work up might have blocked him out one side, shown lameness on the other as he's symmetrical and we'd have put it down to that. Hopefully this correction will help his push and he'll find it easier to work rather than just for instance putting him on something like boswellia and muddling on.
I think for minor not quite issues its better to go to specialists like that as they are well practised in spotting the little things
 

EnduroRider

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Interesting to read as we had our follow up with Tom yesterday after first seeing him in October. My boy has many of the same issues - dropped sacrum causing a rise in the lumbar in front, symmetrical tightness at the base of the neck, poll and hyoid which are all coming forwards as a result of the back end and free themselves off once that is treated. Tom said he was 50% improved on his first visit and symmetrical this time whereas he was previously crooked and bent around to his right side. Sounds a bit like we need to buddy up on the rehab tips!!!

Edited to add that Tom sought previous clinical history from my vet before he first saw us so does follow protocol on that front.
 
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Scotsbadboy

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This is such a fab thread, thanks OP. My new boy is 13 and 'wonky' (technical term of course!) and unlevel when stood square. We have been given massage and stretching techniques to do ready for our next visit and honestly i was looking at him last night and there really is a difference, for the better, from my efforts of daily stretching/ raised poles etc. I cant wait for my lady to come out on the 10th and hopefully confirm we are heading in the right direction. My farrier has also been onboard as the boy arrived with rather shocking feet which would not have helped his cause!

~A whole body/ holistic approach is key i think :)
 

SEL

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Dan Wain is a bit of a superstar I think. T

Dan has worked with horses for 2 of my friends now and is nothing short of a miracle worker! One stayed with him for about a month a couple of years ago and I popped over to watch him work with her (pre covid obviously). He has a lovely way with horses and such a sharp eye for when they aren't moving straight. He's firm with insisting they move correctly but the horses adore him so he is definitely hitting the right buttons.
 

Roxylola

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Sometimes I stand back and think I must look like I have more money than sense with what I plough in to what is essentially a rather bolshy family cob going for training etc with people like Andy Thomas and so on. Its not the case at all I'm permanently skint lol, but something Fran Turner said about Raf really struck a chord with me - its actually not the fancy pants purpose bred horses who _need_ the expensive girth etc - they're out scoring 8s and 9s without it, but for something that's having to work for for every mark a better girth (or whatever) might just give you half a mark more here and there and those halves add up.
I'm paraphrasing, and she was much more eloquent than me but the sentiment is there.
Obviously I'm keen to compete and develop but the sentiment stands for anybody really. And if we don't look at the whole picture we can't get all the information we need
 

Trouper

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So glad you found Tom Beech's visit useful. I am always recommending him on here.
In happier times, I think you could (for a small consideration) go and be a spectator at Dan Wain's clinics where I am sure you can learn a lot.
Will look forward to the updates!!
 

sbloom

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Sometimes I stand back and think I must look like I have more money than sense with what I plough in to what is essentially a rather bolshy family cob going for training etc with people like Andy Thomas and so on. Its not the case at all I'm permanently skint lol, but something Fran Turner said about Raf really struck a chord with me - its actually not the fancy pants purpose bred horses who _need_ the expensive girth etc - they're out scoring 8s and 9s without it, but for something that's having to work for for every mark a better girth (or whatever) might just give you half a mark more here and there and those halves add up.
I'm paraphrasing, and she was much more eloquent than me but the sentiment is there.
Obviously I'm keen to compete and develop but the sentiment stands for anybody really. And if we don't look at the whole picture we can't get all the information we need

I just think all horses deserve to be comfortable and happy in their bodies, minds and in their work. And so many really aren't. Including top competition horses that have everything money could buy, take a look at their bodies compared with horses that have been working with people like Manolo Mendez and Jean Luc Cornille.
 

oldie48

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I just think all horses deserve to be comfortable and happy in their bodies, minds and in their work. And so many really aren't. Including top competition horses that have everything money could buy, take a look at their bodies compared with horses that have been working with people like Manolo Mendez and Jean Luc Cornille.
Totally agree and they do tell us when they are not comfortable but often we just don't listen. I am beginning to realise that if we ignore the small signs, we end up dealing with so much more of a problem as horses are so adept at compensating. They change the way they move to avoid discomfort, causing more problems. They are very good at hiding pain probably because they are prey animals (not good to flag up that you might be a good target for a lion) and generally they want to comply with their rider's requests. I wish they could talk!!
 

Roxylola

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We had a quiet hack yesterday, mostly walk, long and low but to a contact and active. Certainly felt he was a bit more active and powerful most of the time. I periodically had to sort of engage him and sort of activate him a bit but for the most part I would say that he did feel more powerful. We had a brief trot, he had a little light bulb moment where he sort of went ooh, I can bronc from here... I squashed that idea quickly though and he was happy enough with that.
We will be pretty steady for a week or two now anyway as he's developed a little cough, not troubling as such but I see no point in pushing for harder work when we've nothing planned anyway at the moment
 

Roxylola

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A week on, hes had a very quiet week - not coughed again ? but its been frozen all week. And with work etc I can't get down in daylight (maybe a bit if I'm starting work at 9) and with the risk of ice I didn't want to hack in the dark.
Hes done some in hand work, including a shoulder in (go me)
I had some more stuff from Dan wain too - poles, shoulder in etc in hand, and similar ridden ideas- low but engaged and forward.
Yesterday the ground was good enough for a full field day so I didn't do anything.
This morning we hacked mostly walk, little trot. He feels like there is so much power there when he's low now, hes not on the forehand, hes really pushing from behind and it feels fabulous. I'm really having to keep a lid on myself not to ask him to use it to sit and push.
I'll keep updating here - hopefully we can get out and do a bit more this week
 
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