When to admit defeat and rehome your horse? Just cant cope any

[wakijaki]

Im just wondering if there is ever a right time to just admit defeat and give up with your horse?
I was always around horses and spent 3 years doing equine studies as a teen. Then had a long break (14 years) due to children. Started back last year on a friends yard with a 13.2 pony and a 17.2 idxtb, riding both of them out 5+ times a week and exercising the 3 others and taking care of the yard on my own on a day to day basis. It all got a bit much after 8 months and i decided to get my own as I would only have 1 to care for and more free time....i wasnt getting paid and i was being asked to do more and more and not getting any thanks for it.
So off i went on my own to view a 14.2 haflinger mare at a trekking center. She seemed like my perfect horse - sturdy, quiet, bombproof in traffic, easy to keep, used to novice and nervous riders.

I rode her out with the owner on a trek, through fields and back up the main road. There were a few little issues but nothing i didnt think i could handle. I decided to buy her after a weekend of thinking about it and a week later she was mine....with a sold as seen receipt.
I left her settle in for a few days and then hacked her out following my friends pony and she was good. Next day to took her for a short hack on our own and she was ok but needed lots of pushing.
Then I rode her in the field and asked her to canter and she bucked like crazy which really unnerved me. I didnt come off and did carrying on riding her for a while after but didnt try cantering again.
Then it just went from bad to worse. I tried hacking her again on our own and she napped, routed to the spot, refused to move and by the time i got to giving her a tap with the whip she was bucking in the road so i had to admit defeat and take her home.
She then got worse with all the little issues - tacking up was a battle, mounting was impossible unless i had someone to hold her as she would spin and cow kick, she wouldnt pick her feet up or would kick out. She would nap badly and buck if you told her off. She was very bargey and bolshy to handle on the ground and would pull or push you over and buck when leading her. She is very very strong.
I had everything checked on her - nothing wrong physically. The previous owner didnt want to know at all - said she was just having fun with me. I tried to send her back - even threatened to take her to court but she still didnt want to know. I have since found out she bucked children off there and has a long history of being passed from home to home with no one able to handle her.
I had a friend help me do natural horsemanship with her and things improved. i can now tack her up, mount her and pick up her feet. The leading is getting easier. She respects my space a lot more and I do feel more bonded with her. She always trots over to great me when I go to see her.
However - riding is still a nightmare - she naps and pulls and sticks her head up, spins and bucks. Refuses to go forward. Wont go anywhere at all on her own. She alternates between a crawl to jogging constantly. She refuses to go in front and if any horse goes behind her she kicks hell out of them. Now she is also petrified of traffic.
The last time I hacked her out she jumped in the middle of the road as a moped came behind her, bucked several times in the middle of the road trying to kick my friends horse and then bolted a few times when a lorry or a tractor came. This was inbetween several episodes of refusing to move at all.
I was never the best rider and im not confident. I was fine on my friends 17.2 id x tb as he was a huntmasters horse and a real gentleman who looked after his rider and was brilliant on the ground.
I seem to be stuck in the middle of everyone opinion - some saying get rid of her before she hurts me or someone else and others saying to keep her and carrying on working with her as who else would have her? And how amazing will it be when I prove everyone wrong and get 'there' with her?!
I dont have anyone experienced to come and ride her for me and i have no where to ride except hacking out. I went to see my friend the other day and burst into tears about it all as i had to admit things are getting worse and im totally out of my depth with her.
I know i wont get my money back for her but i just dont know what to do - If i did rehome her i would want her to have a good home as when she isnt being a total cow she is a very sweet and gentle pony.
All I wanted was a quiet horse to hack out and have fun with - as much progress we have made so far - I dont believe that will ever be her.
I am fed up with people giving me their opinions and yet Im the one who has to deal with her and I never know what she is going to do next. There is no magic button to turn her into the pony I thought I was buying...believe me - i have spent 6 months searching for it.
I hate to admit defeat and I would hate to see her go - but I also dont want to still be in the same place in a year or two years from now and still not be able to do anything with her while little by little she takes all my confidence.
So any advice...when do you know when its time to give in and walk away? And if I do rehome her what would be the best way to go about it? Thanks

 

[Zero00000]

How long have you owned her for OP?
What are you feeding her on and what is her routine?

Do YOU think you can move forward with her at all with extra help, or more improtantly are you willing to push forward?

 

[wakijaki]

Owned her for 6 months now. She lives out 24/7 on a friends farm with 2 ponies.
Doesnt get any feed as she is over weight as I have struggled to exercise her and she kept escaping the restricted grazing paddock. Has hay now its winter.
Have tried her on a magnesium supplement before but stopped after a month as it didnt make any difference and she started to refuse to eat it.
At this stage i honestly dont know...i feel like what ever progress I make she moves the goal posts. I couldnt ride because of all the tacking up and mounting issues - have spent months taking that all the way back to basics and now i cant ride as she is petrified of any traffic other than cars.
She doesnt have routine as such as I work split shifts but i check on her daily and groom her sometimes...not much with her living out as she isnt rugged. My friend whose parents own the farm where she is has done lots of natural horsemanship so has helped me a lot and also worked with her herself whenever she can but now she is starting full time work and wont be able to help - this also means that I am once again stuck with no one to ride out with and after I have tried leading her in hand only for her to bolt and get free when a lorry came along I cant even lead her out on my own just in case as I dont want her or anyone else getting hurt.

 

[Booboos]

Sadly it sounds like this is not the right horse for you. If you want to keep trying with her I would consider two things:

What exactly have you had checked out in terms of physical pain? Have you had her seen by a very experienced equine vet who can advise about possible lameness, back problems, ulcers, problems with her ovaries, check her eyes, etc.? There are quite a few physical problems that require quite a few tests to diagnose that could be causing her behaviour.

Do you have lessons with anyone? A good trainer can usually help in most situations. It may also be prudent to find a different yard with a school where you can work with her a bit and off road hacking so you can deal with her problems in a safer environment.

If you decide she's not the horse for you, you have to be realistic. This is a horse with multiple problems who has been passed along a number of homes - there is a reason for this and it's because no one has managed to get through to her. What are the chances that you will find the perfect home for her, someone who will put up with her problems or succeed in sorting them out? They seem small to me. It seems much more likely that you will give her away to either someone who will overestimate their abilities to turn her round and will pass her on when they discover her mistake, or someone who will dress her up and sell her on for a profit.

Finally you do have options with the woman who sold her to if she is a dealer. Have you contacted Trading Standards? Are you a member of the BHS for help with getting your money back?

 

[JennBags]

Sorry but I agree this is not the horse for you, you need to either try to send her back, or move her on. No you're probably not going to get any money back, but you will get your life & happiness & confidence back. You sound like you may have the sort of personality that people take advantage of, and some horses will too I'm afraid.

I remember your first posts about her, wasn't she in a trekking centre before? Are you a BHS Gold member? Their legal advice line is good.

 

[asmp]

You sound as though you are having a horrible time with her - please remember that having a horse is supposed to fun. It is a very expensive hobby in time and money if you are not enjoying her. Can you afford to lose the money you paid for her? If so there are plenty of other good horses out there. As the post above says though I'm not sure how you could move her on. Saying all that, my horse that I've now owned for 5 years scared me in the first year I had him - I used to dread riding him but he was never that dangerous, just a bit sharper than I was used to. Your horse is being dangerous on the roads and that would be a definite no for me - she would have to go.

 

[Kat]

Why not move her somewhere with more support and facilities and see if things improve. If you could ride in the school and lunge before riding that might help. As might having sensible company to hack with and experienced instructors on hand to help. If you have a GOOD riding school nearby working livery might be worth considering. If nothing else you might be able to get her a bit more saleable.

 

[Jesstickle]

I got rid of one after a lot of soul searching. It was 100% the right decision for me. There is no shame in admitting a horse is not for you (and on paper I should have been fine with mine but I just wasn't) and moving on.

I am having more fun with my current borrowed horse than I have had for years. It is meant to be fun, this is your hobby not your job. If you feel you want to get rid then do. Or just stop riding her and chuck her in the field and get something on loan which you can ride in the way you want to. Don't get yourself all worked up over it. It just isn't worth it. I promise it isn't.

I am usually a fairly sensible sort but I was having full on panic attacks over mine. Please don't let yourself get in to the state I did over it. It might seem there is no way out but there always is

 

[FestiveFuzz]

See my first thought is she's in pain be it back problems, ulcers or something else entirely. What checks did you have done?

If there really is nothing wrong with her medically I'd look to move to a yard with better facilities and have regular lessons with her to see if that improves the situation as it really does sound like you could do with some experienced help when it comes to riding her.

Only you know if you're willing to try and push through this or whether in your heart of hearts she's never going to be the one but in your shoes I'd give her another 6 months or so once moved so I knew 100% that I'd tried everything before passing her on again.

 

[webble]

Have you had any lessons on her? Done any schooling? Any in hand work etc? The day you first took her out on her own was probably scary for her if she had been in a trekking centre and always with others and if you didnt fill her with confidence she wont have seen you as the one in charge or felt like it was safe to keep going

Also has she had the usual back saddle teeth check?

 

[rach1]

To be honest it sounds like your horse isn't coping well adapting from being in the trekking centre.

One option, if you have the money and want to stick with her, is to send her to someone like Jason Webb who specialises in backing and problem horses. You sound like you've made great progress on the ground work, and it may be your horse needs to be retrained for being a one person hacking horse.

 

[Skib]

I am a riding school rider and your post reminded me of a nightmare hack when an advanced instructor accompanied me on a pony bought in from a trecking centre who deeply resented being ridden by a skilled and increasingly disciplinarian adult.
There is a great tendency to think that a horse from a trecking centre (as you say

sturdy, quiet, bombproof in traffic, easy to keep, used to novice and nervous riders.

will be problem free and to dismiss any doubts like my own.
A trail ride horse has usually been used to hacking in a nose to tail situation, with riders who are mostly content to leave decision making to the horse. And he knows his job which is to follow the horse in front, and to transition and stop following the cue from the horse ahead and not from the rider on his back. Horses used to teach beginners are often unused to being "ridden" at all.
Unless you really love the horse I wouldnt keep him - Even after years at a riding school, the ponies differ enormously one from another and my view is that the way they behave often reflects the use they were originally trained for - the ex-cross country pony will charge ahead full of excitement to be out in the open. The ex-show jumper will execute incredible transitions and spurts of speed. Give them credit. It was what was once asked of them. If you like what a riding school pony has, you can build on it.
But the ex trail ride horse, I deeply mistrust. I have been put at risk by battles of will between them and an assertive adult rider. Your horse might be of value still to a trail ride centre - and might be happier there unless there was some pre-existing problem prompting them to sell him?

 

[wakijaki]

hi thank you to you all for the replies. I will try and answer as best as I can.
Haven't had a vet out as some days she has been fine to ride as long as she is following others, has never been lame. Checks that have been done is usual back, tack and teeth. She has a new wider saddle than the one she came with. Also had one of my very experienced friends ride her in the field and she was ok but needed a firm hand, sadly this friend is now pregnant and no longer able to help.
Also with my other friends help I have ridden her in the field several times and she is fine except for being very strong with her head and refusing to move. We have been trying to unlock her by making it hard for her to stand still - ie backing up and turning rather than using a stick which she takes offence to and bucks. We have had some progress with this but it is very hard work!
As for being trekking trained - she was there 14 months and was out of work for most of that time due to her bucking children off while the owner tried to sell her on - and then along I came and yes - made all the novice mistakes. It was only when she was delivered and I got her pass port that I saw she had had 4 homes in as many years and alarm bells rang. I did ask about her previous homes and was told it was a mother and child share and they wanted something more forward going.
I got in touch with this mother and she said she sold her as she bucked and was too strong and she made the trekking center aware of this and the woman from the trekking center said she would train her as she is well known for taking in horses to train as she competes herself. After months of me telling her all my problems the only thing she would agree to was having her back to work with her for 2 weeks if I got her there myself - an 80 mile trip - when I said this wasnt good enough considering she had had her for 14 months and not been able to do anything with her she went to ignoring me.
Moving her isn't an option as I don't have any transport and there isn't any facilities like that around here I could use.
When her back was checked I was told there was nothing physically wrong - it was all attitude and bad behavior. She advised me to send her away for a few months to be retrained but I just can't afford to do that and obviously there's no guarantee she would be any better if the problem is her taking advantage of my lack of strength and experience and in the meantime I still wouldn't have a horse.
Lessons would be an option if I had somewhere to ride but the small paddock we sectioned off to use for Natural Horsemanship work is completely bogged and unsuitable.
As for returning her to the trekking center - yes I did get advise from the BHS legal team and they said I had a good case...but if the owner didn't respond I would have to take her to the small claims court - more expense and again no guarantee that I would get a good outcome as she could argue that its my fault the mare is being like that.
If I could find her the right home then yes I would be happy to lose the money I paid for her - but my worry is in this equine crisis we are in and horses being given away so much - who would want to take her on with all the issues she has? Also this would mean I would have to start again from scratch financially with saving for another horse although I have learned a lot along the way - like how not to buy a horse!

 

[JennBags]

I'm not quite sure whether you're just using this thread as a way to get it all off your chest (fine if you are) or whether you really are looking for advice. You had the option of returning her - you can always find someone to transport a horse, it doesn't matter where in the country you are. No point creating barriers when you can get over them.

These are your options most of which have been suggested above:
1) Keep the horse, keep working with it, possibly get yourself and/or others injured.
2) Put it out on retirement/grass livery and get something nice and less dominant to work with
3) Small Claims Court and try to return it
4) Put it on project horses for not a lot of money
5) Have it PTS

Noone else can make this decision for you; although I would strongly advise against no 1.

 

[wakijaki]

Lots of Gift Bags _ I probably am needing to get it off my chest! But I am looking for advise from outsiders - the people I know are all offering me advise left right and center but they dont see or know what I go through with her. It has got to the point where I dread going to see her some days. I know no horse is perfect but I also know it doesn't have to be this hard - it should be fun and enjoyable. My friend where the horse lives is always encouraging me to keep trying and my other friend just says get rid of her and get something else.
I have just kept hoping that things would get better and she would learn to trust me and be calm and relaxed but its just hard every day when everything is a battle.
I guess I will have to decide if I just want to try to get my money back and maybe see if the small claims option is still open - but i thought that had to be within 6 months? Or find her a companion / project home and cut all my losses.

 

[wakijaki]

Also - to be clear - there hasnt been the option of returning her - all the previous owner offered was to train her for 2 weeks...which considering she had had her for 14 months and not been able to make a difference to her then I didnt have any confidence in her ability's as a horse trainer to go to the expense of hiring a box and someone to take her there. I also have another friend who went to view a horse there and it reared up with her and the woman dismissed it as being excited - so she wasnt the sort of person you would trust to be any good at making a difference. Also I had no reason at all to trust her after she has treated me so badly by dismissing all the issues everytime I contacted her.

 

[asmp]

Hard though it may be I would personally follow 4 or 5 of Lotsofgivebags options above. Move on - if finances are tight in buying a new one, find one for loan. As your confidence has taken a knock, see if you can get an elderly one who is happy to hack out on its own. An oldie would could still give you lots of fun. It's a personal thing but I have, over the years, found geldings much easier to own than mares.

 

[Booboos]

The Small Claims court is very cheap, I think it's about 50 quid to file a claim. I suspect the dealer may capitulate and take her back before then. Have you sent a recorded delivery letter informing her that the horse is unfit for purpose and you want to return for a refund?

When you say her back is fine but the vet has not seen her, who told you this? If the cause of her problems is physical there are loads of possibilities and only a vet can exclude them.

If you can't move yards and can't have lessons I don't see what other options are left to you. Put his horse on retirement livery and don't consider buying another one until you can afford things like paying for transport between yards, lessons and vet visits. Sorry to be so blunt but what other option do you have?

 

[Kat]

Why not post your area and see if anyone has any suggestions. It maybe that there is a decent equestrian centre that would take her on loan or working livery and see if they can get her working in their set up. From there you could either permanently loan her or sell her to them or ride with their help. I know of horses that have benefited from this kind of set up and if it doesn't work then you have lost very little.

Alternatively people may know someone local who might be able to help you out.

I don't think her problems sound insurmountable but I think you need experienced help and the facilities to enable you to work her regularly and consistently.

 

[Holding]

Poor mare, and poor you.

First off, please please have a vet look at her. Very few horses are tw*ts for no reason, and there could easily be underlying issues that your back person hasn't picked up on. If she is insured, I would be tempted to ask your vet to refer her straight to Newmarket (or an equine hospital near you) where they can do full tests. If there is something seriously wrong with her then your decision is made for you, and you can have her PTS knowing you did your very best for her. If not then you can crack on with her work knowing that it is purely a behavioural problem.

How experienced are you? Is there any chance of moving to a yard with a school and a bit more support? If not, the most sensible course of action would be to pay somebody else to school her for you (expensive) or put her out on loan/find her a new home (potentially risky). But first, please rule out any physical issues. I couldn't put a horse down, let alone give it away, if I hadn't first made sure that there was nothing physically wrong with it.

(Also, if you are near me in Essex let me know - I might be able to recommend people)

Good luck!

 

[Loubidy]

Cut your losses and get her up for sale! Your just going to end up more and more down about the situation. She probably does just need an experienced rider with the confidence to push her one. There are lots of easy horses out there going cheap, if you're not in a hurry you could find quite a gem.

 

[Booboos]

Cut your losses and get her up for sale! Your just going to end up more and more down about the situation. She probably does just need an experienced rider with the confidence to push her one. There are lots of easy horses out there going cheap, if you're not in a hurry you could find quite a gem.

More experienced than a dealer who specialises in problem horses who's had her for 14 months and couldn't get anywhere with her? A home other than the 4 she's had in the last year?

I am very sorry for the OP who's been had by this unscrupulous seller, but passing on the problem to the next poor owner is not the solution. If the OP doesn't have the resources to investigate this further she should retire the mare or failing that PTS.

 

[wakijaki]

Hi
first off...as I said I havent had the vet out because some days she is more than happy to follow a friends horse out on a hack for a couple of hours and we have been the beach and even had a buckless canter or too. She will move if pushed but I have been trying to do this without using a whip with her as that causes her to buck. I honestly believe there is nothing physically wrong with her. It all depends on her moods and and as stated again - the issues with the napping and bucking happen even when i lead her and is down to her just not liking being made to do anything and not liking being on her own. This fear of traffic is a new thing and I think that is down to her not trusting me to keep her safe and the more she bolts, bucks and naps the worse my confidence gets so the less she trusts me.
Also as for the so called dealer/trainer I bought her off - i have since heard many horror stories and infact she had another hafflinger mare there with mine and she was returned for the same reasons and then sold on again to a girl who doesn't ride her and can only do ground work with her. This is why i didnt see the point in her going back to her former home for more training. All the seller was interested in is selling her and then turned her back on me....Any good person would of at least come to see what she was like and listened to my complaints

 

[TrasaM]

Hi wakijaki . I remember your earlier thread. Really sorry that you've not made any progress with your horse. I can fully understand the dilemma you are in. Sorry can't offer any advice but it sounds like you've had more than enough of that anyhow
Maybe as previous poster suggested, say which area you are in and see if anyone wants to help you. Keep yer chin up.

 

[Booboos]

Hi
first off...as I said I havent had the vet out because some days she is more than happy to follow a friends horse out on a hack for a couple of hours and we have been the beach and even had a buckless canter or too. She will move if pushed but I have been trying to do this without using a whip with her as that causes her to buck. I honestly believe there is nothing physically wrong with her. It all depends on her moods and and as stated again - the issues with the napping and bucking happen even when i lead her and is down to her just not liking being made to do anything and not liking being on her own. This fear of traffic is a new thing and I think that is down to her not trusting me to keep her safe and the more she bolts, bucks and naps the worse my confidence gets so the less she trusts me.
Also as for the so called dealer/trainer I bought her off - i have since heard many horror stories and infact she had another hafflinger mare there with mine and she was returned for the same reasons and then sold on again to a girl who doesn't ride her and can only do ground work with her. This is why i didnt see the point in her going back to her former home for more training. All the seller was interested in is selling her and then turned her back on me....Any good person would of at least come to see what she was like and listened to my complaints

Come on OP these are just excuses. Plenty of horses tolerate some level of pain until pushed in a situation out of their comfort, be it hacking alone or going to a competition or whatever, and then the problems arise. Plenty of conditions are intermitent also; if she has a flair up of ulcers or if she has ovarian cysts she'll be affected differently at different times of the month, etc. You can't just conclude that there is nothing physically wrong with her. If you are serious about dealing with her problems you need to start with the vet.

I can understand you saying that you don't want to throw good money after bad but simply insisting that there is nothing physically wrong with her is silly.

Yes the dealer is a probably a con artist. Doesn't mean you can't get your money back though. Instead of relying on her good nature, which she has none, obtain formal advice (BHS, Trading Standards) and take it from there. Or give up on the money you paid and deal with what you want to do with the mare now that you have her and cannot return her for a refund.

 

[webble]

Not read all replies so sorry if this has been mentioned but has the vet seen her? Have you tried a bute trial? Done hormone tests? checked for ulcers?

 

[Damnation]

I had a problem mare. Nightmare to handle, bad manners, nappy and bucked. I had usual checks done, told that I have just a dominant mare so I persevered. She was fine on the ground but napped and bucked for a pastime if pushed out of her comfort zone under saddle. I spent alot of money with last vets trying to find what was wrong with her. Moved to a new area, new vet, low and behold a slipped disk in her back and she was pts after 3 and a half years of me putting her behaviour down to being dominant.
Get a good vet out.

 

[AdorableAlice]

There is only one mistake been made. The pairing of a novice owner and a haflinger. I am prepared for the criticism but the breed is not suitable for novices. They are highly intelligent horses, more then ready to use their intelligence against you and can be really rotten horses in the wrong hands.

OP, don't waste your money on endless health tests, dump it and get somebody knowledgeable to help you source a horse you can enjoy, not get hurt by and look forward to spending time with.

 

[Goldenstar]

I read this thread earlier and went away and thought about .
OP having a horse is supposed to be fun and while I would be the last person to not try lots of things with a difficult horse your unhappiness with the situation is clear .
In this situation I think you should move on as soon as you arrange it this does sound like the right horse for you .
Learn form This experiance and choose carefully next time , take an experianced person with you , buy a horse that's been doing the job you want it to do and get a five stage vetting.
If you have insurance I would consider getting a vets opinion if not I would cut my loses as soon as you can .

 

[mightymammoth]

awful situation really feel for you, can you not send her away to be rebacked? I would think seriously about having her euthanaised if you feel you've exhausted other options.

I would hate to think she could end up being passed from pillar to post and end up with some bin end dealer or going through the ring at market.