When to back properly?

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Lill

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I know i've asked this before, some months ago!

But there are some new people on here now i see, and i would like some opinons :)

Merlin is now coming up for 3 1/2yo. For those of you who don't know/can't remember ;) he's a Welsh D (Babylon lines). He's a very sensible baby, and so far has not been phased by anything really?

But to me he doesn't look like he's near fully grown yet, he measures 14.3hh at his withers now but his bum is still a little higher and he looks to have a fair bit of filling out to do.

So i am not sure whether to maybe sit on him end of September/October and turn him away over winter until maybe March/April?

Or whether to just wait until March/April anyway when he will be nearly 4yo?
 
If he still looks like he's growing (bum high) i would certainly wait - maybe just do everything up to putting a saddle on and lot of walking out with it, stuff like that. It's not worth doing it too early imho.

Pics please :D sm x
 
I have a welsh cob too - had her since she was a foal. I didn't back her until her fourth year, because like your lad, she just didn't look ready at 3! I did lots of longlining and inhand stuff instead, so when we finally got to actually getting on board it was a huge anticlimax.

Oh, and re the filling out? Kira only finished filling out this year, and she's now 6!
 
How much have you done with him? Eg has he worn a saddle? is he used to things like stirrups flapping by his side? etc...
You'll know when the time is right for you to get on. I didnt back my pony until she was 5 as i dint feel she was ready before. I spent months doing ground work, walking out and wearing tack, and when i did finally back her she was a dream and wasnt phased by anything.
I'm now currently working on my two year old doing all the groundwork again, I have the intension of sitting on her next year then turning away for the winter, but that does depend on how much she matures over the next year. if she's not ready i'm in no rush.
So basically what i'm trying to say is if you have any doubt give him that little bit more time and carry on, on the ground.

C-M
 
Seriously? People in the UK don't back their foals 'til they're 4 or even 5 years old???

I would expect a quarter horse to be carrying some weight in the form of tack, possible sand bag by 2.5 yrs latest. Riding by 3.5 yrs latest. Or is this a breed issue where cob's take longer to mature?
 
I would definatley wait. If they don't look ready don't do it.
Imo the steadier you take the backing process the longer your horse will perform for, people who rush it normally run into problems which could have been prevented. Like I said just my opinion.
 
I back mine when they look ready. Most of them are done in the spring of their third year. We get them to the point where they can walk and trot in the school with a rider and walk around one of our fields with a companion. We then turn them away until the spring of the fourth year.

However we backed one in the winter of his second year as he was build like a brick 5h1t house but another we didn't do until he was 5 as he looked weak.

Being bum high is not a complete indicator of their maturity. I have a warmblood who is still bum high at 6 although a couple of months ago he was pretty level but has had a sneaky growth spurt.
 
It is a really individual thing. If they still look 'baby' them I would be enclined to give them time. In a 'prefect' world, I would have them sat on and walking and trotting away from the leg at 3, then turn them out and bring them back into work properly as a 4 yr old. But they dont always fit into that time scheme.

If your doesnt look ready now, he probably isn't. But I'd get him up to the point of saddle on and long reining. I find that the more long reining you do the easier the horse will be to break and the better the horse you have at the end. So I would focus on the ground work untill he is a little older. But young horses do literally grow up overnight sometimes so keep re-assesing him.
 
MosMum said:
Seriously? People in the UK don't back their foals 'til they're 4 or even 5 years old???

I would expect a quarter horse to be carrying some weight in the form of tack, possible sand bag by 2.5 yrs latest. Riding by 3.5 yrs latest. Or is this a breed issue where cob's take longer to mature?
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Welcome to the UK MosMum. You will find a lot of americans severely looked down upon for the early age they ride their youngsters. It is the norm not to start backing til about 3/3.5 possibly later here, and not really to start ridden work til 4. Horses here cannot be ridden til 4 competatively.

The horse world here is very very different to there.

To the OP - I've never backed so am no judge, but your welsh cob will not finish maturing til 6 at the earliest, possibly even 8. Like all the native breeds, they take time to grow and bulk out.
 
I have just backed and hacked my 2 three year olds, having done plenty of ground work as 2 year olds, then again as 3 year old before sitting on them. One was very good but he was quite excitable as a 2 year old but had settled down as a 3 year old, the other was very laid back about everything done on the ground but was quite nervous about having a rider on board but has now settled so they have now been turned out until next spring.
 
MissSBird said:
Welcome to the UK MosMum. You will find a lot of americans severely looked down upon for the early age they ride their youngsters. It is the norm not to start backing til about 3/3.5 possibly later here, and not really to start ridden work til 4. Horses here cannot be ridden til 4 competatively.

The horse world here is very very different to there.
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Thanks for the heads up. I wouldn't really suggest riding competatively at a young age anyway but basic backing... I guess it is a very different culture :) I don't think most cattle ranchers in Montana would stay in business if they had to feed their horses for 4 years or more before getting some work out of them, though. I guess that is difference between having a pet and having an animal who must fulfill a job in order for the ranch to succeed.

Some people on here seem to have been doing horses for a very long time, based on comparitively limited experience (4 yrs of working horses in Montana), I have never seen a young QH injured or pts etc by being broken at 2-3 years of age, again that is probably relatively limited experience.

Did not intend to upset or offend, my apologies if I did, was just very surprised by the numbers being thrown around! I in no way meant to imply those opinions were wrong. :)
 
MosMum,

In the UK competitions start for ridden 4 year olds. In Europe, they have ridden 3 year old classes. I had a friend who lived in Texas, and she rode her 2 year old QH and TWH. She thought we were very foolish to wait so long to ride horses.

There are plenty of english people who now start their horses earlier, if you want a dressage horse to perform well in the 4 year old classes, don't believe people aren't doing a lot with them at 3. It all depends on the individual animal and whether the producers are professional or amateurs.
 
MosMum said:
Thanks for the heads up. I wouldn't really suggest riding competatively at a young age anyway but basic backing... I guess it is a very different culture :) I don't think most cattle ranchers in Montana would stay in business if they had to feed their horses for 4 years or more before getting some work out of them, though. I guess that is difference between having a pet and having an animal who must fulfill a job in order for the ranch to succeed.

Some people on here seem to have been doing horses for a very long time, based on comparitively limited experience (4 yrs of working horses in Montana), I have never seen a young QH injured or pts etc by being broken at 2-3 years of age, again that is probably relatively limited experience.

Did not intend to upset or offend, my apologies if I did, was just very surprised by the numbers being thrown around! I in no way meant to imply those opinions were wrong. :)
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No offence taken by me at all. I had the exact opposite experience - when I went to visit a friend in Colorado and found someone cantering a 2 year old around. Gave me the shock of my life.

I think QHs are a breed unto themselves. We don't have anything like them here. Having galloped them on ground I wouldn't have trotted on here, and seen their perfectly clean legs despite this treatment, I think they are quite something in the horse world.
 
We backed my now 3 1/2 year old late last year, literally long reined in straight lines and change of reins, halt etc. then a lightweight professional sat on him and rode hime around for two days, through the yard, past the dogs, out of the gate etc. He is coming back this week to do some more (in the meantime I have done some very large circles long reining and introduced trot). He is pure ID and I think that will be OK eg if he hacks out 2 or 3 times then I will probably turn him away again until the spring unless a miracle happens and a lightweight, experienced rider appears and offers to do it for free!
 
MosMum said:
Thanks for the heads up. I wouldn't really suggest riding competatively at a young age anyway but basic backing... I guess it is a very different culture :) I don't think most cattle ranchers in Montana would stay in business if they had to feed their horses for 4 years or more before getting some work out of them, though. I guess that is difference between having a pet and having an animal who must fulfill a job in order for the ranch to succeed.

Some people on here seem to have been doing horses for a very long time, based on comparitively limited experience (4 yrs of working horses in Montana), I have never seen a young QH injured or pts etc by being broken at 2-3 years of age, again that is probably relatively limited experience.

Did not intend to upset or offend, my apologies if I did, was just very surprised by the numbers being thrown around! I in no way meant to imply those opinions were wrong. :)
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I think its less that people are worried a 2/3yr old will be injured at that time as its backed, but that if its started to be worked hard before its fully developed it increases the probability of it suffering complications later in life IYSWIM?

For example, one of my friends' horse was jumped competively at heights over 1m when she was only 3/4 years old (not by my friend) in France. Said horse, who's now 12( (I think...something around that , can't remember off the top of my head!) is currently on boxrest for the next month as she just had to have an op to get her suspensory ligaments cut due to persistent lameness. At the same time the vets diagnosed osteoarthritis, probably due to being worked too hard too soon. In comparison, my horse, who wasn't backed till she was 13 (late even by UK standards!) is still going strong at 17.5 (and hopefully will be good for many years to come!)
 
missbird, thanks, I'm glad to know someone who's had a similiar shock! Yes QH really are something and tbh some of the horses here look put together wrong to me LOL To me, from a young age, a QH is what a horse was. We did have an arab x at one point but it was soon sold on as unsuitable for cattle work not as steady on its feet on the mountain fields.

Stacey- ah, I see what you mean and quite possibly you are right since cattle horses tend to retire before they hit 15 yrs and become companions or pleasure horses. I don't necessarily think its right or wrong to break them young and work them hard, I think its a cultural issue and in some places it is just necessary. I can say I never saw someone punch a horse in the gut for misbehaving until I visited a friend in Swansea and her neighbor was 'backing' a horse! Clearly there is good and bad everywhere, as equally I have seen the rodeo foals rounded up and sold off at a matter of weeks old.
 
Pssst he's a Welsh D (Cob) :)


He's had a roller and a saddle on, but i haven't attached stirrups to it yet maybe that shall be next then.

I have leant over him whilst standing on something, and then let him have my full weight for a second or two and he just tries to turn around to look at me to see what i'm doing!

He still looks a bit 'baby' to me, but not to my friend.... but then her horse is only 14.3hh so i guess Merlin is already the same height! :)
 
I think it's down to the individual and as to what they feel is correct. My filly is 2 and she was rollered, lunged (gasp!) and long reined etc as a yearling and this year she's been sat on and hacked around the farm. She's TB x Paint and handles it all well mentally and physically. My other horse who's 19 incidentally, I broke him as a yearling and he was in full work and galloping as a 2yr old. Didn't run until he was older as we decided to send him chasing as he was too slow for the flat. He's as sound as a pound and has been a really good work horse and still hunts and is used as a lead horse for the yearlings and horses out of training now! He stands just under 17HH and hasn't felt the ill effects of being broken and having a hard life early on. I am a believer in some work at a young age helps to strengthen bone and there seem to be less injuries across the board when this theory has been put to the test. I am refering to racehorses here, not sure if anything has been done on competition horses. Very interesting topic hearing everyone's views.
 
I am a believer in some work at a young age helps to strengthen bone and there seem to be less injuries across the board when this theory has been put to the test. I am refering to racehorses here, not sure if anything has been done on competition horses. Very interesting topic hearing everyone's views.
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Bone does strengthen in response to use, this is a fact. However being turned out in a paddock or working in-hand is enough. You would have to put your foal in a veal crate to stop the bone being strengthened through use, ridden work is not necessarry for this process.

Please read the link (especially page 6) in my first post on this thread. The breed of the horse makes no difference at all to the skeletal maturing rate.

I'm really glad that your horse is still sound but I have known alot of ex-racehorses that are knackered due to too much too young and alot of warmbloods with bad joints (too much jumping too young?) or ligament problems.

I was once told that on average waiting one year at the start of a horse's ridden career adds on average, five years of soundness at the end of it's ridden career.

I would love a proper scientific study to be done on this issue but you would need hundreds of twin horses (or clones) and about thirty years to do it properly! Until this happens I will back my own youngsters when I think they are ready and let others do the same with their horses. :)
 
Although it is true about bone structure Faracat I think it depends very much on the breed. I think some breeds are still very 'baby' at 3, like Irish Draughts that are mentally and physically immature, meanwhile some 3 year old Welsh section A's for instance are a lot more grown up in the head. I think it all depends on the indivdual, like how mentally mature they are, and how strong they are. If they are weak then I would give them time. My ID was backed as 3yr old, but I had to sell her, and its easierto sell a horse backed. She is now sold and turned away, which I think suits most horses. Personally I think 4 year old classes can be a bit sharp on a lot of horses, maybe not so much showing ones, but maybe eventing/showjumping ones. By 5 I would expect horses to start competing. As a business thing, I can see why horses are backed earlier and competed, they don't make money standing in a field! But on the continent warmbloods have done that much by the time they are 4 they are knackered by 8!
 
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