When to castrate and what should I expect ?

[zandp]

I have a 6 month old whippet/lab dog who is beginning to hump his bed, he's not displaying any aggressive signs and doesn't try and mark territory or anything.

I am planning to have him castrated at some point but was wondering if I could have advice/opinions on the best time / age ?

Vet said from 6 months was ok but will there be any impact on his growth / size / weight if I do have it done now ? I was hoping to wait until he was around 1 as he'd be more mature size then.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I would wait until he is at least a year old, if he takes after the Lab side I would even wait a bit longer. My Dobes have all been neutered from 18months -2 years to allow them to mature.

 

[POLLDARK]

With that unaggressive type breeding why would you neuter him ? With a dog proof garden & a dog being under control on walks it's not needed. There is always a risk with any op & then there is the weight problems that follow neutering.

 

[Clodagh]

I'm sorry polldark but that is such rubbish! Dogs only get fat after neutering if they are allowed to. Why let them get stressed with the hormones saying 'SEX' and the owner saying not...poor dog. Bed humping is surely a sign of frustration?
(Sorry, OP, but there is no need for your dog to get fat after being done, none of ours have put on an ounce.)

 

[Umbongo]

Agree with Clodagh. If he is already humping then he is already showing signs of frustration. IMO unless your entire male will be regularly mating then it is unfair for the dog.

If he is already started humping things then I would think about doing it soon.

 

[CorvusCorax]

My old dog remained a rake after neutering.

 

[Dexter]

sight hounds are very sensitive to anaesthetics. They recommend leaving them to 18months. My boy is very close to being pure bred whippet. At about 10months old he went through a humping stage. People, objects etc. He was given a "special teddy" Mr Humpy, and trained not to hump anything else. Hes 18 months old now and only ever humps if he is stressed or anxious, so almost never. He wont be neutered. I'm confident I can prevent accidentally breeding and for me personally, there are far more down sides to neutering a male dog that there are reasons to do it

Edited to add: Mr Humpy hasnt been used since he was about a year old now

 

[Luci07]

Labs can be aggressive! I very much disagree with the statement that they are not. A good friend had her dogue de Bordeaux savaged to death by a lab, my brother has only been bitten by one dog which was a lab etc etc and I can quote a lot more examples. Any dog, who is poorly trained can be vicious and the view that certain breeds are more or less prone is lazy. I like labs but they need training, not the assumption that they are automatically well behaved

Castration may not stop the humping though do bear that in mind!

 

[Rebels]

My boy was done at 6 months as we have several footpaths across our land and I wanted no accidents as he is free ranging. He is a terrier. The differences I have noticed have been minor, he needs a little less food and is a little more chilled out. As the testosterone was making itself felt he was becoming a little stressed out and anxious. That has gone and he is a happy person who meets a lot of new dogs and still wants to play with everything. It has also calmed down our un neutered older dog (my brother objected so we have a stressed out, dog aggressive retriever).
I did try and discuss the best age with the vet but they paid no attention and brushed me off so I decided earlier was best. We also lost a Goldie to a cancer and were told being un neutered hadn't helped.

 

[Boulty]

As he's likely to be a fair sized boy if he takes after the lab in him then I would personally leave him until he's around a year old so that he's physically matured however if you feel the humping is turning into a problem then if your vet is happy there's no real massive reason he couldn't be done from now. Be warned that if there is a behavioral element there as well then you may have to do some training with him as well to fully break the habit.

After he's had the op you will need to watch his food intake more as he will have a lower calorie requirement and so will be more prone to putting on weight. He'll likely be a bit dopey when you bring him home afterwards and maybe the next day but after that you'll probably have more trouble keeping him rested than anything else

 

[Cedars]

God we clearly got very lucky, Bracken still has his knackers, he's now 2 but never humped a thing in his life. Lucky us!

We were told if we were going to neuter to do it around 18months - but he's a big lab.

 

[horseperson]

I had my oes x neutered at 6 months old, he's now 10yrs old and is the most chilled out dog I know

 

[Echo24]

Once your dog starts to cock their leg, that's usually a good time to neuter. Obviously if they become more dog distracted, more boisterous, usually signs hormones are taking over.

You will need to manage their weight once their neutered. As the dog won't have testosterone pumping through their bodies, they're not so wired and as a result will not burn as much energy. It's your responsibility to monitor their weight and adjust feed accordingly. Plus they'll be resting when castrated and as they're getting out less, will pile on the pounds!

 

[Dizzydancer]

My entire 18month old lab went through a humping phase from about 6-8months due to breed we wanted to wait to have him done. He grew out of it and doesn't hump anything now. Its perfectly possible to keep a dog entire but not hump or mate if trained and under control.
Where we train they have dogs for breeding who can be in same area as in season bitch but not want to breed.
In your shoes i would try and stop it anytime i see the humping, and also wait until at least 1 to allow for maturity or you can have other issues.

 

[noodle_]

mine was done bang on 6 months!...

not affected him in the slightest!!

he humped everything that stood still for longer tha 2 seconds lol!! my poor girl (spayed) had enough of him so nuts off -= = = peaceful household!!

 

[zandp]

Thanks everyone for your responses/experiences etc. I'm still confused, I think if he gets worse he'll be in the vets straight away but at the moment he doesn't hump every day and did only start it last week so it's not been going on for ever and it is only on this bean bag bed he has. He's around 2 bitches most of the weekend and hasn't tried it with either of them - another woman at the yard brings them down - the 3 of them spend their time playing/chasing/exploring.

He does stop when I tell him too, not so much when my OH does but then he doesn't really obey him 100% - I've done the training so far.

Dizzydancer- what are the other issues I could have ?

 

[Dizzle]

I had my Border Terrier done at 8 months old, I didn't have a 'plan' of ‘if or when’ it was going to happen but as he isn't KC registered despite having the most divine temperament I didn't really want to breed from him. I was happy to wait until 12 months old.

Until he started erm, well, putting things in his mouth that himself most men would require rib removal before they could undertake and leaving wet patches on the furniture. He wasn't bored or anything, he just realised it was quite nice.

So off they came!

He went into the surgery in the morning, came out in the evening, was bright as a button in the excitements of the vets and as soon as he was at home he stood in the doorway with his cone on trying to sleep standing up. Next morning he was back to normal, I think we only walked with the lead on for a week or so until the 2nd check up but he was leaping about in typical terrier fashion within 24 hours.

He’s 15 months old now and at his last vet check up the vet said he was a good weight and a very nicely muscled dog, we don’t do HUGE amounts of exercise but he’s very active, I still feed twice a day so not sure if this helps or not.

ETA: He did hump a bit but not much it was more the oral thing that was the issue, he's never shown signs of agression either and his temprament didn't change radically after the op.

 

[CorvusCorax]

If he is going to have contact at the yard with entire bitches then I would definitely have him done...if they are off chasing and exploring, the deed can happen.

And totally agree about the 'non aggressive' point, not saying anything about your dog OP but it is narrow to think no Lab or Whippet would have the potential to be aggressive.

 

[CAYLA]

Once your dog starts to cock their leg, that's usually a good time to neuter. Obviously if they become more dog distracted, more boisterous, usually signs hormones are taking over.

You will need to manage their weight once their neutered. As the dog won't have testosterone pumping through their bodies, they're not so wired and as a result will not burn as much energy. It's your responsibility to monitor their weight and adjust feed accordingly. Plus they'll be resting when castrated and as they're getting out less, will pile on the pounds!

As above^^^ it always makes me laugh when lazy dog owners blame castration or spay for weight gain, it's because they are still filling the dogs gob full of mass portions of food and not allowing the dog to exercise as they should I have 10 dogs, all under what their ideal weight should be (I wonder why??) maybe it's magic
I also don't get the logic of (keep them on its cruel to castrate) it's far more cruel to have the gear and not beable to use it and as a result become frustrated.
I also love it when people with entire dogs that who are literally trying to hump the living day lights out of everthing walking say "oh, he just wants to be friends" I feel like saying "don't be so thick, he is sexually charged and any minute now a pissed off dog is gonna take it's head off" and then what do you know (its actually does) or I hear later the dog had to be stitched up as it tried to mount the wrong dog I love it when my dogs let others know they aint going to be humping them (if they did not), I give them a swift boot in the rib cage) as in the serial humper (not mine) not fair on the dog really but then if the owner is a brain dead twit who loves having a horny dogs with hanging bolloks then tuff!!

Infact maybe not so funny but I knew a lady with a rampid bedlington and she would laugh to her heart content about him shagging things, and he was attacked by a staffy dog not to impressed with him gripping on and mounting him, the dog was killed sadly (stupid bloody woman).

Obs you do see well trained dogs will bolloks thats don't pester but more than often they do.

 

[CAYLA]

If he is going to have contact at the yard with entire bitches then I would definitely have him done...if they are off chasing and exploring, the deed can happen.

And totally agree about the 'non aggressive' point, not saying anything about your dog OP but it is narrow to think no Lab or Whippet would have the potential to be aggressive.

^^ that too, I have met some really aggressive labradors, not so many whippets, but have dealt with 2 nasty little snappy whippets, but the labs where real pieces of work sadly.

Ps, just to add, expect nothing, swollen sacks for a few days, don't let him lick them otherwise they will becomes huge and infected so buster collar, then afterwards you may see him calm down slightly if he is highly strung, gradually become less sexually interested and may have to reduce food and keep up the exercise as you are.

 

[TarrSteps]

I had my lurcher done at 8 months. We walk in busy areas, with lots of dogs and distractions, and even if the rescue had not required it, I didn't think the dog needed yet another pressure. I'm damn glad I did it, too, as he was a stroppy teenager and not always spot on with his recall if he saw rabbits etc. It's all very well to say you'll never lose control of your dog but hormones are a big drive and it only takes a moment for a dog, especially a pointy one, to be gone.

My younger dog is whippet x lab and, if anything, she's sharper than the working lurcher!

As to labs not having 'control issues'. . . Entire labs are very common, it seems, in my neck of the woods or maybe I just think that because we seem to to have disproportionate problems with them being randy! I meet a woman with a lovely male who has been adamant she would not have him cut despite the fact he looses all sense when he even sniffs a bitch, fixed or not. She always looks massively stressed when I see her and I laughed last week when she said he was in for the chop the next day. Obviously all dogs are different - I know entire dogs who never give a day of trouble, but I still think people are so casual about neutering vs spaying only because they won't end up with the unwanted puppies!

 

[gunnergundog]

OK...puppies experience two, maybe three testosterone surges in their lives, depending on who you read. The first is in-utero and the final one is at adolescence; how many months of age that is depends on the size/breed of the dog.

During this final surge the levels of testosterone will be increased by 300-400% of the prior level. At this stage most dogs will not know how to handle the feelings in their bodies and start to exhibit 'different' behaviour - be that humping, becoming more aggressive or reactive or whatever. This surge in testosterone lasts ONLY c4-6 months max, after which it drops down to what will be the final, normal adult level of testosterone in the dog; this level is higher than the pre-adolescent level, but is way way closer to it than what the dog experiences during adolescence.

So many people castrate their dogs at the first sign of humping in adolescence; this is not the dog that they will end up with if they give the dog time for the testosterone levels to subside AND start some commonsense training!

If you allow the dog to hump away during adolescence and then castrate, you are unlikely to see any change in behaviour as it will have become a LEARNT behaviour for that dog.

If you want to read up on this try Aggressive Behaviour in Dogs ( James O'Heare, 2006), An Owners Guide to a healthy, happy pet (Ian Dunbar, 1999). Neilsen, Hart & Eckstein were the leaders in the empirical research in this area in the 90's so you can probably find more by googling them if you so wish.

 

[zandp]

Thanks for the reading suggestions, very helpful. I'm off to educate myself.

I lost my temper with a dog walker on Friday, his bitch was in the park off lead and came running straight up to my pup and squirted at him. Her owner called out to say she was in mid season - he got a load of expletives about why he didn't have her on the lead then, that my dog hadn't been done and he needed to be responsible. He said he was in the park early to avoid any dogs, he was out of luck, as I was one of 3 owners in there with dogs. Poor bitch got a lot of hassle from the other dogs until he put the lead on and took her away. My pup stood there looking a bit confused and came to call straight away, so I put him on the lead and we finished our walk elsewhere.

 

[sandymere]

Some sensible info here
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/PAV045web.pdf

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

 

[Alec Swan]

I've never quite understood those who castrate without obvious need, and do so when a dog is under the age of two years, and then say that it made absolutely no difference to the dog. How do they know? How do they know how the dog would have developed, had he kept his nadgers?

As another said, 6 month old youngsters which show very early signs of sexual maturity (which they cannot possibly have reached), are going through a growth stage, and one which they will pass through.

There's an alarmingly high percentage of those on here who have their dogs routinely castrated, than I meet in everyday life. I find it puzzling.

Alec.

As a footnote. Those who seem to be in the minority, and prefer to keep their dogs entire, "There's nothing wrong with you"!

 

[millitiger]

Boris was castrated at bang on 6 months.

He is now 9yrs old, has always been lovely and lean and muscly with a beautiful coat.

In hindsight, perhaps I should have left him for a few more months as he isn't as big as a lot of other GSPs I've seen but he's still well within the breed standard.

I personally don't see why you would leave them uncastrated unless used for breeding.

 

[Dobiegirl]

I personally don't see why you would leave them uncastrated unless used for breeding.

I agree, from the dogs view point is must be incredibley frustrating, Ive noticed in this part of the country anyway its the shooting fraternity that dont seem to want to neuter their dogs even if they have no intention of breeding. But as its mostly men who shoot, that may help explain it

 

[CorvusCorax]

In my past life most of the people I know in the breed show, so dogs remain entire, and in sport as well, it is highly unusual to have a neutered dog competing, mine was done before he started competing and a lot of people referred to him as 'no-balls'. There are no other dogs I can think of that have been castrated.

As mentioned ad nauseum, my old dog was not an easy dog and he was not a healthy dog and neutering him improved both his attitude (although there was a lot of training also) and his health issues.

The people who have multiple dogs can have a nightmare when females are in season and all the working male dogs I know are annoying big sods, but for the latter, you want a bit of 'oomph'.
If I wasn't or no longer can work my young dog, he would be neutered because there would be no need for the attitood!

 

[Alec Swan]

......., it is highly unusual to have a neutered dog competing, ....... There are no other dogs I can think of that have been castrated.

.......

Why do you suppose that is? Is it because those who compete at your particular sport, have good reason to leave dogs entire? A genuine question.

Alec.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

The people who have multiple dogs can have a nightmare when females are in season .......

Most of the working kennels that I know of, tend to be "All dogs" or "All bitches", or at the very least, they are very well separated. I agree, mixed kennels, with more than one entire dog, and bitches coming into season, can be a nightmare. I've found that dogs don't seem to bother with bitches, whilst they're not in use, and the problems seem minimal, but then I only have one entire, and when bitches are in season, he's marched off to a stable!

Hunt kennels, for instance, keep hounds of both sexes and they share the same benches, the bitches being drawn out as dog hounds start to take an interest. It can be managed, but I agree, it can also be difficult.

Alec.