When to clip a fit, very fat native- read more before judging...

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tobysg

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I have a Welsh who is looking very fat at the moment.

She is out with a grazing muzzle on all of the time she's out or stays in at night with a double netted haynet, tonight it was 12 kilos but usually more.
If I don't give her enough hay then she eats all of her bed of straw, she has even eaten shavings...

She is ridden around 5 times a week and is relatively fit. Has had two weeks of no/v light jumping as just done an ODE, show and 3 showjumping competitions in consecutive weeks which is alot for a horse who had never jumped competitively before August and she was placed in every class.
I didn't want her to turn sour so gave her some time of just normal schooling and hacking.

I am doing a showjumping competition next week on her possibly.

I schooled her today and really made her give me her best extended trot on both reins and really made her work properly and quite hard but it was for only 25 minutes as it got dark!
When I got in she was literally completely wet with sweat from ears to the end of the saddle!

I didn't really want to clip her yet as I don't want to rug her as she heats up very fast in rugs and I just prefer her without.

Do I clip and rug a VERY fat horse or rough her out so she loses weight but end up with a very sweaty horse on milder days like this when exercised.

just doesn't seem right putting a rug on such a fattie!

And before anyone queries it's not fat- it is! She has a slight gutter down her back, a huge arse and a massive belly with an extra cresty neck, grrr!

Oh and she doesn't get feeds- ever. She's got too much energy as it is!

Also she can be a real handful to ride due to excess energy. she got lunged twice and hacked and still was like being sat on a rocket in the school.

Please no rude answers, I tried to portray the fact I do not endorse her weight and I don't need reminding or educating on the implications of it.I know, hence why I have posted this and have done what I have done.

Simply a do I/ don't I clip, friendly answer :)
 
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I would clip her and rug her. If your taking her hair off it's not like you are rugging her for the sake of it.

If not it's totally impractical to work her properly IMO.
 
Ah, the joys of good doing natives.

I would clip AND not rug, cos I'm mean;)

To be honest, the only reason she needs any coat at all is to keep herself dry. Her fat will keep her warm enough when it's colder (esp at the warmer temps we've got at the mo - be slightly different when it's -18degrees again!). It's only when they get wet that they get cold.

I'm guessing she grows her own wolly mammoth coat? In which case I'd take all the lower fluff off and keep a blanket on top. That will keep her warm in the rain but a) take enough off to make her less sweaty whilst worked and b) make her use some of her fat to keep herself warm whilst out.

OR

I'd hunter clip her (keep face, legs and poss saddle) and get a really lightweight waterproof (the Rhino lightweigth are VERY light and keep no heat in). The lightweight will keep her dry but not warm and she'll have use some energy keeping herself warm.


Either way you want to keep her dry but leave as little warmth left as possible.
 
I would leave her! My daughters pony gets very sweaty when he's worked, he's also slightly overwieght :)

I never clip him and never rug him, he loses it all in the winter which is the way it should be. I give him a little wipe down and chuck him straight out, been doing it for 9 years and he's never had a vet out so I must be doing something ok!!
 
I have a Welsh D/Tb, who tends towards porkiness if not worked regularly, who also grows a very thick, dense coat. I clip him fully bar legs, and keep him lightly rugged so that keeping himself warm uses up those calories! I'd rather control his weight like that than rug him more and feed less. I would be happier turning a sweaty horse out so that he can walk around while he dries off, but wouldn't want to put them in a stable and risk them getting a chill .
But 12kg sounds like a lot of hay.... 26.4lbs...
 
I agree with kallibear! My friend does this with her ISH and he's fine full clip excluding legs only half head and if it's due to rain the lightweight rug goes on, as he is in at night too he only wears an extra light stable or a cotton sheet! Unless The weather turns really bad!
 
My cob is fully clipped and out naked at the moment. He is a hot boy at the best of times and he doesn't suffer from the cold. He has plenty of grazing, sheltered fields and open barn and the herd to run with.
I guess you have to weight up the pro's and con's for him- does he feel the cold- have a sheltered or exposed field- and enough fibre/grass/hay to keep warm ?
 
I would be clipping - probably a trace to start - and just putting a lw rug on to keep her dry. Will make it much easier for you when riding and might help with getting some weight off her too!
 
12kgs does sound like a lot of hay, I'll double check my weigh but I'm sure Shadow only has 6-8kg which has been soaked 12 hours, although that will go out the window when it get too cold to soak!

I would clip her, it will be fair easier to keep her in work when she not a complete mammoth, but as everyone has said either hunter clip and lightly rug or blanket/trace and no rug
 
I had the same dilemma as you with my fatty draught horse, but in the end decided to still keep her naked with a very low chaser clip.
 
My cob has a trace clip and is naked and out at night through the winter; he only wears a rainsheet in torrential rain. Could you try this with yours until she has lost the excess weight?

I don't feed my fatty half as much hay as you're feeding, he'd pop as he's only in light work. :D You could try soaking your hay for 12 hours before feeding that might help.

Getting weight offf of natives is really hard you have my sympathy.
 
I am one mean mummy winston was out with a chaser clip and no rug....

Besides how fat is she, you get some big boned welshes out there, my friends welsh reminds me of a bull dog the way she stands and is built.
 
tbh if you are wanting to do that much with her id really try other steps to get the weight off.... she is out with a muzzle, but could she also be in a fatty paddock (if she isnt already?). Id bed her down on mats with a mere scattering of shavings and give her less hay/soaked/mixed with straw. Have you tried any of the slimming supplements? i have a good dooer for the first time this year and i found leaving him out 24/7 in a fatty paddock, eg almost bare, was the best way to get the blubber off.

if she is sweating that much id defo clip and then LW rug... it will enable you to work her harder and help the weight loss also. good luck :)
 
NeverSayNever said:
tbh if you are wanting to do that much with her id really try other steps to get the weight off.... she is out with a muzzle, but could she also be in a fatty paddock (if she isnt already?). Id bed her down on mats with a mere scattering of shavings and give her less hay/soaked/mixed with straw. Have you tried any of the slimming supplements? i have a good dooer for the first time this year and i found leaving him out 24/7 in a fatty paddock, eg almost bare, was the best way to get the blubber off.

if she is sweating that much id defo clip and then LW rug... it will enable you to work her harder and help the weight loss also. good luck :)
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she used to be fed barley straw with one sec of hay but I've moved to a yard where you can only use their hay so it is not really possible anymore.
She also used to be on mats and shavings but is now having straw on her mats but, like I said, she used to eat her shavings anyway! Weirdo!

My potential plan is to hunter clip her and just put a LW on her and continue with muzzling etc.

No I haven't tried any supplements as I am a bit of a sceptic about some of the things on the market, a bit like I am with human weight loss or 'magical' supplements!

The amount of hay I gave her didn't seem like that much when I made it up, it filled about 75% of the haynet. I don't want her to go without too much hay when in at night as she gets very feisty the morning after and is not very nice to my neighbour horse owner! she has a real problem with them feeding the horse next to her and not her which gets worse when she's hungry! A bit embaressing as she really holds a grudge against them! :/

Thanks everyone, glad I am not the only person who was thinking of limited rugging :)
 
Best way ever to get weight off natives is clipping and no/light rugs. Only way we used to be able to keep our NF's weight reasonable throughout the year when she lived out! She'd have chaser/blanket clip + rain sheet or at most fleece + rain sheet. Never shivering, always happy, but did lose the excess weight!
 
Clip and DONT rug would be my choice! Unless its going to bucket down with rain, in which case I might stick a rain sheet on......but then again.....
 
My Natives are clipped and rainsheeted until it is mega cold and then they'll have a 200g on, out 24/7. One is full clipped already and the others have high blanket clips. They are perfectly warm enough in a rainsheet and have plenty of blubber to keep them warm. They drop off weight gradually thru winter until they are very slim come March time just in time for the Spring grass. I rainsheet them as it means i don't have to spend an hour chipping the mud off every time i ride, simply haven't the time, would rather be riding!
 
I feel your pain, I have a very fat Welsh x ID. He doesnt change shape irrespective of what he eats summer or winter, how much exercise etc etc
I tend to clip him naked as then it doesnt matter how much work i do with him or how late at night it is as he wont be too sweaty.
He would probably only have a lightweight on for quite a while and with the weather sunny like it has been theres nothing wrong with whipping it off during the day.
 
Depends what clip you are thinking? From the sounds of it he could do with a full clip but personally I dont believe in full clipping a horse and not rugging ATALL regardless of the weight of the horse... it's like throwing an obese person into a field naked just because they are fat but thats just my opinion ;) (When I say rug I mean a rain sheet if cold and wet not massive heavy rugs lol)

I would

1. Change to a bedding which he will not eat ie. Rubber matting bedding with a sprinkle of paper/aubios/pellets damped down
2. Cut down on feed and hay (soak hay for 30mins) Put a haynet inside of a small mesh haynet to make super duper small mesh!
3. Turnout in a starvation paddock
4. Exercise as much as possible
 
Mine's a bit like yours - I sympathise! He's very wooly, fairly fat but pretty fit! I have clipped him (just a chaser) beacuse he was geting so sweaty and uncomfortable, but I don't rug him up. He will be hunter clipped and lightly rugged by the end of the month - just waiting for a sarcoid to drop off! It sounds like you've tried everything to get the weight off yours, and you've probably tried this one - soaking his hay for 12 or even 24 hours (plus a vit/min supplement). Like you, I prefer to give mine plenty of hay when he's in, to keep him occupied, but soaking it did seem to reduce the calorie content enough to make him drop a bit of weight! Best of luck.
 
tobysg said:
I have a Welsh who is looking very fat at the moment.

She is out with a grazing muzzle on all of the time she's out or stays in at night with a double netted haynet, tonight it was 12 kilos but usually more.
If I don't give her enough hay then she eats all of her bed of straw, she has even eaten shavings...

:)
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Tobysg, I have a 17.1 irish draught and he has between 6 and 7 kgs at night. If he is in during the day he gets 4-5kg. All double netted but I am thinking of triple netting.
My 16.2 stallion has 7kg's at night, he's not on a diet but any more and he wastes it.

Ditto everyone who has said change the bedding to non edible, or if you can leave out on very limited grazing as they actually eat less like that than they do in a stable because they have to work twice as hard for much less food.

You don't say how big your welshie is, but I have two Exmoors with me on DIY and they have 3kg's of hay at night.
 
The Laminitus Trust now recommend clipping top line off i.e an upside down chaser so half neck off from mane down and along the back to the top of the loins, so all organs are kept warmed but ponies then reduce body weight by losing heat through their top line and if need to be warm will shiver and use the food they are eating for warming themselves up.

Nothing cruel in not rugging an unclipped pony it just allows them to keep warm nature intended, after all ponies were evolved to live on very very sparse grazing that they had to walk miles over to get food, and used their body weight from the summer to burn off shivering in the winter. To me it is far better to feed them adlib hay (if you can soak it then this will help) and let them shiver a little to keep weight off than starve them for x number of hours a day.

Good luck, it is so so hard to get the balance 100% right and also please all the people judging you at the same time.

Hope you get there.
 
But nature didn't intend for them to be clipped!!

In an ideal world ponies should put weight on in the summer and lose it in the winter and left to "get on with it" no clipping and no rugging, left out in all weathers.

Todays pasture and the way we live doesn't let us do this, shame though!
 
If you don't want to rug her then I'd suggest a belly clip, run the line from the top of her back leg stopping behind the elbow, then take of the chest hair and going up the line of the gullet. With this clip you won't have to rug her and she will keep cooler and dry quicker.

BellyBib.jpg
 
I'd give a bib and belly to release some heat when ridden and then not rug. When you get further into winter and want to give a real clip then do so and rug.

Seems to me you know your horse, if she gets a little chilly with out a rug and a small clip she'l shiver off some weight!!! :)

Good luck, sounds like an amazing ponio.
 
12kg is alot of hay but is it a welsh a, b, c or d?

I would trace clip and LW rug. Do not clip more off than this and have no rug.
 
It depends how much work you plan on doing with her, if you are limited with the light etc then I would not clip her and leave her out unrugged and worked less, oh and 12kilo's is a lot, can she live out 24/7?
 
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