When to know it is time?

I_A_P

I_A_P

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Sorry this may be long.

My lovely boy is 27 I have had him for 11 years now. He has been arthritic since I have had him and old owners used to bute him when he needed it- he had hunted much of his life before I had him. I then had a few years of pony club with him and then just hacking. He has been retired for years now as just to stiff and uncomfy to be ridden.

He has been on a danilon a day for I would say at least 5/6years if not more (time goes so quick). This has kept him happy mooching around, like I say he's not been ridden in this time.

He has struggled a bit laying down and getting up for the last year or so but in spells rather than all the time. He doesn't do much more than walk around the field and certainly is lame in trot as back end is weak and arthritic. Apart from this he is generally healthy and keeps his weight very easily. I have guessed for a while he probably has cushings but apart from a curly coat he seems ok and I just clip him this time of year to keep him cooler.
Just over a week ago he was incredibly stiff and clearly sore and at one point was struggling to move (hind legs) he was frustrated and pawed the ground but would move slowly once he got going. I upped his danilon for a couple of days which helped a bit but he still wad not his usual self and one day i saw him stumble badly to get up (cant grt back legs underneath to push himself).

We then Called the vet out the following day and they gave him a painkiller jab and they suggested upping danilon more for a few days/week and seeing where we go. He does seem better, still slow but walking ok. He was laid down the other night and once he got up you could see he was stiff again and pawed the ground but was better once he got going. We are about to start bringing the dosage down so just wondered where to go next if he's not much better. He is out 24/7,

First they were talking about cushings testing him but she said there were downsides to the treatment. Also talking about steroids for him but am I wrong to wonder if at his age I want all of that? Especially with the side effects she mentioned.

If he is happily medicated with painkillers then I have no problem doing so but am not sure i would want to give him a load I steroids and get him cushings tested as not sure what real benefit it would do for him. When do you start to think if the PTS option if there isnt much improvement ? It's something I have never had to do, I love this horse so dearly and I don't know what I would do without him but I guess the reality is iv ways known it would come to that time but the question is when is it right?
 
If he was mine I would just keep him on the pain killers for now but not treat him for anything else, doesn't really sound like steroids or anything else would do anymore than maybe prolong the enevitable. Why not leave him for the summer, he sounds just old and a creaky and if he's still lying down then his joints can't be that bad. Maybe reconsider come the colder weather as he's living out but I wouldn't pts just now.
 
Thanks bonny that's my feeling to, I just don't want to be a soppy owner and not do the right thing. I also think it's a good time to think about it now rather than have an emergency type situation and not be prepared as must admit iv always tried not to think about it



I just don't feel it's right to look at the cushings or give him steroids as its not going to make a difference long term.

He doesn't lay down much at all, had done this past week but wonder if his legs just wanted a rest if he's in pain but that's a catch 22 as getting up clearly makes him sore again,
Will see how he gies
 
I would think about pts sooner than the end of summer. He is clearly in pain now and that is with lots of medication and pain killers. You don't want to get to the yard and find that he has got down for a lie down and now can't get back up again so have to pts then. Will be much more horrific for you have to watch him struggling before the vet can get there. He just doesn't sound happy how he is now, better now than when he really can't move.
 
I wouldn't write off medicating his Cushings, it might be worth trying to see if it helps him. There's not really anything to lose, apart from the cost.
 
bluebellfreddy said:
I would think about pts sooner than the end of summer. He is clearly in pain now and that is with lots of medication and pain killers. You don't want to get to the yard and find that he has got down for a lie down and now can't get back up again so have to pts then. Will be much more horrific for you have to watch him struggling before the vet can get there. He just doesn't sound happy how he is now, better now than when he really can't move.
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This would be my feelings too. Sadly, there comes a time when you have to ask yourself what you are hoping for. It's really distressing for horse and owner if they get down and can't get back up. You've obviously been a fantastic owner and he's reached a great age for a horse that has had a busy life. Good luck in what you decide to do.
 
Thank you all. He seems bright and happy in himself and looks well which makes its more difficult. I certainly wouldn't want him to suffer unnecessarily but think I need to give him a chance (even a couple of weeks) to see if there is any improvement. We wondered whether my other horse may have barged into him or whether he slipped or something causing the real stiffness and therefore perhaps given a bit of time he may get back to where he was. Even when at his worst he would graze happily and wander around albeit slowly, he just found it harder if he had been stood for a while.

Gloi- can you explain how medicating the cushings could help? Sorry I do not know an awful lot about it and rather discounted it after thinking it wouldn't make much difference to his mobility.

It is distressing seeing him when he is bad hence knowing the is an option we have to consider. I don't want to not give him a chance though. We will be speaking to the vet again once we know what he's like on a lower pain relief dose.
 
I wasn't thinking really about it helping his mobility but if he did have Cushings and it was medicated that it may help all the other health problems that are associated with it which may make him feel generally better all round. I know a pony whose owners had almost written him off and since being treated has really gained a new lease of life.
I think though only you and your vet can know what is best for your pony because you do not want to find him one day unable to get up, but if it was my I'd probably try the things the vet suggested if the cost is not prohibitive, before making a decision.
 
Thanks gloi, if his mobility improves or of the vets think it will make a difference to him it is worth looking at. Will discuss with the vet.
 
Brucea- thanks, I just discussed this with mum as she was the one who spoke to the vet (I was at work) apparently the vet mentioned cushings in passing because of his coat but said as it doesn't give him any other problems it may not be worth treating as wont make a difference to his mobility issue. Again, will see how he is in a couple of days and then re-assess.

Iv just walked him to our other paddock for some better grass and although slow he was moving quite well
 
What happens if you are not there one day and he cant get up, especially with the wet ground, if it was me i would be getting ready to go to horsey heaven kinder than see them suffer.
 
Fortunately there is pretty much always someone around keeping an eye on him as he is kept at home. there does seem some improvement but clearly with the painkillers.

I certainly won't be letting him suffer if there is no improvement, it's already been upsetting and this is why im thinking about this option. He's such a proud horse and I just couldn't let him go further downhill without taking action. If on the other hand he improves in a short space of time and can return happily to his low daily danilon dose and happily potter around for a bit longer and not be too affected by arthritis then will leave him be.
 
I have a friend who was in a similar situation. She waited until one day the mare couldnt get up and it was horribly distressing for everyone involved, especially the poor horse.
If you have seen him struggle then I would be thinking sooner rather than later, purely for his sake
 
Thanks TheMule, it's difficult As yes he did struggle to get up but if this was due to an acute problem (ie other horse barging into him has made him sore or him slippin) rather than a natural deterioration of his existing arthritis I would hate not to give him a week or two to see if there Is improvement.

Walking across the field tonight he looked ok, a little doddery. By Monday I should have a better idea of where we are at.
 
When I made the decision to put my old horse to sleep my vet said to me, better a month too early than a day too late. It helped me with my difficult decision
 
Having had my neighbours horse go down and not be able to get up again having been laid all night in his own muck, I'd make the decision to pts now.

Far better to let him go with dignity and peacefully than a traumatic end that makes you wish you'd acted sooner in my opinion.
 
Personally, I don't see the point of keeping animals going if they are dosed up on painkillers and still can't make it out of a walk.

I agree with those who have voiced concerns about him getting stuck when he's laid down. If he can't manage that then I think it's time.

Don't let yourself believe someone will spot him down straight away. When my 35y/o went down with colic (the day I said goodbye) she got her foot stuck in the gate. The field is next to my neighbour's house, and you can see in from the road. She was spotted by another neighbour who always looked out to see her. Just because there are people around doesn't mean someone will spot him.
 
having a horse PTS is a very personal decision, and if you make it when you are not 100% ok with your reasoning then you will just torture yourself with the guilt.

IMO, having read your story i would not both cushings testing, i would be seriously considering PTS sooner than later. for me if he is struggling to get up i would PTS before you have to have him sedated and someone with a tractor lift him off the floor. It seems sad but if they are well at the time then that is the best time, before he is really poorly.

just my own opinion obv
 
If he were mine, I'd be making arrangements to have him put down. There would be no one lastsummer iI'm afraid.
 
Thank you for your thoughts everyone. I certainly do not want him suffering and clearly this is something we need to come to terms with happening soon. We wwill be speaking to the vets anyway in a few days to see how he is. It is not solely my decision as is very much a family horse too which makes it worse.
 
My old girl could get herself up and down with moderate difficulty but was liable to trip and fall and the other horses were starting to bully her, knowing that she couldn't move away quickly and that she was partially sighted. My biggest fear was that they would have a go and get her on the ground in a position she couldn't get up from (she had a weird way of rolling and never rolled over) and I'd come down and find her in a state in the mud. So I had her PTS before that situation occurred. She was the most precious thing in the world to me but I have no regrets and am glad I jumped before I was pushed.
 
When I turn the old boy out i watch him canter away, have a buck and then have a roll, if he struggles to get up, then i know the time has come to PTS. It's hard to say goodbye to an old friend but it's the last thing you can do for them.
 
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