When to PG again?!

Vickijay

Vickijay

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Hi all,
Please could someone help me with my question??
If you're PG'ing a horse, is it 5 days after they've ovulated or 5 days after they've finishing being season, until you can PG them again?

Thank you very much!
 
Whats a corpus luteum?
She last ovulated last wed. I thought the vet said 5days. We need to do it later tonight/tomorrow... Gulp. Dont know about her folicle size as we havent scanned her today
 
Hi Vikijay

The corpus luteum is sometimes called the yellow body and its the "leftovers" from the follicle that just ovulated. (sorry but avoiding getting too technical!)
It produces progesterone which maintains pregnancies.

It takes at least 5 days for the CL to appear so that's probably why you have 5 days from your vet. I treat on the 6th day.

Normally, after 14 days, if your mare is not pregnant, she will produce prostaglandin herself and this destroys the CL, allowing her to come back into season.

We intefere by giving prostaglandin injections to speed up this process, killing off the CL after just 6/7 days to induce her into season again. Effectively you save a week but its not fool proof.
 
Thanks for asking this - my mare was PG'ed on Monday and as yet is showing no interest in the teaser so I wondered what the time scale might be for the next step if she remains disinterested this week
 
Thanks for that. I just re-rang vet and he said 5 days too. So in worse case if she was ovulating last Thurs/Fri (altho I think it was prob late Wed) it should still be ok.... and if it needs to be 7 days I might still be ok as she was coming out by Friday so must of ovulated by then..
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Hi mother_hen
Normally my vet would scan prior to giving the PG to establish where any follicles are re their size.
If any follicles present are less than 30 cm at the point you inject then your mare should be ready to inseminate in 6 to 12 days. Just keep teasing and as soon as she shows interest, scan to check progress. (if there was a follicle bigger than 30cm when you injected then she could ovulate a lot quicker 2-3days)

If she isn't coming into season, then she may have a persistent CL (the scan will pick this up) - my mare had that this year and they treated with more prostaglandin to get it to move. We lost a couple of weeks but she sucessfully ovulated (in fact so successfully she did it twice so we are now going to be scanning for twins!)
 
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Hi mother_hen
If any follicles present are less than 30 cm at the point you inject then your mare should be ready to inseminate in 6 to 12 days.. (if there was a follicle bigger than 30cm when you injected then she could ovulate a lot quicker 2-3days)


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So roughly how big should magics folicles be now, if she ovulated a week ish ago???
My vet said that he thinks if we PG her tonight, we will scan on mon and then hopefully AI on tue/wed..... (which is the last day the stallion is ok to be collected from without a big pain in the ar$e, again sods law
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Hi Vikijay,
Its not easy to guess. I would insist that your vet scans her tomorrow morning, establish where she is re any dominant follicles and take it from there.

Are you teasing her every day and do you know her signs and how they progress? (if you haven't got a stallion on site, I've found that geldings are happy to help and will still induce a response - the closer she is the less she cares! I had one mare who used to chase, backwards, after another mare when we turned out..
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If the answer is yes to the above then you can then get the vet out to scan again once she is definitely showing signs - you need to tease every day though and make notes on her response changes - it really helps if you can't scan every day.
 
Progesterone is typically misused by MANY vets and breeders involved in equine repro!

I would recommend EVERYONE read this illuminating article - http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/Prostaglandin.shtml

If you PG at the wrong time - or for the wrong reasons - not only are you wasting your money but you can seriously compromise your chances of a pregnancy.
 
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Its not easy to guess. I would insist that your vet scans her tomorrow morning, establish where she is re any dominant follicles and take it from there.


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He has to fly to Europe tomorrow so thats a no go. I am pretty scared now about what if it doesnt work. He didnt mention anything about this. Just said it should be straightforward like last time. Sometimes I wonder if too much info is a bad thing.
I just rang and explained to the on call vet at Liphook and he seemed to think it should all be ok too. I feel v stressed about the whole thing now tho, esp with the timing needed for the stallion
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[ QUOTE ]
Are you teasing her every day and do you know her signs and how they progress?

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Last time by the Sunday evening she was coming in and interested in my gelding, so I moved him. By Mon/Tue/Wed she was BEGGING anyone to have sex with her. Even one of my yearling fillies. She wouldnt move when I led her past a gelding and stood there weeing infront of him. Infact she was just weeing when she was by herself!! Vet thought it was very funny she was SOOOOOOOOO obvious!!!!

Poor tragic wants to have sex.... or another baby!!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Progesterone is typically misused by MANY vets and breeders involved in equine repro!

I would recommend EVERYONE read this illuminating article - http://www.equine-reproduction.com/articles/Prostaglandin.shtml

If you PG at the wrong time - or for the wrong reasons - not only are you wasting your money but you can seriously compromise your chances of a pregnancy.

[/ QUOTE ]


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Now Im really worried, I contemplated not reading it, but I did.

He seemed really chilled out about it and he is a experienced repro vet but now Im super worried
 
Her last natural cycle she was still in on the 25th June. She was pg'd on the 3rd of July and she came in on the 6th/7th
The dates this time will be pretty simular....

Does the fact that it brought her in last time mean it should work again??

Im so worried about- •If prostaglandin F2α is given to a mare with follicles >3 cm, the resulting pregnancy rate will be decreased.
Is it likely that hers will be >3 cm??????
 
Don't panic Vickijay

There are some great articles that give you all the positives and negatives but it doesn't mean its going to happen to your mare

OK, your vet can't scan tomorrow BUT you're mare sounds like she is very obvious when she is in season SO
for the next 3 days tease her morning and evening - have your gelding in his box and walk her up to the door. He will try and "mutual groom" probably (horses idea of foreplay
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)and she will either scream and stamp her front foot (she may strike out so keep to the side) or she'll start "winking" which will then progress to weeing etc. You need someone standing at the business end to check what the signs are.

If you think she is progressing quickly ie she's at the weeing and begging the wheelbarrow stage
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, then get her in (or a vet out) and scanned. Otherwise wait until Monday.

Do you know what size her follicle was at when she was exhibiting strong heat last time and then what size she ovulated at? (just being nosy now but what happened on the last heat that you are having to start again?)

Good luck for Monday and let us know how it all turns out.
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She had been on loan to a lady at a stud, been AI'd 3 times (with no scanning or anything
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) and hadnt taken so I got her home and had her swabbed, she had a infection with 2 types of nasty bacteria, so we had to pg her into do 3 days of antibiotics in there, then she had the week off till now. Now have found stallion and am going to try again.

Last time there was a 3 day gap till she came in properly so hopefully she will be the same now......

I guess if its just that she might come in sooner thats not that bad...... altho now I have said that it will prob all go wrong!!! Altho both my vets agree on whats happening now so it hopefully cant be to worng!!

Ill go jab her in a min and worry by sunday when shes desperate. Fingers crossed that she will be as whorey and obvious as last time!!x
 
Echo Janet - please don't PG without scanning. As well as making sure you have a corpus luteum, you also must make sure you don't have any larger dominant follicles or they will ovulate before you can do anything. PG'ing blind is a total waste of time and money and should not be done!
 

Ditto - clients sometime request that mares be jabbed in without scanning (especially if its late in the season) but its not something we do.

It messes up the whole cycle and ultimately, defeats the object of trying to save time!

Good luck with your mare - as said, she is in good hands.
 
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