When to PTS?

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Meadow

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I'm sorry for such a morbid topic but when have you said enough and looked to have a horse put to sleep?

I have had one since she was weaned and is now 13. She has a real nasty streak though, from a yearling she would bolt across the field at me and try to double barrel me. Then in ridden work she hasn't been straight forward and has reared, bucked and napped. She's been diagnosed with PSSM, I keep her on the proper diet but because of her ridden past and the fact I have other horses that to be honest are nicer to ride, I decided it was fairer to retire her as I wouldn't be able to keep a level of fitness up which would allow me to take her on hacks, she doesn't enjoy schooling.

In general daily life we get on ok. However I went to catch her today and because it didn't suit her she went to double barrel me, its not a warning type either it's a real I want to get you, kill you and eat your liver with fava beans and a nice chianti. Same happened a couple of weeks ago.

I don't think any level of training will help her, I've spoken with trainers and to be honest she's ten times worse with the pros than me so I think I have it as good as it gets. I also don't believe pain is involved as she hasn't changed and has seen vets and physios in the past.

As a field companion she gets a big fat fail as well as she has bad seperation anxiety.

All in all a complicated character that I have spent years trying to reform and I think that she is the character that she is and I have come to accept that this is what it is.

So back to the question... it has crossed my mind that perhaps, not now or nor really in the near future, but there will be a time I will have to PTS (this is assuming no medical conditions cause for us to part). I have 5 and I don't want 5 forever as I feel pretty exhausted by the physical, emotional and financial drain and have my own medical conditions and am starting out in a brand new career I really would like to do well in. I feel completely and utterly selfish, especially when I see her grazing happily with her chums in the sunshine. Am I totally wrong to think of PTS? I wouldn't sell or loan her, that would just be asking for trouble and a likely lawsuit. There is one other I would loan and I don't really want to part with the other 3 as 2 I can have fun on ie. The riding element of horse ownership and the other has had a rough life through no fault of his own as he's a one eyed lovable character.

Advanced apologies to those that have recently lost their horses under uncontrollable circumstances. I would honestly swap positions if I could. I love my mare deeply but she hasn't brought me bucket fulls of happiness, its been a lot of blood (literally - now on my 5th operation thanks to her antics!), sweat and tears and I am not excited about a future we have together, our future is as it is now.
 
I fully sympathise with your situation.

But I wouldn't own anything ill mannered beyond training towards me. Nor would I sell on to injure someone else. So my decision would not be nice, but sensible and one I would not hold any judgement over if someone was to do the same.
 
I agree,life's too short to be fighting or struggling. You have tried and never getting anything back is so frustrating and in this case dangerous! Enjoy the 4 you can and feel good that you gave her the best you could :)
 
I agree with the others PTS is the best option. I have one similar but he is a great companion as his tummy is all he cares about so can be left alone with a small strip of grass. He is laminitic so wil be PTS if he succumbs again. He attacks children and broke my leg in several places with his antics but I love him to bits and am fully aware he can never leave me as he is only 12hh. Owned from a foal and has always been the same so I can honestly say it is nature not nurture in his case.
 
I often read these threads and don't comment, purely because I'm more of a softie than most and usually don't want to cloud what is already a hard decision for others with my own sentimentality.

In your case, however, I think you really have done your very best for her. It's not fair to yourself, your family, or your other horses to keep putting yourself in danger, and a horse that tries to double barrel you at random is undoubtedly dangerous. If you need to call it a day now, do so. It's not cruelty or selfishness, just a very hard decision that it may well be time to make.
 
I could be writing this post in 7 years time OP - if not earlier.

My 6yo PSSM mare can be horrible to be around - especially if she's in pain. Despite diet changes she isn't responding and her muscles are still tight and she doesn't enjoy being ridden. The vet and I have a few things to try this year and I really, really hope they are successful - but it's draining on my pocket and my energy.

Unfortunately paddock rest can make them worse as all that glycogen just keeps building up in their muscles.

I totally get where you're coming from.
 
If you're putting yourself in this much danger then its time to call it a day. 5 ops aren't to be taken lightly imo!

Imagine if something happened to you and someone else had to care for her/ was sold her etc. You've said you wouldn't want anyone else to be put at that risk, yet you're putting yourself in it.

I had to make the god awful decision of putting my boy to sleep in December - I wouldn't judge you or resent you at all, it doesn't change my opinion that you are being sensible in considering in pts.

She's had a good run in, and shes not going to change. Maybe give her one last summer?
 
No-one should judge you for making a decision that is right for you. At the end of the day she sounds a troubled character who has been given a chance she may not have had elsewhere. Personally I wouldn't have an aggressive animal in my field.
 
Another here who won't judge you.

I knew someone who PTS a very similar horse for virtually identical reasons. I supported that decision and if I knew you, I'd be fully supportive of yours. This other one lived out in a small herd and, although it didn't have any separation issues and wasn't overly aggressive to other horses, it did cause ructions with the others. The field dynamics were a lot more settled once it had gone and although obviously the owner was devastated, they did feel a huge sense of relief after.
 
ycbm said:
I'd book it this week if she was mine.
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I have for the one I have like that. Too dangerous to continue, and no way I would saddle someone else with this horse. Huntsman booked for Friday. Be strong OP, you will feel bad but it's for the best for all concerned including the horse.
 
That's a ringing vote of endorsement for your decision OP. Anyone who doesn't sell or giveaway a problem horse does the right thing in my book.
 
TTK said:
I have for the one I have like that. Too dangerous to continue, and no way I would saddle someone else with this horse. Huntsman booked for Friday. Be strong OP, you will feel bad but it's for the best for all concerned including the horse.
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Yes I've actually done it too :( The horse was healthy physically but mentally a screwball. After turning himself quite literally upside down in a lorry, all four feet pointing at the ceiling, jumping fences that weren't there (and in the process once coming down on one that was!) and behaving really oddly in the field, I had him shot. He was eleven. I could practically see my other two stop holding their breath when he was gone.

Hope it goes OK on Friday for you.

Worse things by far for a disturbed horse than to be dead OP. Don't feel bad.
 
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I would also book the day for her. she sounds to be a troubled horse that obviously has issues and who could easily hurt someone very badly if they went into her field for some reason. you are starting a new career and say you are on your 5th operation thats caused by her so I would say to get it done before operation number 6 or before the ground gets muddy and you cannot get out of her way when she next decides to kick you which from what you have written could be in the next 2 weeks. very lucky horse to have been with someone who gave her plenty of chances and is not just doping her up and selling her on
 
Thank you for all the honest replies, it's played on my mind for a long time and been very much like a game of table tennis from should I, shouldnt I. I hate the feeling of playing god with a life that had it not been for a human wanting her to behave in an acceptable domesticated manner, would have done perfectly well out in the wild (forgetting the PSSM for one second!). So for that reason I feel completely responsible.

I do feel I am constantly blaming myself for her behaviour. Perhaps I moved too quickly, I didn't do that right, etc. Its a bit like being in a bad relationship with someone. Interestingly enough I met a lady who was really hot on QH breeding (she's QHxNF...my mare not the lady ;) ) and she said the bloodline was quite well known for producing stock that had an aggresive streak to them.

I won't set a date just yet, although I am seeing the vet on Thursday so can discuss it with her then.


SEL said:
I could be writing this post in 7 years time OP - if not earlier.

My 6yo PSSM mare can be horrible to be around - especially if she's in pain. Despite diet changes she isn't responding and her muscles are still tight and she doesn't enjoy being ridden. The vet and I have a few things to try this year and I really, really hope they are successful - but it's draining on my pocket and my energy.

Unfortunately paddock rest can make them worse as all that glycogen just keeps building up in their muscles.

I totally get where you're coming from.
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This has crossed my mind, is it pain from PSSM making her like she is? She has tied up twice and the last occasion was very mild and 6 years ago, the first time was 7 years ago and she had her diet changed from that day onwards. The fact she has been like she is since very early on makes me think it's a character thing, she certainly has never shown any symptoms of being in pain, muscles have never felt abnormal and she moves well whilst out in the field, she has lived out 24/7 predominantly the past 5 years.
 
Meadow said:
This has crossed my mind, is it pain from PSSM making her like she is? She has tied up twice and the last occasion was very mild and 6 years ago, the first time was 7 years ago and she had her diet changed from that day onwards. The fact she has been like she is since very early on makes me think it's a character thing, she certainly has never shown any symptoms of being in pain, muscles have never felt abnormal and she moves well whilst out in the field, she has lived out 24/7 predominantly the past 5 years.
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I have a QHx by Impressive, with PSSM. Even with his PSSM completely under control from a physical point of view, he's quirky. But in a completely lovable, needy way. So far, he has only broken my foot, by accident. I'd be very wary about rehoming him, and if he was like yours I would say goodbye.

I hope the vet is realistic. In my experience they aren't quick to suggest PTS as an option.
 
Its a very brave thing for you to do, and it sounds like you have given her a lifetime of opportunity. No one should criticise such a difficult decision and without being in that situation probably have no idea how hard it is for you. As others have said you have given her 13 wonderful years, horses have no concept of time or fear of death. Better a day too early than a day too late, when she has hurt you, or another horse. It sounds like you are very level headed and are taking your time with the difficult decision, you are totally doing the right thing, rather than moving her on to an unknown future. Good luck with your decision x
 
PSSM is difficult - we don't know what combination of genes triggers symptoms and why some horses suffer more than others.

It could be pain, it could be personality but either way you've given this horse a lovely life and should have no guilt about saying goodbye.
 
OP, I have the upmost respect for someone who can make this sort of decision over palming them off on someone else, because I see it happen so much.

I wouldn't blame you if you did it this week. Please don't put yourself in any danger with this horse, it's not worth it x
 
scats said:
OP, I have the upmost respect for someone who can make this sort of decision over palming them off on someone else, because I see it happen so much.

I wouldn't blame you if you did it this week. Please don't put yourself in any danger with this horse, it's not worth it x
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Absolutely this ^^^

Strange how you call as if like playing table tennis when weighing up the pro's and con's of making a decision you don't really want to make as I always call it like playing ping pong with my mind
I'm sure your vet if anything like mine will be supportive with whatever decision you make after watching you with a battle on your hands over the years
Be kind to yourself
 
Meadow said:
Thank you for all the honest replies, it's played on my mind for a long time and been very much like a game of table tennis from should I, shouldnt I. I hate the feeling of playing god with a life that had it not been for a human wanting her to behave in an acceptable domesticated manner, would have done perfectly well out in the wild (forgetting the PSSM for one second!). So for that reason I feel completely responsible.

I do feel I am constantly blaming myself for her behaviour. Perhaps I moved too quickly, I didn't do that right, etc. Its a bit like being in a bad relationship with someone. Interestingly enough I met a lady who was really hot on QH breeding (she's QHxNF...my mare not the lady ;) ) and she said the bloodline was quite well known for producing stock that had an aggresive streak to them.

I won't set a date just yet, although I am seeing the vet on Thursday so can discuss it with her then.




This has crossed my mind, is it pain from PSSM making her like she is? She has tied up twice and the last occasion was very mild and 6 years ago, the first time was 7 years ago and she had her diet changed from that day onwards. The fact she has been like she is since very early on makes me think it's a character thing, she certainly has never shown any symptoms of being in pain, muscles have never felt abnormal and she moves well whilst out in the field, she has lived out 24/7 predominantly the past 5 years.
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I have to say I'm in agreement with all the other posters about your predicament. I've always believed that there are a few that are just born bad. (like some humans!) Just out of interest - as I'm into the QH breed myself - what is her breeding on the QH side?
 
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