when you need a vet... tip...
- Thread starter Queenbee
- Start date
morrismob
Well-Known Member
Sorry
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Moomin1
Well-Known Member
IME some people often 'play down' the situation over the phone, especially if it's out of hours as they don't want to pay the call out, and hope that there's another way of dealing with it in the meantime.
I am quite lucky in that I know a lot of different vets, so quite often give a quick ring to the ones who I know very well and get a second opinion over the phone as to whether a vet should come out that night. But tbh, I trust my judgement with most things, and if I have ANY niggles or doubts, the vet is out.
I hate seeing on here when people say they have had x amount of years experience so 'they very rarely have the vet out because they treat their horses themselves'. I have plenty of experience, qualifications etc, but that doesn't make me a vet, so therefore I will not try to diagnose my horse or treat (unless it's obviously something very straight forward).
I am quite lucky in that I know a lot of different vets, so quite often give a quick ring to the ones who I know very well and get a second opinion over the phone as to whether a vet should come out that night. But tbh, I trust my judgement with most things, and if I have ANY niggles or doubts, the vet is out.
I hate seeing on here when people say they have had x amount of years experience so 'they very rarely have the vet out because they treat their horses themselves'. I have plenty of experience, qualifications etc, but that doesn't make me a vet, so therefore I will not try to diagnose my horse or treat (unless it's obviously something very straight forward).
Mogg
Well-Known Member
i think its a good idea for those' not sure' things.
i did it myself after having my mini castrated. (first time for me). Vet told me what signs of infection to look out for and to expect some swelling over the next few days but i wasnt expecting it to be as much as it was. Phone call to the vet she asked me to send a pic and she rang back to reassure me that it was 'normal' but if i still had any concerns at all she was happy to come out.
Saved me a callout fee & saved the vets time. (obvs i would have paid for callout if she or I thought it was needed)
i did it myself after having my mini castrated. (first time for me). Vet told me what signs of infection to look out for and to expect some swelling over the next few days but i wasnt expecting it to be as much as it was. Phone call to the vet she asked me to send a pic and she rang back to reassure me that it was 'normal' but if i still had any concerns at all she was happy to come out.
Saved me a callout fee & saved the vets time. (obvs i would have paid for callout if she or I thought it was needed)
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
In rl I've never heard of a vet not coming out that day for an emergency. Or at the least vet, rather than receptionist speaking to owner to clarify symptoms, & whether it is an emergency or something that can wait a few days.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
IME some people often 'play down' the situation over the phone, especially if it's out of hours as they don't want to pay the call out, and hope that there's another way of dealing with it in the meantime.
I am quite lucky in that I know a lot of different vets, so quite often give a quick ring to the ones who I know very well and get a second opinion over the phone as to whether a vet should come out that night. But tbh, I trust my judgement with most things, and if I have ANY niggles or doubts, the vet is out.
I hate seeing on here when people say they have had x amount of years experience so 'they very rarely have the vet out because they treat their horses themselves'. I have plenty of experience, qualifications etc, but that doesn't make me a vet, so therefore I will not try to diagnose my horse or treat (unless it's obviously something very straight forward).
I agree there are those who play down because they dont want to pay for vets fees, but also there are those who play it down because they dont trust their own judgement and dont want to call a vet out when it may be nothing... some misplaced pride thing I reckon. I think that a certain amount of experience means you dont call the vet out when some others would because you know how to deal and you trust your own capabilities and judgments, but totally agree, we are horse owners, not vets.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
This is what I mean LL, quite often people 'play things down' if they don't want the callout fee. Sad, but it goes on.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, I mean none of us want to waste vet time, and our own money either. I agree it is down to trusting your own instinct and I personally like to err on the side of caution with my animals.
dressedkez
Well-Known Member
I am forever seeing threads on here... my horse has done xyz... vets coming in two days, i trust my vet etc. and responses along the lines of... are you nuts??? the vet needs to come now!!! replies of, no, I trust my vet and he will come in two days because thats his judgement and i trust it.
Yes there is a current post about a horse with a swollen leg, possible puncture would and a vet not due out until friday (now thursday), injury occurred on sunday. Its what prompted me to write this thread, its not the first thread like that, we see them so often and I wanted to share a tip, something I use with my vets and I have found it really useful.
Currently these threads are based on a 'phone call' what owners tell their vets, and the vets have only a conversation on which to base their assessment with regards to condition and urgency of the horse, its really not ideal. Vets are busy, and anything we can do to help them with their judgement helps. If your horse is lame... send a video to their email. If they have a would, send a picture! one look and they can tell the true severity of the situation and act accordingly, they can see evidence of infection, if the wound with need stitching, if a good scrub and antibacterial topical application will suffice and can be carried out by the owner. One phone call, one email with photo and I got a call straight away saying the vet is on his way and will be there in 15 minutes.
Now I have a pretty good rapport with my vets, and i know what im looking at with regards to injury etc, and I can describe it and assess to some extent myself, but a picture/video says so much more, and the vets really appreciate it.
Just my top tip of the day
If I need a vet, then I want them to come promptly, within a couple of hours, or I would not be calling them. Mine are suberb, they come within minutes for an emergency and hours for a not too desparate call, but I need them soon. If it is something routine we negotiate times to suit. The diffrence between vets and the NHS is that we pay them accordingly for visits - so they come promptly!
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
I agree... caution is always the best, none of us want to think that we cost our horse its health by being under cautious. For example, when I rang the vets, I said under the circumstances I think she needs a vet (emphasis on thing as in assume, not think as is certain) then, Im sending a photo to see what you (the vet) thinks, then I get a call to say vet is on way. As it was in this case, the vet turned up, gave tet jab, couldnt stitch (didnt even try) and told me to topically treat it with my own ointment. that said, he is head vet at the practice and it was all positive, because he got to see her and could advise on the seriousness of her condition and stress urgency on her other treatment. I just reckon that the more clarity that can be achieved with our horse, the better or them.
Mocha
Well-Known Member
I don't get it TBH.
I'd love to know where the vet stands when the horse that they've said 'looks ok' in an email gets into difficulty.
I have to wonder about vets who have the time to look through emails, type lengthy or back and forth replies or have long phonecalls. I'd wonder also how its worth their time.
There are vets on the web who will give you a complete diagnose over the internet if you are into that sort of thing.
Most things are clear cut, it either needs to see a vet or it doesn't, if there is uncertainty, then it needs to see a vet - I don't know anyone who cares about their animal who would rather 'save the callout fee' if in doubt. If you don't have the experience, you should get the vet out.
Certain wounds may look innocuous in a photo, but the owner may not have relayed all the relevant information, there is no substitute for having a vet look at the animal in the flesh.
I'd love to know where the vet stands when the horse that they've said 'looks ok' in an email gets into difficulty.
I have to wonder about vets who have the time to look through emails, type lengthy or back and forth replies or have long phonecalls. I'd wonder also how its worth their time.
There are vets on the web who will give you a complete diagnose over the internet if you are into that sort of thing.
Most things are clear cut, it either needs to see a vet or it doesn't, if there is uncertainty, then it needs to see a vet - I don't know anyone who cares about their animal who would rather 'save the callout fee' if in doubt. If you don't have the experience, you should get the vet out.
Certain wounds may look innocuous in a photo, but the owner may not have relayed all the relevant information, there is no substitute for having a vet look at the animal in the flesh.
dressedkez
Well-Known Member
And what the thread is saying here (I think) , that most Vets that you have a relationship with, will show a degree of pragmistism - my vets know that my horses are not insured, so will be sensible in how to deal with a problem - i.e colic surgery, lets try X and Y before we put the animal on the operating table.......Vets need to be hands on - and should not be dealing with email / photogrpahic evidence.
Moomin1
Well-Known Member
This.
Only bit I disagree on, from experience, is the bit about people who care about their animals saving callout fees. Believe me, there are plenty. 'Care' is a very subjective word and can have many different meanings to different people. Quite often people who are asked if they feel that they have met their emaciated animal's needs will say yes they have because they have given it love and attention. Shocking yes, but it is highly common.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
I confess I prefer MY vet - who is the Senior Partner, VERY experienced with horses, and has been looking after mine for 25 years! Of course he's not always available (particularly as in the past year he has had a very bad knee injury that required surgery) - but fortunately I'm experienced enough to tell the junior vets what is wrong and how I think it should be treated (and they know better than to argue with me!)If I have something I think is VERY serious and beyond the scope of the junior vets, then I will demand they get my vet out of bed - and bless him, he comes because he knows that if I'm panicking, it IS serious!
For lesser things I may wait a day or two if the vet is due - for example on Monday I found a 2 year old with a HUGE swollen sheath! He was already on the list for a checkover as he'd lost quite a bit of weight for no apparent reason in the past 2 weeks. Vet was due Wednesday for scanning, jabs, teeth and a few other bits and pieces. The young gelding didn't have a temperature, so washed the sheath and checked for a bean, put him on Danilon and PenStrep, and twice-daily hot and cold hosing - and waited for the scheduled visit. Vet was happy with how I'd treated it - took some bloods and said: 'keep doing the same until bloods back.' The sheath had already come down by about 25%.
"If in doubt, get them out" should be the golden rule. Symptoms can be misleading over the 'phone, even pictures don't tell the whole story!
MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Vets are quite good at asking relevant questions on the phone in order to get the information needed to make the first assessment in order to prioritise call outs.
Fortunately its easier to get a vet than a doctor.
Being a technophobe, if I had to take and send photo's to the vet, it'd be a long wait while I tried to get a signal on my phone and then work out how to do it.
Can we not encourage this hi tech method of communication please, my galaxy phone thing is the bane of my life already.
Fortunately its easier to get a vet than a doctor.
Being a technophobe, if I had to take and send photo's to the vet, it'd be a long wait while I tried to get a signal on my phone and then work out how to do it.
Can we not encourage this hi tech method of communication please, my galaxy phone thing is the bane of my life already.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
This isn't about vets not looking, or avoiding the vet call out though, take the flip side of your argument, through a phone call a vet may decide that a visit the following day is appropriate but seeing a picture may realise that the description the caller is giving is not spot on and the wound/issue needs treatment right now.
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
I don't entirely agree with you... But then I would never advocate sending photographic or video evidence for possible colic. When ebs had mild colic, they told me over the phone to walk her round, then come and check on her an hr later and if she was any worse they would come out, infact they would come out right now if I wanted them but they thought, 'give it a bit more time'. I think that yes it can be a useful tool. But then perhaps that is down to the nature of my relationship with my vet, however, take for instance the other thread I mentioned... Puncture wound in the soul and swollen leg and lame... A phone call gets op a visit on Friday initially, if op had sent a picture of the injury, no vet would have left it till Friday. This is not a criticism of the op of that thread, it's just an illustration of how it can be a beneficial tool. As some people have said its great for vets to monitor progress of wound healing too, if everything is going well, do you really need the vet to come out just to tell you that? It's all relative to the situation, and whilst I understand your reluctance, I do think there is a place for it.
leflynn
Well-Known Member
Good top tip and one I've used before on request of the vet 
Thanks SQ
I've also emailed pics of my boy's eyes during long term treatment as the vet didn't feel the need to come and charge me for taking them himself.
Technology is great if you are happy to use it, and it works!
Thanks SQI've also emailed pics of my boy's eyes during long term treatment as the vet didn't feel the need to come and charge me for taking them himself.
Technology is great if you are happy to use it, and it works!
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
Hmm, what type of vets have the time to look through emails... Well, mine did, when we were fighting to save my mare for six week, but then perhaps that's dedication for you
St Nicnaclaus
Well-Known Member
Hmm, what type of vets have the time to look through emails... Well, mine did, when we were fighting to save my mare for six week, but then perhaps that's dedication for you
Absolutely. Mine is a techno-whizz with i-Phone on him at all times and i-Pad in the van - checks emails between visits. It takes 2 seconds!
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
I do agree that if there's any doubt you should get a vet, however when the owner has doubts will vary on experience, & also the individual horse. Last injury one of mine had was daughters pony coming in with a random piece of small metal jammed in her sole. Her very concave hooves meant it wasn't deep. I never even considered calling the vet. I hot tubbed, stuck a hot poultice on & rang the farrier. She wasn't lame enough to warrant bute, rather that would have been detrimental because she would have worsened the minor bruising if she was 100% sound. Farrier came next day, slightly widened the hole to allow quicker drainage, then came back to plug hole. Likewise we had a youngster on our yard a few years ago who's stifle locked. First time it happened owner thought he'd broken his leg & was about to die. We were able to reassure her it wasn't worth an emergency call out, & it could be easily unlocked. And perhaps ring normal hours & mention it if she was concerned, & ask vet to look when back in a few weeks anyway. However a horse presenting mild colic symptoms I can deal with, but I have no idea whether mild colic will turn severe, so I would always ring a vet. Even if the vet just tells me to continue what I'm doing & call back in an hour, I'd still want to have back up & a second opinion in place.
Imo getting a vet or not comes down to a few things. If I can diagnose & treat it correctly myself, I won't get a vet. If I doubt my diagnosis or don't have the right things for treatment, I get a vet. The other variable would be something I know the vet would also not treat/diagnose that day. Eg a horse that appears 1/10 lame on the lunge in canter on one rein on sunday afternoon I wouldn't bother consulting a vet for till monday, because a vet isn't going to do anything there & then I can't do myself. And as already said, if its something like mild colic which can quickly change to something I can't deal with alone. Other exception would be hoof issues when farrier would be first port of call over vet.
Imo getting a vet or not comes down to a few things. If I can diagnose & treat it correctly myself, I won't get a vet. If I doubt my diagnosis or don't have the right things for treatment, I get a vet. The other variable would be something I know the vet would also not treat/diagnose that day. Eg a horse that appears 1/10 lame on the lunge in canter on one rein on sunday afternoon I wouldn't bother consulting a vet for till monday, because a vet isn't going to do anything there & then I can't do myself. And as already said, if its something like mild colic which can quickly change to something I can't deal with alone. Other exception would be hoof issues when farrier would be first port of call over vet.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Have seen the post in question.
I learnt a very expensive lesson with a horse of mine over a puncture wound. Expensive, and potentially fatal.
Now, I don't wait - every.
EllenJay
Well-Known Member
This - I tell the receptionist if it is urgent and get a call booked in for that day - or if it's non-urgent schedule a call for later in the week. Mind you - if I need a vet urgently, I am not so fussed about that it has to be Mr XYZ and will have anyone from the practice who is available. I trust all the vets there - the head honcho wouldn't employ them if they were not good!!!
eggs
Well-Known Member
I think Snow Queen has made a valid point. I did't read this as people having vets saying they wouldn't come out but rather an owner who wasn't sure if they needed a vet immediately and had delayed the vet coming out.
I know my vets well and they know I won't phone unless I think there is a real need but they are happy for me to have a chat about what the problem is and make a judgement call from there. Earlier this year I phoned in a panic as one of my horses had completely fractured his jaw (think hanging out of his mouth) and I was sure he was a pts job. Vet arrived, thought he could be saved but would need specialist surgery, took some photos, emailed them to Newmarket and less than an hour later we were on our way - fortunately horse made a complete recovery.
When I was young and had my first pony he came in from the field with a cut. One of the liveries was a vet (not mine) who was on the yard at the time. I went running round to get them, they came, looked at pony only to be told it was only a graze and certainly didn't need a vet.
Now I am older and wiser (been around horses for over 40 years) I have a reasonably good idea as to when I need a vet out but there are a lot of people now who have horses without much experience eg. I KNOW a puncture wound - especially over a joint - needs a vet asap but it can look like a very innocous wound to the less experienced. I think if your vet is happy for you to email them a photo (probably to their phone) it gives them an opportunity to re-arrange their day if it looks like an emergency or to reassure you and make an appointment for a later time/date whilst advising you how to treat in the meantime.
I know my vets well and they know I won't phone unless I think there is a real need but they are happy for me to have a chat about what the problem is and make a judgement call from there. Earlier this year I phoned in a panic as one of my horses had completely fractured his jaw (think hanging out of his mouth) and I was sure he was a pts job. Vet arrived, thought he could be saved but would need specialist surgery, took some photos, emailed them to Newmarket and less than an hour later we were on our way - fortunately horse made a complete recovery.
When I was young and had my first pony he came in from the field with a cut. One of the liveries was a vet (not mine) who was on the yard at the time. I went running round to get them, they came, looked at pony only to be told it was only a graze and certainly didn't need a vet.
Now I am older and wiser (been around horses for over 40 years) I have a reasonably good idea as to when I need a vet out but there are a lot of people now who have horses without much experience eg. I KNOW a puncture wound - especially over a joint - needs a vet asap but it can look like a very innocous wound to the less experienced. I think if your vet is happy for you to email them a photo (probably to their phone) it gives them an opportunity to re-arrange their day if it looks like an emergency or to reassure you and make an appointment for a later time/date whilst advising you how to treat in the meantime.
Pony180
Active Member
I think it's a great tip in today's technological age and gives the vet a chance to prioritise. I had the vet out a week ago (I knew it was a definite vet job with joint fluid flowing freely from wound) who having cleaned up wounds etc then took photos on her phone and texted them to the surgeon who was operating the following morning! If they use this idea between themselves then I am sure they would appreciate us giving as much information as possible
M_G
Well-Known Member
^^^this for me too
putasocinit
Well-Known Member
I think another way of reading the snow queens post is what she is also saying is if you are unable to explain the injury in enough detail for the vet to decide how serious it is, then ask if a picture can be sent to assist in the decision making of the seriousness.
JanetGeorge
Well-Known Member
It's a nice thought - but there is a serious shortage of young vets looking for jobs! (Older vets are already settled in pracice and if they're looking for a job, it may well be that they are NOT good!
Our practice employs at least one newly qualified vet each year - most stay a year or two and then move on to an internship where they can specialise. They lost a VERY good young vet this year who has gone to Rossdales. his replacement qualified this year - and is in her first job (newly qualified vets HAVE to get a job!) Senior partner (who is my 'personal' vet) brings her with him when he comes to me as it is usually a decent sized and varied list of jobs to be done - Wednesday it was 4 lots of teeth, 3 pregnancy scans including a mare who'd been missed with twins at 28 days and only picked up at 56 days. We went for natural regression and Wednesday's scan was to determine if it had worked.) There were also 10 weanlings for tetanus jabs, and a 'wot the hell' case - weight loss preceding the acute symptom - a very badly swollen sheath!
Junior vet did foal jabs (as senior vet is very lame at present - and foals are 'lively') - and did them well. She had a go at scanning under supervision - with Senior vet checking before and after her. She did some dentistry - again with senior vet starting, explaining what the problems were, then handing over to her and checking her work after she'd finished.
She'll be a good vet in a year or two - she's bright, sensible around horses - and listens to the client - and she's getting good supervised practice (there are a lot of jobs - including teeth - which they spend bu**er all time on during University!!) but I certainly wouldn't want her solo if I didn't know what the problem was!
Queenbee
Well-Known Member
This^^^ thank you.... For a while I thought I was speaking a foreign language that no one could understand