Where did EE go wrong in your opinion? if you thought it did!

[ QUOTE ]
When it was running well, it was very good and great spectator viewing. Just such a tragic end to the day which I think has tarred peoples views perhaps not in a clear way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before Cavvy's accident it was like car crash TV - entertaining in the way that thrills and spills videos are entertaining rather than entertaining in the way Badminton is entertaining. After Cavvy's accident it was just horrific and very somber.

This was meant to showcase the sport, not look like something out of You've Been Framed.
 
I dont agree. Alot of the elims were down to people not knowing the course. Watching TPT's horse skating about I admit meant I was very anxious to see them jump off the ground, but I dont think it caused a problem overall. Yes I agree alot of improvements need to be made, but I think it is wrong to right off the event, it was the first time of anything of the sort to be run, and the people completing showed it was acheivable.
 
For those complaining of the short ambulance drive of the sedated adrenalin fueled cavy, if it was my horse and there was the smallest of chance that he could be saved, then I would do the same, only having him pts when I was absolutely sure.

What are you trying to do, make mary feel worse than she already does!

I think they did the right thing.
 
Not complaining about the fact they wanted to get him out of the arena, IMO where they had no screen to cover up what the upper tiers could see, and that JK would have had him filled with sedative/painkillers I dont think that is the issue... what pissed me off a bit though was the time it took when they hadnt realised they needed the extra ramp to get the trailer off the pitch... that was my criticism of it, like I say, I think they did the right thing in taking him off the pitch
 
[ QUOTE ]
I dont agree. Alot of the elims were down to people not knowing the course. Watching TPT's horse skating about I admit meant I was very anxious to see them jump off the ground, but I dont think it caused a problem overall. Yes I agree alot of improvements need to be made, but I think it is wrong to right off the event, it was the first time of anything of the sort to be run, and the people completing showed it was acheivable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Out of 13 non-completions, only 4 were for errors of course. Two were rider/horse falls, two were retirements and the rest (5) were accumulated refusals. Of those errors of course, one was Austin who went wrong because he jumped the way in at 3 which had been switched with the way in at 8 between the course walk last night and the course walk today - forgivable I think as technically he didn't think he was lost!
 
I was there today too, a real tragedy for Mary and connections, my heart goes out to them - truly terrible sight to see such a talented and genuine horse in that situation, and Mary clearly devastated with her with her arms around his neck.

I don't feel qualified to give any answers - Cav had his ears pricked and was jumping out of his skin all the way round that track (which is more than can be said for a lot of others). He looked to be off the 2nd corner and drifting to the right-hand widest part, it was one stretch too far - a genuinely tragic mistake.

I don't think the whole concept of EE is necessarily a bad one - other Eventer's Grand Prix type events have worked well and are great spectator viewing - but yes that only 6 completed in such a top-class field is testament that something went badly wrong today.

Agree with many of you - perhaps a combination of too much technicality / height / atmosphere in that smaller arena/short space of time with riders chasing the time threw both horses and riders. But this event has never been run before and these were all top-class combinations - it must have been difficult for the course-designer to gage just how technical to play it.

Yes I'd agree several riders appeared not to be on the ball (and I'm not suggesting I'd even have the guts or ability to do it!) - but surely you must have your route and lines firmly in place before getting out there - there were too many riders seeming not to know where they were going.

The course seemed to suit nippier horses - Lenamore, Rock Model..and those that attacked fared better - Lucy rode the class round of the day, absolutely spot on - pure class. Ollie was fast, no surprises, but he truly attacked that course and to be fair got Flint back and rode all the combinations superbly, it was just some of the single 'let-Up' fences I felt were slightly on a wing and a prayer and he was pretty lucky not to come a cropper.

Not sure what the answer is, but it certainly won't run again the way it was, and I'd have been gutted to have paid for a ticket. I do feel sorry for Stuart Buntine, what should have come off as a brilliant day's viewing was not a success, and I expect the whole event is in for a slating - Lucinda Green certainly did not seem impressed half-way through, and I have to say my heart was in my mouth watching a good few go round.

I suppose the difference with the event at Hickstead is that the xc fences knock-down? What about the eventer's challenges like the one at Blenheim? Perhaps just not as big / technical?
 
"i was there today and thought it was a great concept but
needed some fine tuning, good for oli but sad for mary, this
was also an accident which could have happened anywhere
and i don't think any blame should be put on EE. it was a
huge loss to the sport and having had it happen to me i
know how mary must be feeling.. please don't write the EE
concept off just yet because i think with fine tuning and
some guidence this could really catch on among to riders
and i for one would really like ago."

I agree. Obviously yesterday was very sad because of the loss of such a brilliant and loved horse, but the concept was brave and creative. I think that the major issue was lack of time for the riders to familiarise themselves with a very demanding test. If you think how many times riders walk the course at Badminton and Burghley. And then how much time they have to prepare psychologically and tactically for it in their minds before they go. This means they should meet each fence with a clear picture of how they will jump it, what they will do if things don't quite go to plan and where they are going next. Everyone knew that it was going to be a 4* challenge but due to the constraints of the venue - they could only start building the course when they took it over from the rugby at 9pm on saturday night-, and the pace of the day, most riders were worrying more about where to go next..there were several eliminations for errors of course as well as a few scenic tours.

I hope that Express Eventing will be able to go forward, having learnt from this experience.
 
i wasn't there but watched the video- it looked pretty tight and there seemed to be a lot of stopping and starting to get to the fences,almost like no matter which way you went there was something in the way.
I also agree that the corner giving way is not acceptable but with regards to Call Again Cavaliers accident, thats what it was, an accident.
In repsonse to dealing with the accident, I have dealt with 3 horses with broken legs at different times and all of which really didn't seem aware that they had an injury as adrenline kicks in.
We also had a horse that broke his leg on the xc course. The vet came and they took him in away in the lorry rather than PTS on site, the reason being was that the horse was on loan to the rider and because the vet couldn't see in writing that the the rider had permission to have the horse PTS they had to take him to the vets and wait to speak to the owner.
The horse was given a large dose of painkiller and sedative to move him.
 
I was there yesterday. Should this event run again I certainly won't be going.

To start with there was no shopping (I don't think you can class what was there as 'shopping'), anyone who knows anything about big horse events would know people like to shop, especially at this time of the year.

The dressage. In my opinion the opinions of a non horsey person plus a proper judge should have been discussed afterwards, not both Arlene and ALW. They became very boring and if it wasn't for listening to Carl's commentry it was a bit of a joke. However I thought the eventers take on dressage to music was interesting. Also I would like to say that it is the best I have ever seen OT ride, both him and the horse looked like a completely different combination to when I have seen them before. So credit where credit is due.

The catering was poor. There wasn't really a range of food available and they ran out of a lot of it before the lunch break actually started.

After watching Jodie Kidd and TPT showjumping I had my heart in my mouth waiting for the Sj'ing and xc to start. I did realise the eventers would be heavily studded, but the surface looked loose and greasy and I wasn't sure how it would hold up.

As for the sjing and xc, well a lot has been posted on this already. I'm sure a lot has been learnt by the organisers, however seeing as the whole thing was supposed to be for 'entertainment', 6 horses finishing out of a possible 19 is NOT entertaining. I found myself dreading the next coming in to start and felt it was an accident waiting to happen.
The whole concept just didn't work, much like the JAS competitions.

There was absolutely no atmosphere, the stadium was perhaps 1/3 full, if that, so there clearly is not enough support for this idea anyway.

So there's my two-penny's worth. As for Call Again Cavalier's accident, it was dreadful and I do feel leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. However even without this I feel that this event should not be repeated.
 
I was there yesterday as well.
I enjoyed the dressage though the comments from ALW and AP did get a bit samey and predictably they most enjoyed the flashier "showbizzy" tests and I would have liked to have heard some technical comment from one of the other judges to give a more balanced view.
We did also notice a few horses seemed to be slipping a bit during the dressage.
The celebrity jump-off was a bit of a farce really - the celebrities had little idea where they were going and TPT looked terrified from the start.
As for the final jumping phase - others have said it better then I could but I agree with SpottedCat, it was car crash TV right from the start and there were far too many "hearts in our mouths" moments for it to be truly entertaining. There were some very good rounds but too many horses just looked overwhelmed. I was sitting by the corner that collapsed and we couldn't understand why the thing was hollow in the middle. The corners were solid but as Mark Todd proved all a horse needed to do was land further towards the centre and it became dangerous.
Other then that the stadium was very empty (though far more people were sitting in the expensive seats then the cheap ones) and lacking in atmosphere. We were trying to clap but it was so cold in there that we weren't going to take our gloves off for anyone.
I also thought that the commentary was highly inappropriate - wittering on about prize money and what a success the whole thing had been while CAC was being loaded into the trailer
frown.gif
mad.gif

We left after Bettina retired as we didn't have the heart to sit through the presentation/lap of honour and judging by the mass exodus towards the train station we weren't the only ones
crazy.gif
 
The two can't possibly be compared but earlier this year my son and a few others on here did an 'eventer trial' an Addington. The arena was crowded with sj and xc jumps and the fastest time won. It was ridiculous, I've never seen so many people fall off! After jumping one skinny log, if you were on a big striding horse you literally landed facing a wall, son had one of the slowest times as said he didn't want to frighten his young horse and said he would never do that again. As someone else said - indoor xc is perhaps not the way to go
frown.gif
 
DrW we must have been sitting very close not sure if you were in the middle or upper tier though. The upper tier our side was a lot fuller than the otherside which I think was a bit misleading as for us our view was a very empty stadium but from the other side it would have looked a lot fuller. We also left as soon as Bettina retired as did everyone round me, none of us had the heart to stay and a lot of us had to get on the Park and ride before 5:30!
 
DrW was sat behind me
grin.gif
We were sat on the middle tier of seats.... it is difficult with the atmosphere in there when the stadium holds 85thousand people....
 
In which case I was above you and you wouldn't have seen the upper tier where I was sitting and the fact it was soo much fuller than the otherside, but still it was rather empty. I go the feeling they put most people our side for the sake of cameras as most seemed to be pointing in our direction so making it seem fuller than it actually was when it will eventually be on TV!!
 
Quote:
I am sorry but I still do not think that it is right to put a horse with a broken leg into a trailer[ if the end is know, which this was]. I have also held horses with broken legs waiting to be pts but I kept them as still as possible . As for comparing breaking your arm with a broken leg is stupid, try doing a hand stand with a broken arm!

[/ QUOTE ]

I only mentioned about the broken arm to illustrate the amazing effect of adrenalin, which I wouldn't have believed if I hadn't experienced it. I wasn't comparing the injuries themselves, obviously.
Nice offensive tone, though, thanks for that.

Horses can walk on 3 legs. I managed to lead (and load into a lorry to take to the vets) a horse on 3 legs who looked as if she had broken her pelvis in the stable overnight (hindleg totally non-weightbearing) who, 3 days later, was proven to have had a thrombosis. She totally recovered and went on to event at Advanced level.
Cavvy was immensely loved as well as being immensely valuable - if there had been any chance at all of saving him, they would have wanted to try it.
Shooting him immediately in the middle of the stadium would, imho, have been far far worse.

I am only saying all this to try to convince the doubters that loading the horse into the trailer, dosed with painkillers and sedatives, was not cruel.
 
That makes sense then - I did wonder if they were going to have to be selective with camera shots of the stands to try to make the place look fuller then it was...
 
I agree Kerilli, I was there yesterday and there is no way they could have shot him in front of all those people, especially not knowing if the patella was actually broken. JK was there in seconds and they managed to lead him up into the trailer very quickly.
 


As far as I'm aware he was sedated straight away and they used a hand held sling to support some of his weight as he was walked onto the trailer. John killingbeck would have done everything in his power to ease cavvy's suffering I can assure you.

[/ QUOTE ]

RobinHood
again comeone not quite understanding what i have written! i was posting this towards people who were saying that he was dragged whinnying into a trailer. that wasnt the case! i wasnt saying anything about that i didnt like the way he wa pts.
 
I dont think people are understanding what i am saying. i was simply stating the fact against people who were saying that cavvy was poorly treated! im nt saying that he was i am s\aying to the people who missjudged it that there was no harm dne and he was sedated and taken away reletively painless
 
,,oh, and ludicrous to have part of the outcome dictated by how quick you can get your kit on!! Why didn't they just allow 45 secs and start clock after that?
As a friend said today, the organisers didn't seem to know whether they were staging a 4* or a pantomime. Sadly they ended up with a tragedy. Cavvy's death did seem so much more gratuitous in the circs than a fall at Badminton, say, because the surroundings were unnatural and the atmosphere, thanks to the inane commentary, was vulgar and showy.
 
I think this has already been said but I found the commentary while they were tending to Call Again Cavalier absolutely appalling - wittering on about the huge prize money and what an exciting competition it had been and how it had claimed a few top scalps.
 
They will be.

Pleased someone has remembered that it is humans behind the whole concept and not just an institution, so CONSTRUCTIVE feedback will be welcome I am sure. Some of the kneejerk/clueless comments dont really help at all (not aimed at anyone in particular, just an observation....)

Express Eventing was thought of a way to showcase what is great about our sport and has been worked on/thought out by people who love the sport. If anyone has any constructive feedback/comments Express Eventing will I am sure be only too pleased to hear them
smile.gif
They will be only too aware of some of the things that went wrong, but the only way things can be improved is if the things that people feel need to be improved are pointed out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top