Where do I go from here? non specific lameness

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tobysg

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My 11 year old horse has somewhat changed over the last two months.

She used to be extremely forward going, love jumping, ping at everything and just be an all round happy, easy horse.

Her symptoms at the moment, which are NOT always there;

-will run around the stable to avoid being tacked up.
-reacting to the girth being fastened
-does not want to canter
-pins her ears back when being asked to move forward, at times.
-point blank refused to jump the other day
-refusing to canter
-not as forward

I called out a Mctimoney practitioner, who said she was very tight in her quarters. This was massaged by her, and advice given to see how she goes, if problems persist, call a vet. She noted she looked unlevel on her left hind slightly but could be due to her being lazy in the trot up.

Prior to this call out, I could not get her to move into a medium trot and she seemed really 'yucky' behind, so I got off, untacked and loose schooled her, so I could see her move. I thought she looked 'odd' in her left hind for a bit. She then wouldn't be caught to come in (for 90 minutes!!!!) and trotted and cantered around the school with her tail in air, looking perfectly sound!

I took things easy and slow and she seemed fine again. A couple of weeks later, I even took her to an affiliated ridden show and she came 2nd with comments about her lovely, flashy paces. We hacked two miles there, which seemed to soften her up.

I have avoided schooling (even prior to the show) and jumping and just been letting her hack out or ride in the fields.

Yesterday, her other rider said she point blank refused to jump anything and didn't want to canter at all, and claimed she looked stiff in her left hind, however she is very inexperienced.

My YO trotted her up this morning after she'd been out all night and thought she was fine.

I came up later and put her on the lunge, I think she looked stiff behind in trot and canter but there is no stand out, specific lameness.

Her behaviour alone is shouting at me that there is something wrong.
I intend to call the vet on Monday to make an appointment. Would it be OTT of me to tell them to bring their Ultrasound machine and their portable Xray machine, in order for them to check her hocks?

Some previous history


She had symptoms of acting in physical pain 3 years ago, she refused to move faster than walk being ridden, would tail swish, look at your legs, pinned back ears, attempted to kick the vet when trying to get her trot! However, the vet could find no lameness whatsoever. She was booked for a full investigation but suddenly became fine again so it was cancelled.

12 months after, she very mildly tied up, then was fine very shortly afterwards.

She is out over night and in during the day.

She is fed alfa a, magnesium calmer and has access to a salt lick.

Had the dentist in July, had the all clear.


Does anyone have any ideas?
Will insurance pay out?
WWYD?
 
Some of the symptoms your describing sound just like a mare I own, she has kissing spines. When your Vet comes out if they are able to xray that area then that will tell you. If not you may have to be referred to an Equine Practice where they have bigger Xray equipment. My mare too had a hind limb lameness due to her carrying herself incorrectly.

We had sold her, she came back to us 4yrs later with this condition. Get a full lameness workup done, your horse is young and it needs investigating. Presumably you are insured so go ahead and get it sorted. Good luck..
 
Equine spinal xrays are far too high dose for a portable Xray machine, so she would need to go them for that. Did you mare display tenderness to her back? Mctimoney lady said she seems absolutely fine until you reach her quarters.

Will insurance pay for a full lameness workup despite there being no specific lameness?

I've not had to make a claim yet so I have no idea how it works, despite having owned her for 5 years!
 
Check your Policy, it should do if your Vet refers you. Investigations need to be done to make a diagnosis. Yes my mare was very tender in her back, doesnt particuarly like her rugs doing, doesnt like being girthed up, turns her back when she sees the tack if shes sore. My Physio comes to her reguarly now and this seems to be one of the most effective ways to keep her comfortable along with keeping her rugged up warm. I just hack her out now. You also need to check the fit of your saddle if you havent done so already.
 
She has a saddle that was custom made for her, back lady said it fits well. I know nothing about saddle fitting, but it looks like it fits and sits beautifully on her.

It looks like the first port of call is the vet. Last time they fobbed me off with a bute trial, to see if it was psychological (:s) . I know my horse well enough to know she is certainly not doing this to be naughty!!
 
I also thought SI pain, however imaging to this area is extremely limited so I know diagnosis will be tricky. A bone scan may be useful to find a hot spot, but not sure whether this will be offered at such an early point of investigation.
 
I personally wouldnt be talked into bute trials, get them to refer you to the Equine Horsepital. I did with my mare when she was on off lame, (other mare by the way) and she ended up with an MRI scan, she had torn the DDFT within her hoof. It would never have been found unless we had gone down this route.
 
If you get a lameness work-up, make sure you get a suspensory block, done separately, ie; different day. There are a few pointers towards PSD in your description
 
tobysg said:
She has a saddle that was custom made for her, back lady said it fits well. I know nothing about saddle fitting, but it looks like it fits and sits beautifully on her.

It looks like the first port of call is the vet. Last time they fobbed me off with a bute trial, to see if it was psychological (:s) . I know my horse well enough to know she is certainly not doing this to be naughty!!
Click to expand...

they are not fobbing you off, they are ruling things out, a bute trial can also highlight mechanical lamness/issues. if you don't trust your vets advice or opinion you need to find one whos opinion you do trust
 
For me absolutly get her scanned. About 2 years ago my mare slipped a couple of times on the cross country (big slips but not falls). Next time I rode her she wouldn't go forwards into trot (not like her at all). Was only very, very slightly 'off' when trotted up, could more hear a 3 beat rather than 2 beats, very little to see if anything at all. On examination there was some puffiness around the fetlock, and a tiny bit of heat in the lower leg but nothing much. Gave her a couple of weeks rest, bute etc but still not coming right. Insisted they scan her 'just to be sure', vets words were ' we won't see any....., tailed off as he discovered a 50% lesion in her DDFT on her hind leg. She's just coming back to work now after several years out to heal and is staying 100% sound so far.
 
She sounds like my horse did before he was diagnosed with kissing spine. How is she after a long holiday to bring back into work?

If you look through my started threads, there's one titled 'what is wrong with this horse' or something, it has some videos of him on the lunge exhibiting that odd stiffness behind - might help you to see if it looks at all similar.
 
It could be any of the above suggestions. If the vets investigate and find any of the above or something else not mentioned then yes, the insurance ought to pay out unless it is, say, tying up since the horse has previous history but it doesn't sound like that anyway and if that were excluded it should be stated on your policy.

I'm dealing with the same sort of problem and went straight for a referral and bone scan. The trouble is the results usually just show up many possibilities and you still have have the worry of whether to look for ulcer and or digestive problems.

A referral is probably your best way forward if you are insured, I wouldn't bother with a bute trial - you know the horse well and you know this pattern of behavior is a direct indicator of pain - but finding which issue is causing the behavior isn't straightforward IME, plus then you meet the dilemma of what, if anything, you can and should do to fix things.
 
Might be easier and cheaper to go directly to an equine hospital for diagnosis? My friend had similar with her mare but had poor facilities at home for a vet to work so went directly to a hospital.

The non specific, intermittent lameness is classic of issues else where. They'll investigate the hocks and hind tendons but they also need to look at bilateral fore lameness, ulcer and, kissing spines and other back pain.
 
tobysg said:
She has a saddle that was custom made for her, back lady said it fits well. I know nothing about saddle fitting, but it looks like it fits and sits beautifully on her.

It looks like the first port of call is the vet. Last time they fobbed me off with a bute trial, to see if it was psychological (:s) . I know my horse well enough to know she is certainly not doing this to be naughty!!
Click to expand...

The bute test is not you being fobbed off. This is a normal test that all vets do with lameness or without. Because it could be behaviour, this is the cheapest way for us to know. If the bute test has already been done, did she improve? If so, ask to take her to the clinic for a full work up and go from there.

hope you get this sorted soon
 
Could be a number of things, all have already been mentioned... From personal experience I have encountered these very symptoms (kissing spine / hock arthritis )

I would defo get vet out and start the investigative work

Hope it's nothing serious
Ps just to say my mare would get better then go downhill then chip and change so just because you have noticed an improvement don't think it's not there!
 
If I were you I would take her to the practice for a lameness work up they should then be able to identify where the pain is coming from, there is only so much they can do on a call out. I do agree that some of the symptoms sound like PSD.
 
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