Where Do I Stand? Breach of Loan Contract

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Hi I loaned my horse out in January, made my own contract from the template on the BHS website and had it signed, etc. I'm going to pick him up in the next fortnight, she handed in her 30 days notice but I was going to give her another week to improve and then take him back anyway.

He's been kept in the filthiest stable while on boxrest for laminitis (he's now sound thankfully) the farmer had words with her about it apparantly but to no avail, apparantly other liveries on the yard have been throwing hay over the door for him as they're unsure if she's turned up that morning, she's lost one of my rugs and claims that she "has everything I gave her" (rubbish, it's in the contract precisely what I loaned to her) and was being incredibly funny about it..

.. she owes me money (first off when she first got him she claimed her boiler had broken down and she couldn't afford his livery for the first 2 weeks, but since I needed him to go there and then, I paid for the 2 weeks), but more in breach of contract, she agreed to pay for his annual jab from the vet, but since he had x-rays done at the same time and I paid for those, the bill was in my name so I had to pay it all off and claim the money from her for the jab (unsuccessful so far), and finally just yesterday she was supposed to be pay for his feet to be trimmed. They were not looking good for the laminitis so I got my old faithful trimmer out and we agreed she would pay the £15 she normally paid her farrier and I'd pay the remainder. Well yesterday she claimed she'd lost her bank card so I paid the full bill.. but his feed were in desperate need of trimming. WELL overdue.

And finally, after all the anguish about his rug and money, etc, the icing on the cake which meant none of that mattered. A livery told me that she (the loanee) knew that the vet had said my horse had to stay in on boxrest, I told her: short, steady walks in-hand only. And apparantly she was riding him around the school in walk >_> I'm SO furious. He had laminitis!! And she got on him and rode him around!!

I have not told her that I know this yet as I feel I need to have him safely in the lorry away from her before I explode. She already threatened that "I could take him back sooner" e.g she'll stop looking after him because I was being "funny" about my rug being missing!! She knows I can't take him back until after the 14th because I am at university.

Sorry this is so long, I just needed to spill everything. What I want to know is, where do I stand on everything?
I care more about the rug, as I need a new one and it was a good one, and of course on the fact she got on him when he was ill when she knew he had to be resting >:( I'm disgusted with her.
As for the money, it's an issue but I just want him home safely and justice to be done against her. If the money was gotten off her I'd happily donate all the money to a horse charity (and buy my guy a new rug).
 
Clearly the horse needs collecting this weekend, first off.

Secondly - I'd put it down to experience. If she has no money then you can't sue.
 
I think she's clearly breached a number of the loan terms. In terms of rectification, the horse can come home but it really sounds as if you might have to put the rest down to experience. It really isnt worth court action for the amounts involved here, and will cost more than the money.

The one thing is the rug. Rugs are huge, they cant be 'lost'. Since she signed a list of the things she had, she should replace it. But Im not sure its worth the effort of trying to get her to pay as it doesnt sound like she will. I would concentrate on getting her to look properly for it.

Thank goodness for the other liveries looking out for your horsie.
 
amymay said:
Clearly the horse needs collecting this weekend, first off.

Secondly - I'd put it down to experience. If she has no money then you can't sue.
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I can't :( I'd love to have taken him home yesterday but a) I don't have a lorry/trailer, but I'm organising transport for when I am able to fetch him b) I can't afford for him to go on full livery while I'm away c) I'm at uni until the 14th so I can't move home to look after him until then.

He's now going out in the field on half days so he thankfully won't be in as much, but I have the liveries and the farmer keeping an eye on him for me.
 
How much money does she owe you first of all?

If it's a reasonable amount then you could make a small claim against her.
 
JackDaniels1 said:
How much money does she owe you first of all?

If it's a reasonable amount then you could make a small claim against her.
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£50 for the livery, £60 for the callout fee and jab (she agreed to that) and £15 for the trim.

So a total of £125. PLUS a rug costing about £50 when new.
 
Bloomin people hey. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. At least your getting your boy home safe and sound though.

Such a shame as it puts people of loaning and not everyone who wants to loan a horse is a numpty! O well, it's always the minority spoiling it for everyone else.

Riding a horse with lami though. What planet was she on?
 
Sadly I think you have to chalk this up to experience. Did you vet the home at all prior to loaning your horse out? I have had bad loan experiences, and always vetted the homes thoroughly, but it still happens. With regards to money, I think you can probably wave that goodbye - even if you try and pursue it through small claims, you will be very lucky to actually get anything back, even if you won, and it would cost your more money in the long run. The last pony I got back from loan returned without her bridle, saddle, rugs - all I got back was an exercise sheet and a full size headcollar (she is a 13.2hh pony and the headcollar didn't come close to fitting, they had looped it around her neck in the trailer!). This home was vetted, and the loaners are well known on the showjumping circuit and compete at olympia every year!! So, in terms of a lost rug and a bit of cash, I think you will just have to swallow it (unpleasant I know) and make sure you get your horse back safely. To be brutally honest (and please don't take offence) I would be suspicious of any loan home willing to take on a lamanitic horse that could not be ridden - there are lots of good, sound loan horses and cheap horses to buy out there. I personally would not loan a horse with an exisiting condition, for fear of what might happen, but obviously I don't know your circumstances etc so cannot judge. Sorry it all went wrong for you, and I hope you get your horse back safely.
 
Get the horse back. Write her a 14 day letter asking for a reimbursement saying that if she doesn't respond within 14 days you will have no alternative but to make a small claim against her. If she doesn't reply, then it is up to you whether you want to actually take it to the small claims court or not.
 
jesstickle said:
Bloomin people hey. Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. At least your getting your boy home safe and sound though.

Such a shame as it puts people of loaning and not everyone who wants to loan a horse is a numpty! O well, it's always the minority spoiling it for everyone else.

Riding a horse with lami though. What planet was she on?
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Thanks, yeah I'll be extactic to have him home ^^

I know :\ I already had a not great impression of her at first but I thought noo, give her a chance, she might surprise me :| more than that it turns out...!
I may put him on loan in the future but this time since I'm graduating this summer I have all the time in the world to vet people and make sure I've got a good person who knows what they're doing this time. Last time I was struggling to get him on loan 'cause he's a fizzy one, and I had uni and I knew I couldn't cope with both so I just had to trust her :s
 
zoeshiloh said:
To be brutally honest (and please don't take offence) I would be suspicious of any loan home willing to take on a lamanitic horse that could not be ridden - there are lots of good, sound loan horses and cheap horses to buy out there. I personally would not loan a horse with an exisiting condition, for fear of what might happen, but obviously I don't know your circumstances etc so cannot judge. Sorry it all went wrong for you, and I hope you get your horse back safely.
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No offence taken ^^
She knew he had it but he'd only had it once last summer mildly. He never had been "lame" lame. The only way we picked up on it was because he was slightly off balance in trot and tender footed on gravel. He went to her 100% sound. It just happened when spring hit.
 
I had to sell my boy to go to uni. Even though it was great fun being there it isn't massively compatible with horses! I'm always envious of people who's mum steps in and does their horse whilst they're away. Lucky sods

FWIW after uni the first horse I had was on loan and I treated her like a princess (and shes a right madam too) so better luck next time :)
 
Whether or not you can take her to small claims will depend on the terms of the contract. There is no point racking up legal fees over what is - in legal terms at least - a very small amount. A good solicitor will charge more per hour than the debt!

The rug I'm afraid you'll have to write off. They are what would legally be considered disposeable items. If you were able to prove she had sold it for gain then you could possibly reclaim the sum she received for it. But other than that rugs wear out.

The small claims proceedure is very simple and you could eaily manage it yourself. But be prepared for her not to turn up, you to win and for her just to ignore you and refuse to pay. Unless you can take her to a county court (which will cost too much) there is no penalty to her if she just ignores you.

Another line you might consider... her actions may well constitute mistreatment of an animal and as such perhaps (once you have him back!) you could report the matter to the RSPCA. I know they are not always the greatest but they might sniff around what would be for them an easy win with no costs. The ILPH / WHW might also assist. I see you are based in the South East - I don't know where but Ted Barnes covers much of the SE for WHW and he is great.

If you are close to surrey and need transport pm me. We might be able to help.
 
Shay said:
Whether or not you can take her to small claims will depend on the terms of the contract. There is no point racking up legal fees over what is - in legal terms at least - a very small amount. A good solicitor will charge more per hour than the debt!

The rug I'm afraid you'll have to write off. They are what would legally be considered disposeable items. If you were able to prove she had sold it for gain then you could possibly reclaim the sum she received for it. But other than that rugs wear out.

The small claims proceedure is very simple and you could eaily manage it yourself. But be prepared for her not to turn up, you to win and for her just to ignore you and refuse to pay. Unless you can take her to a county court (which will cost too much) there is no penalty to her if she just ignores you.

Another line you might consider... her actions may well constitute mistreatment of an animal and as such perhaps (once you have him back!) you could report the matter to the RSPCA. I know they are not always the greatest but they might sniff around what would be for them an easy win with no costs. The ILPH / WHW might also assist. I see you are based in the South East - I don't know where but Ted Barnes covers much of the SE for WHW and he is great.

If you are close to surrey and need transport pm me. We might be able to help.
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Thankyou I will hang onto those links and see what I can do :)

Thanks for the offer but unfortunately we're about 150 miles North of you!
 
Oh, how dreadful for you. From a simple point of view, I would take all responsibility away from her due to her incompetence and breach and kindly ask the YO or a fellow horseowner on the yard to take care of until you can collect. I am sure they understand your predicament and will help out.

You should be able to beg or borrow a rug and can probably pick one up cheaply somwhere.

I would not over burden yourself with trying to sue, etc and put this sorry episode behind you.

I wish you well and if I were closer (am on the South coast) I would help x
 
I'm really sorry for your bad experience. Not all loanees are like that but I would like to express my concern that you loaned your horse to someone that couldn't even afford the first months livery. I'm sorry but boiler breaking or no boiler breaking I'd be concerned that she had no back up finances in place to cover such circumstances.

Re the rug, thats the least of your worries. Its a piece of fabric. Your duty of care is to your horse and if I were you I would instruct her to have nothing more to do with your horse and employ the farmer or someone at the yard he is at to care for him until you have the means to go up and fetch him.

unless you want to go through the small claims procedure and or prosecution for neglect (which would be hard to prove) the costs of which both outweigh the possible financial gain, I would just be satisfied at getting your horse back in one piece.
 
Your duty of care is to your horse and if I were you I would instruct her to have nothing more to do with your horse and employ the farmer or someone at the yard he is at to care for him until you have the means to go up and fetch him.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
No wonder you need to let it all out on here, better doing it that way than giving her any more reason to cause more problems, last thing you want is her taking it out on your horse by not looking after him properly (well any less than she has done already which isn’t much!), until you collect him.

Sorry but I’d be collecting him asap, clearly she doesn’t have the knowledge, money or any respect or love for the horse, hopefully someone on here (fingers crossed) can possibly help you out and get him home fo you.

If it was me, I'd wouldnt be bothered about the money so much, just getting him back safe and sound and put the dreadful experience behind you.
 
Ehmm, I won't repeat what others have said re. putting this down to experience, BUT yeah, it sounds like this is a classic case of how things can go wrong.

Re. your claim against her, you might possibly succeed in the Small Claims Court; however you'd need to remember the old adage "he who goes to court pays the price", so if you were successful, you still might be out of pocket, if you see what I mean.

First I think you need to get your horse away from that situation PDQ; that is your first priority - and then I think you need to think about what you will do with him in future coz I presume you will be looking to place him somewhere so you can continue your studies? Perhaps there is a livery yard near your uni where you could put him? Then you could see him regularly/at weekends or whatever to make sure he's OK?

This is just a suggestion, and one that wouldn't work in every situation; but there are various colleges around the country that do equine studies as part of their curriculum and they are apparently crying out for horses on a loan basis during term-time. There are certain criteria normally, i.e. 15hh+ and suitable for use on working livery doing BHS lessons and stuff, but they might take something which is green so they could school it on a bit. I did this with mine coz for various reasons I couldn't deal with him at home and its worked out fine; appreciate its not everyone's choice but it might be one solution you could think about? That way he'd be in expert hands during termtime and you could have him back for the hols. Anyway, just a thought. If you like, PM me if you need to know more about working livery and how it could work.
 
CBFan said:
I would like to express my concern that you loaned your horse to someone that couldn't even afford the first months livery. I'm sorry but boiler breaking or no boiler breaking I'd be concerned that she had no back up finances in place to cover such circumstances.
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This would have rang alarm bells for me too. These things happen but if you have a horse they still need the livery paid plus all the other expenses that come with horse ownership.
I totally agree that if you can't move your horse sooner you need to get someone responsible to look after him until you can get him back next week.
As for the cost - it might be worth writing a stongly worded letter threatening to take action, but if they still don't pay up (and to be honest it doesn't sound like they will / can) I think you will just have to put it down to experience.
 
Personally, once your horse is home safe and out of her care I would bring up the money she owes you. Most likely she is going to make up some excuse and not pay, given her previous behaviour. But no point in not asking.

I'm afraid it's just not worth the money to pursue for this size of claim in the courts (never mind the stress that it involves). As other people have already said, even if you are successful (and with the courts nothing is certain), you may still need to go through the whole process of enforcing the judgment, and therefore it is still not certain you would get your money back. I'm afraid that I would suggest just doing as all the others have suggested and put it down to experience. :(
 
CBFan said:
I'm really sorry for your bad experience. Not all loanees are like that but I would like to express my concern that you loaned your horse to someone that couldn't even afford the first months livery. I'm sorry but boiler breaking or no boiler breaking I'd be concerned that she had no back up finances in place to cover such circumstances.

Re the rug, thats the least of your worries. Its a piece of fabric. Your duty of care is to your horse and if I were you I would instruct her to have nothing more to do with your horse and employ the farmer or someone at the yard he is at to care for him until you have the means to go up and fetch him.

unless you want to go through the small claims procedure and or prosecution for neglect (which would be hard to prove) the costs of which both outweigh the possible financial gain, I would just be satisfied at getting your horse back in one piece.
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I totally agree with this......I'm sorry how things turned out OP but never would I have let someone take my horse when they couldnt afford his livery.

You have been very trusting, and I think she has taken you for a ride, possibly knowing how you needed the horse to be out on loan quickly for Uni. Chalk up the financial loss to experience, get the horse back when you can and forget the whole sorry incident.

There are wonderful loaners out there, don't let it put you off.

Chin up:)
 
We had a similar experience last year with a girl claiming t know the world (sis actually believed her) and we let him move to another yard. After a few weeks we got a call she didnt want him anymore come get him straight away. We had the loan agreement but she was refusing to look after him from the weekend (got the call on the wed) So my sister arranged transport to pick him up on the sat. When we got there he was covered in quite bad cuts and scabs which she coudlnt explain (so wasnt there when we went) and he was upto his knee's in sh*t poor feet etc. I called he girl about all of this to just get a mouth full of her and her boyfriend. Spoke to a few people on the yard who said they hardly seen her she could not control him to ride (always in a snaffle wit us) and she just used to whip him kick him the lot!!!
So we mucked out the stable he was in and got him ready to load and would he go in no way tried for about 1 1/2 hours and he got so stressed we had to leave him and come back in the next day or two. From then the girl refused to do him we could find hardly any of his stuff and she owed livery. YO pulled us about it and we contacted her and she refused to pay it. We agree'd if she never came to pay before we came to pick him up we would settle it. Anyway my sis had to travel an hours drive every day to sort the pony out till we could get someone to get him for us and she finally paid her bill the night before we left.

Sorry for the long post this just really puts me off loaning anything out now
 
Hi,
Can only say im sorry to hear this and i totally empathise having been in the same situation start of january not only is it heartbreaking but when your not there and at uni its even worse! thankfully you have him sorted now best of luck xx
 
Quote:
Your duty of care is to your horse and if I were you I would instruct her to have nothing more to do with your horse and employ the farmer or someone at the yard he is at to care for him until you have the means to go up and fetch him.
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I couldn't agree more.
amymay said:
I couldn't agree more.
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This is exactly what I just organised this morning!
They didn't do full livery but the farmer said his daughter would do him for the next fortnight and I'm going to pay them for their kindness :) I'm so happy now!

Even more fun, I text the ex-loanee about her finishing up tonight, and she was Not happy because the control has been taken from her ;)

I still won't mention the money subject until he's home as she still may be at the yard riding another horse. I don't even know if I'll bring it up but I'll look into it later. Thankyou everyone for your messages :)
 
This is exactly what I just organised this morning!
They didn't do full livery but the farmer said his daughter would do him for the next fortnight and I'm going to pay them for their kindness I'm so happy now!
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Perfect. Let us know how you get on.
 
Really really sorry to hear how badly loaning out your horse has turned out for you. But that is fantastic news about the farmer and his daughter taking the horse into their care untill you get your horse home.
Last year i spent most of the year looking for a horse to have on loan but to no avail. I live in the middle of nowhere. I couldnt understand why in all of the loans on offer the horse had to stay at its current yard etc.
I bought my own horse in march this year, as living where i do, the nearest town with a yard with horses for share/loan was 45 mins drive away....which because of my job i couldnt do.
When i got my horse i joined this forum as i had been out of the horsey world for a bit and i am completely shocked at how many horror stories there are of people loaning out their horses and the person who has them on loan treating the horse ln a way that is completely unnacepptable. I would never dream of treating any animal like that....even more so someone elses. Its disgusting. But now i really do understand why most loans/shares are to stay at current yard and i think if i was to loan out my horse i would probably do the same.
These hideous people spoil it for the rest of us who would treat a horse with the utmost care and respect, and they also spoil it for the owners that need to loan their horse out whether its for a short time or long term as they cant trust that it will be cared for in the manner that it should.

Keep us posted on how your horse is once its home, so sorry to hear of your bad experience, hope you have a lovely summer with your horse and find someone who will treat it like royalty.
 
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