Where do i stand legally with mis sold horse?

Okay the old owner lied, possibly because they wanted to buy a horse ready to compete on. So they passed the problem to you. Seems to me you don't have a chance with the old owner but you fo with the horsr with a bit of work and patience once you and the horse earn each others trust. You would have to do this with most horses anyway. I hope you manage to keep each other.
 
Two weeks is not long & he may not have been mis sold. Have you spoken to previous owners? If they are decent & care about him they will want to help you resolve the issue.
If they aren't bothered I'm not sure how you stand.
 
Just read more. Maybe he's been over jumped or associates the ring with being kicked, ridden too fast and just an unpleasant experience. Why not do flat work only for a while and go back to basics with jumping or loose jump him. Hope you sort something out for your sake & his
 
If you do want to keep him, get a professional to work through his problem with the show ring. This in turn will make him more saleable, should you decide to part with him.

In the meantime, enjoy him at home. Set up a fake show ring there and see how he goes; maybe you can desensitise him. As posted, take him to shows and just have a picnic with him:)

I doubt that the seller will take him back. Probably be more financially viable to keep him or sell him on yourself.
 
wonkey_donkey said:
Sorry but it's obvious that this is not a 'settling in' issue at all.
It's more than obvious that this horse is ring sour and is a seasoned napper. I doubt he means to be nasty but something has obviously caused him to switch off and he no longer wants to jump in the ring.
From what you have said about the videos you watched of him jumping with the old owners again it should have been obvious to you that he was a napper due to them having to get after him past the gate and keep him moving around the course.
It is also clear they have indeed 'got rid' because of his behaviour at shows no doubt.
There is usually a key to ring sour nappers and by the sounds of it the previous owners learned to deal with it a bit by using spurs, cantering strongly into the ring and keeping him moving for the whole round. You may find your own little naks that help too.
Like others have said I would get yourself some professional tuition, try and sweeten him up with some hunting etc, or just part x him with a dealer if you dont want the hassle.
From a sale return point of view I would say you dont have a leg to stand on. All the signs were there but it appears you missed them.
Hope you get it sorted though.

PS, it amazes me how many people on here think really obvious deep seated behaviour is due to 'settling in'. How on earth do people think competition horses cope with regularly moving from yard to yard with new riders, or staying at strange showgrounds etc cope. If they all played up due to 'settling in' they would never win a penny !!!
Click to expand...

How rude ^ you are fully entitled to your opinion but to comment like this is unneccessary.
 
It may be, OP, that this horse might come right for you - he sounds like a sweetheart in all other aspects.

Can you spend the summer doing fun stuff with him? Hacking, sponsored rides, Riding club events etc. such as pairs cross country. And then a bit of hunting next autumn and winter.

Whilst you may have been fobbed off - such a sweet sounding horse may turn the corner with the right handling and a sympathetic owner.
 
OK fair enough...I took it as rude because of the way you commented about other peoples responses, your opinion on this makes sense but I was a little shocked that you slated other peoples opinions.

Maybe I just got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning!
 
wonkey_donkey said:
From what you have said about the videos you watched of him jumping with the old owners again it should have been obvious to you that he was a napper due to them having to get after him past the gate and keep him moving around the course.
Click to expand...
W_D, I think you could have been more diplomatic ............ I think the OP was an innocent [as we all are at some stage], and she was honest about what she wanted, so the vendor took advantage.
 
I cannot be certain but i think i may know the people you got him off due to riding club involvement and without going into their personel life i can assure you they did have to sell due to fiances , they also sold their box and yes decided to buy a youngster to bring on got it cheap ,said horse was competed very sucessfully by the owner a fifteen year old girl and always in the ribbons he has an amazing jump ,so if he is the same horse there is nothing underhand or sinister behind the sale ,from what you have said everything they have told you is the truth ,I hope things can be sorted and he wil be back on form soon
 
wonkey_donkey said:
Yes exactly, people do lie and take advantage when selling horses, that's why you need to be right on the ball or take someone experienced and objective with you.

As the law say's 'let the buyer beware', so although it's sad when people are mis-sold, the buyers must also take some responsibility for their choices too.

On the odd occasion when I have bought 'a lemon' I've took it on the chin and blamed myself.

It's the horse I mainly feel sorry for in this case ...............
Click to expand...

It's obviously how people read and interpret the replies...see I didn't think wonky was being rude! I do agree it does not sound like a settling in issue but something there before. If OP leaves it she will weaken her case so also agrees she needs to start the ball rolling. I would also consider wha this horse is worth WITH this issue and if nothing else, look to get that difference back. unfortunately it will not be easy but if she doesn't try she won't get anything anyway..
 
Golly, a tricky one. On the one hand, the horse hasn't had long to settle in, a lot depends on the skill and experience of the rider. I'd also be looking at the recent performance record - if I wanted a showjumping schoolmaster, I'd damned well make sure it had a very recent good record at BSJA (ie double clears at whatever level I wanted to jump at in the last month). This is free to check for BSJA members and for non-members very easy to check. And even then I'd drop it down one or two levels initially ie if it was jumping Newcomers/1.10s I'd start off with 90cm and even 80cm Opens.

OTOH I don't like the rearing. It depends on how highthough, whether its just napping type rearing or vertical balancing on the hind legs threatning to go over rearing.

But a lot of good horses do have to be ridden FORWARDS, particularly with a new rider.

It also depends on whether the new owner wants to take legal action, or hope to persuade the sellers to take him back. If the former, you look at things like price, the experience of the buyer, any expert they had present to advise them, etc.. Though the duty on the seller to look after the buyer will be much lower if they didn't sell in the course of business. However if there is misrepresentation of the horse, then "sold as seen" might not apply. It depends so much on the individual circumstances of each case.

OP, I'd really start off by examining the recent BSJA record of this horse. You say its a Grade C, so it must have one, unless its no winnings or double clears. What does it say?
 
You havent had the horse long,neither did the previous owners, he is probably feeling very lost an insecure.

Even if they did know about this problem.
He ticks all the other boxes and passed s getting.
The problem could be worked on.
Gain his test and let him settle.
 
Agree with other post's I'm afraid, you have not had the horse long, and havent had time to build up a good partnership.

If it was a private sale, you do not have any rights to "send the horse back". Where is the vendor supposed to keep it for a start! If it has genuinely been mis-sold, you are only really likely to be entitled to the difference in value that you paid for the horse, and the value of the horse you have now.

It's not worth the hassle for you to go to a solicitor. It will cost you money, and just cause you stress and grief. If the horse was a killer monster maniac lunatic, maybe different.
 
vieshot said:
If hes so perfect at home then just take the pressure off him! Take him to a show and just graze him in-hand, maybe ride him round the warm up arena when you have been there a while, let him have a dinner tied to the trailer. Fun things! Sounds like competing has just been a forced, negative experience for him. If hes such a honey at home then im sure it wont take long to fix :)
Click to expand...

Good idea. Suppose you could get him re-schooled??????
 
Sorry, another one here that says just give the horse time to settle.

He is in a new enviroment and, ok so working good at home. But he still wont have full confidence in you at home let alone taking him out and about. I think to get a new horse and be out competing in within the month you really need to be a very good experienced rider (either that or just be prepared for what ever the horse throws at you and be happy to work on it) If he is everything you wanted at home there is no reason why this can not be transfered to trips out and about, with time.

I have just bought myself a new horse. He has been home with me now for just over 2 weeks. I have had him rear (several times), drag me backwards through the field gate want to get all flirty with the girlies, with me still attached! Yet when i tried him he was as laid back as anything! But I have seen glimpses of this laid back horse over the past week as he gets more settled with me and his new home. So I know that horse is still in there somewhere, he is a little scared right now. It all takees time :)

Good luck, hope you decide to do the right thing to have the best outcome for you and the horse xx
 
Going back to your original question. Even if you are a private buyer if the horse has been mis-represented which in this case it clearly has you can take action against the owner and recover the cost and any expenses incurred. You will need a copy of the original advert and get whoever came with you to write down exactly what was asked and said.
You can then either instruct a solicitor or go through the small claims court.
If you are a Gold Member of the BHS then you can also contact their legal advice line (would be worthwhile joining just for this benefit).
 
I'm with wonkey_donkey on this. An unsettled horse could be tricky away from home, but this one didn't cause any concern until in the ring itself.
Of course, we have only one side of the story, but isn't it always the case? So, on the basis of your description, OP, I would be taking legal advice and asking the seller to take the horse back and refund my money.
Yes, I'm sure you could have the horse re-schooled, you could work on him yourself and you could ditch competing, too, BUT you shouldn't have to. You set out to buy a straightforward competition horse and got not exactly that, you asked specific questions and simply got mislead if not just blatantly lied to.
 
pippy91 said:
Also, yes they took him away competing, i have checked his records. I have seen pictures in videos ( i know you can't always trust them as you don't know when they were from) On the videos he was always going fast around the course and i noticed they really kicked him past the gate, which is where he napped and reared with me. I was later told when i contacted them that he had to be jumped in spurs. I was not told this when viewing him, and i did ask did he need them ora whip at any times. If he needs fast cantered all the time this isnt what i was looking for and shouldnt they of told me this when i viewed him.
Click to expand...

Did you not ask to see the horse out competing before you bought him? At the end of the day, you saw in the videos that they "really kicked" him past the gate, why didnt you pick up on it then and ask them about it? It sounds like this is a quirk of the horse and they've learnt a way to deal with it therefore dont see it as any issue. Personally, I'd ask the seller to ride the horse at a competition so she can show you how its done. Some horses have a "knack" to the way their ridden. If its simply a case of kicking him on a bit going past the gate (which TBF a lot of horses seem to have issues with) then that's not a major big deal really? At the end of the day, just because they didnt tell you he needed to be jumped in spurs and there was a way to get him going - it would have been up to you to ask I'm afraid.
 
I agree with those saying it sounds like you may have been mis-sold him which is a shame. Yes he doesn't know you and may be settling but it sounds like the previous owners were aware there was an issue.

I'd seek some advice and get something in writing formally to the previous owners ASAP stating the issues, your position etc and that you will be taking the matter further. If it were me I'd send a solictors letter but of course this costs money with no guarentee you're going to get anywhere.

In the mean time see what your instructor says and then perhaps try taking him to school at different venues to see if this helps. It sounds like competing has been made into an unpleasant experience for him and hence the reaction. This of course doesn't help you but after your instructor has taken a look then they may be able to advise you on how "fixable" the situation is.

Having been mis-sold a horse for hubby that nearly ended up with him breaking his back then I sympathise.
 
calon said:
I cannot be certain but i think i may know the people you got him off due to riding club involvement and without going into their personel life i can assure you they did have to sell due to fiances , they also sold their box and yes decided to buy a youngster to bring on got it cheap ,said horse was competed very sucessfully by the owner a fifteen year old girl and always in the ribbons he has an amazing jump ,so if he is the same horse there is nothing underhand or sinister behind the sale ,from what you have said everything they have told you is the truth ,I hope things can be sorted and he wil be back on form soon
Click to expand...

It might be worth PM'ing the OP, so that you can confirm whather or not you are thinking of the same horse.
 
no idea on the legal side but one thing that i don't think has been asked or mentioned is how experienced are you, the horse appears to have been successfully competed previously so i'm wondering how old the previous owner is and whether you have mis-bought rather than the horse being mis-sold?
 
Ibblebibble said:
no idea on the legal side but one thing that i don't think has been asked or mentioned is how experienced are you, the horse appears to have been successfully competed previously so i'm wondering how old the previous owner is and whether you have mis-bought rather than the horse being mis-sold?
Click to expand...
I have not trawled through every post, but it seems clear to me that the OP is not an experienced buyer, otherwise she would not be looking for a schoolmaster type.
I don't know why anyone on here should take the "side" of the vendor, who has given no guarantee, and has not taken the animal back.
If I wanted a nice horse to do a bit of fun type competing, I would not expect to "wear spurs and crack on at a fast canter" when competing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top