Where do i stand legally with people coming into my field?

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Showjump145

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Hi all, I am new to the forum so hello everyone. I hope this post is in the right place. So here's my question...

Where would I likely I stand legally if someone(adult, child or dog) climbs through or over my post and rail fence with secure and padlocked gate into my paddock and gets injured by one of my horses? There is no public right of way into the field and the people have been told to not let the dog into the field and not to climb on or through the fence and go in with the horses and warned that horses are powerful animals and can be dangerous if you don't what you are doing. My current horses are very well behaved but I have a yearling colt coming next week so of course I am now a little concerned since youngsters can be unpredictable. I do not want to start a war with my new neighbors (I am the new party) but I want my horses to be safe, not be potentially terrorized by a bloody unruly dog who's owners clearly have very little control over the animal...particularly when it's off the lead! ie little to no recall, jumping up, play nipping...that sort of thing). I also don't want to see children getting hurt or worse. They seem reasonable when I have spoken about it to them in the short time we have been here and the few times I have seen them but I know it still happens when I am not there as I find dog poo in the paddock. Also I am not renting land for others to climb in and walk their dog round as they please.

It is worth pointing out that one of my horses, though i have worked hard to build her confidence, is not reliably calm around dogs as has been attacked before(this was mentioned to the people). I am making the fence more 'people proof'(funny as initially I was more worried about keeping horses in and never thought for one minute I'd be needing to keep adults, children and dogs out!) and have ordered some 4ft netting to go on the outside so the dog is not as easily able to get in and will be electrifying the top though that will be going on the inside so in theory they could still climb on the outside. I don't want my fence breaking either as just spent good money on installing it and it is there to keep my horses in their paddock where they are safe.

My initial thought is that it would be their own stupid fault for going onto private property...trespassing if you will, and got injured as a result and that I would not be liable but then again we have all herd the crazy story of the bloke who robbed someone's house by climbing thorough the kitchen window and cut himself on a knife left point side up on the draining board and who sued the house owner!

Ultimately I want to nip this behavior in the bud before it gets out of hand or someone gets injured, but of course I would like to do it in a diplomatic way so as not to sour a new neighborly relationship since I intend on being there long term as do they.

I understand no one can give legal advice but wondered if anyone has had to deal with this situation before? Be interesting to hear your stories, views, how you handled a situation like this etc
 
You'll probably want to be put a few 'Private Property No Access' signs (or of that ilk) on your gate and along your fence line. Can't play dumb and claim they never knew then if someone does get hurt.
A security camera can be a great deterrent too, and associated 'Warming CCTV signs'.

Interested to hear of the legalities though, as we've had similar issues, until I put barbed wire on the gates, CCTV front and back, and a truck load of Keep out signs haha.
 
I'd be getting additional fencing (tornado fence, chicken wire etc) to ensure dogs cannot get in. Also, putting a line of electric fence wire along the top. Yes, it will cost, but will keep most out apart from the most determined.
I'd speak to neighbours, explain that you dont want trespassing on your property, nor pets straying onto the land as they will be liable for any damages to livestock.
Speak to them 1st. Advise you will be putting up covert cctv cameras too.
 
Agree with above - signs, cameras, something to stop the dog going thru the post/rail sections, and take photos of when it is done - clearly showing the before ( now ) and after ( signs, netting/tornado, warnings, CCTV signs and so on ) so that they can not say they didn't know. Document when, where, and what was said to them, and who (adult ) was present. I would also go back to them once more and explain they may see signs, new netting fencing etc, and this is simply to make sure everyone - them, you, dogs and horses stay safe. I would also chuck in mention of how dogs have been injured / killed by a blow from a hoof, when a dog has been in the field and trespassing ( don't mention dog attacking horses - they won't want to hear that, and will be sure to think that their dog won't, therefore it won't apply to them ) and also cases where dogs have chased or spooked horses, and caused injury, which the dog owner was then liable for the cost of.

If you are renting the land, was it the landowner who asked them not to use the field ? Perhaps they have got used to being able to use it as a free garden, and need more of a reminder that it isn't available anymore. Mentioning that you regularly poo pick, and have other people check your horses in their field at times during the day when you may not be there, will also help deter them. And mention the cameras. A lot. I had an issue of a neighbour chucking garden and other waste into a field of mine - started with grass clippings, escalated to general garden waste, food waste and so on. I took a photo of him doing it, printed it onto paper, put it in a plastic envelope and pinned it to the fence where he chucked the stuff. Didn't happen again !

Mostly, enjoy having a new place to keep your horses :)
 
We covered this aspect of law as part of my degree bizarrely (business!) And they cannot bring civil preceding if they are hurt during the act of breaking the law. They could try to bring criminal charges against you but I would imagine the police would laugh them out of the station. Re signs you can have keep out but nothing warning of dangers as that alters liability. Good luck keeping them out, people are retarded at times.
 
I’m not clear if you are talking about the general public or just your neighbours ? If the problem is the neighbours then maybe they’ve been using the field before you rented it ....was it empty before you came along ? Have you tried a friendly chat with them and if so maybe they need another chat especially as a yearling colt is appearing. I would try the diplomatic route first.
 
Thank you both of you:-) Yes I did mention I have wire on order and am installing additional electric fencing(just waiting for it to arrive). Barbed wire on the gates is a good idea.Great idea about the signs. I have explained to them and they are so nice and seemingly compliant then it happens again. Its nuts! I shouldn't have to fork out extra to keep their dog where it should be but needs must. I am tempted to put electric on outside of my fence too since it is still within the boundary of what I rent. I absolutely do not want the kids climbing on the fencing either which they wouldn't be able to do if there was a wire along the middle and top rails but not sure where I'd stand legally with electric being on the outside of the fence if anything happened to the kids because of it. Maybe barbed wire then...gosh its supposed to be a horse paddock not fort knox!:'D

I looked into covert cameras last night and found some great ones...not sure if i have legally have to put signs up or not(not much point in them being covert then is there) They are actually wildlife cameras so I guess so long as they only film along my fence line I could say they were there for monitoring wildlife or even monitoring the horses themselves. I understand they would be liable for damage to my horses and property but where I would stand if they or their dog got kicked and injured by any of my horses?

Really appreciate your swift replies.
 
BaroqueHorse said:
Thank you both of you:-) Yes I did mention I have wire on order and am installing additional electric fencing(just waiting for it to arrive). Barbed wire on the gates is a good idea.Great idea about the signs. I have explained to them and they are so nice and seemingly compliant then it happens again. Its nuts! I shouldn't have to fork out extra to keep their dog where it should be but needs must. I am tempted to put electric on outside of my fence too since it is still within the boundary of what I rent. I absolutely do not want the kids climbing on the fencing either which they wouldn't be able to do if there was a wire along the middle and top rails but not sure where I'd stand legally with electric being on the outside of the fence if anything happened to the kids because of it. Maybe barbed wire then...gosh its supposed to be a horse paddock not fort knox!:'D

I looked into covert cameras last night and found some great ones...not sure if i have legally have to put signs up or not(not much point in them being covert then is there) They are actually wildlife cameras so I guess so long as they only film along my fence line I could say they were there for monitoring wildlife or even monitoring the horses themselves. I understand they would be liable for damage to my horses and property but where I would stand if they or their dog got kicked and injured by any of my horses?

Really appreciate your swift replies.
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I really think you need to talk to them further and definitely don’t put electric fences outside the field. How long have you been renting the land ?
 
RHM said:
We covered this aspect of law as part of my degree bizarrely (business!) And they cannot bring civil preceding if they are hurt during the act of breaking the law. They could try to bring criminal charges against you but I would imagine the police would laugh them out of the station. Re signs you can have keep out but nothing warning of dangers as that alters liability. Good luck keeping them out, people are retarded at times.
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Thank you for your reply, I herd that from a dog trainer once too(about the signs) like never having a sign saying, 'caution or Beware, rotweiller enter at own risk' or anything like that. So, a simple keep out, another sign for electric fencing and my wire mesh when it arrives and fingers crossed it should be sorted. Such a shame when you just want to get on with people and not have any stress...I just want a peaceful life, really I do! :-)
 
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bonny said:
I’m not clear if you are talking about the general public or just your neighbours ? If the problem is the neighbours then maybe they’ve been using the field before you rented it ....was it empty before you came along ? Have you tried a friendly chat with them and if so maybe they need another chat especially as a yearling colt is appearing. I would try the diplomatic route first.
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Hi thank you yes it is neighbors and yes they were using it before hand despite the fact they they shouldn't have been. We had a friendly chat and they asked if they could continue to walk their dog in their. I said unfortunately no; once the fencing goes up no one was to come in and told them of the potential dangers of horses etc. Everything seemed fine but then I started spotting dog poo so knew they were coming in and then tonight their bloody dog came racing through jumping up at me, totally out of control and their child was climbing on the fence and then climbing through. 3 times I told the kid to get down off the fence and not to climb through. My own child isn't even allowed on the fence. Some people. As I mentioned I wish to be diplomatic and do not want to go in all guns blazing since we both will be in fairly close proximity to each other.
 
BaroqueHorse said:
Hi thank you yes it is neighbors and yes they were using it before hand despite the fact they they shouldn't have been. We had a friendly chat and they asked if they could continue to walk their dog in their. I said unfortunately no; once the fencing goes up no one was to come in and told them of the potential dangers of horses etc. Everything seemed fine but then I started spotting dog poo so knew they were coming in and then tonight their bloody dog came racing through jumping up at me, totally out of control and their child was climbing on the fence and then climbing through. 3 times I told the kid to get down off the fence and not to climb through. My own child isn't even allowed on the fence. Some people. As I mentioned I wish to be diplomatic and do not want to go in all guns blazing since we both will be in fairly close proximity to each other.
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PS as for the other chat before colt appearing I had that tonight. I am all sorted on what to do but my post was more about where I stood legally if they got hurt and if there was anything I could do to protect myself and sort things out amicably.
 
saalsk said:
Agree with above - signs, cameras, something to stop the dog going thru the post/rail sections, and take photos of when it is done - clearly showing the before ( now ) and after ( signs, netting/tornado, warnings, CCTV signs and so on ) so that they can not say they didn't know. Document when, where, and what was said to them, and who (adult ) was present. I would also go back to them once more and explain they may see signs, new netting fencing etc, and this is simply to make sure everyone - them, you, dogs and horses stay safe. I would also chuck in mention of how dogs have been injured / killed by a blow from a hoof, when a dog has been in the field and trespassing ( don't mention dog attacking horses - they won't want to hear that, and will be sure to think that their dog won't, therefore it won't apply to them ) and also cases where dogs have chased or spooked horses, and caused injury, which the dog owner was then liable for the cost of.

If you are renting the land, was it the landowner who asked them not to use the field ? Perhaps they have got used to being able to use it as a free garden, and need more of a reminder that it isn't available anymore. Mentioning that you regularly poo pick, and have other people check your horses in their field at times during the day when you may not be there, will also help deter them. And mention the cameras. A lot. I had an issue of a neighbour chucking garden and other waste into a field of mine - started with grass clippings, escalated to general garden waste, food waste and so on. I took a photo of him doing it, printed it onto paper, put it in a plastic envelope and pinned it to the fence where he chucked the stuff. Didn't happen again !

Mostly, enjoy having a new place to keep your horses :)
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Oh i love the photo and so glad it didn't happen to you after that. Brilliant! Yes I had that exact conversation with them again tonight then the guy got a phone call and walked off! I shall be having it again when the netting actually gets erected and I think taking before and after pics is really a great idea, thank you:-) I shall mention then that I am installing cameras to keep the horses safe.
 
Thank you all for your input, hopefully it might be of help to someone in a similar situation too.I hope I have not missed replying to anyone's comments! Apologies if i have!
 
Signs and make them aware. New horse will be in field try keep away from colt or words to say they may try to play had a friend sued well they tryed admits you knew there would be a problem worlds gone mad I would really just have a straight face to face and let them know there's a new horse and could please stay out field signs can sometimes make you at fault as said friend found out
 
You have a duty of care for anyone that enters your property legally or illegally so you need to make sure that you have third party public liability insurance.
I fence my fields with Post and Rail Fencing with Equi-fencing on them (a tight form of sheep fencing) to prevent dogs from getting in to my fields.
I would be tempted to write a letter to your neighbours stating that you would be obliged if they could ensure that they or their animals do not enter your fields and I would send it by 'Royal Mail Signed For' delivery so that there is no doubt that they received it. That way you could demonstrate if you ever needed to that you have asked them not to enter your fields.
 
RHM said:
We covered this aspect of law as part of my degree bizarrely (business!) And they cannot bring civil preceding if they are hurt during the act of breaking the law
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Its a good thing this is a buisness degree - beacause it is absolutely not good law! It is really counter intuitive but there are several ways a trespasser (which is civil offence not criminal law) can bring civil suit against a landowner for injury suffered whilst trespassing. The fact that they committed a civil wrong first might impact the award of damages - but not the liability.

Clear signs. Things that cause damage (like barbed wire and electrified fencing ) only inside your fence line and only with clear signs. If you know the miscreants you might want to send them a solicitors letter politely reminding them the land is private, horses are unpredictable etc. Sadly horses are not a category of livestock for which you are permitted to shoot so netting to keep dogs out is probably better. If you have cameras that is likely to help your defence but do get good 3P insurance cover.
 
If I were feeling a little vengeful I might be tempted to make use of the dog poo they have so kindly provided and spread it liberally over the fence where they climb it ?
Other than that a formal letter warning them that you will take action if there is any further trespass and they will be liable for all vets fees resulting from your horses becoming stressed or injured due to the presence of them or their dog might make them think twice.
 
Could you apply anti vandal paint to the fences or would that cause a problem for you or the horses? If your electric fencing was well inside the post and rail fence it might be ok? I'm sure no parent would want their child to end up with filthy black grease on their clothes would they? ;)
 
Just to say, all my signs say private land, cameras active, electric fences and livestock in fields - fairly fluffy and non commital, but gives a nice broad warning without suggesting that my horses may well pick up and do a dodgy poodle perm clip on any dog that comes within reach.
I have also put cribbox on parts of the fence line. Because the pony may chew it. Not at all because the invaders won't notice until they touch it, and then smell it, and can't get rid of the smell for weeks.
 
Electric fencing is very effective for dogs. An interesting fact is that if you put it low the dog thinks the current goes straight up so won’t jump over. I have two strands between me and my neighbour, one about 6 inches from the floor and one on the top of the wooden posts and neither dogs nor humans try coming in.
 
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Dog owners are strictly liable for any damage done by their dogs. Therefore you should let your neighbours know that you appreciate that it might be inconvenient that they can no longer use your field for exercising their dog but that it is in both your interests that they adhere to your request not to enter the land. If the child is coming on their own with the dog you could emphasise your worry for the child as well.
a) horses can get territorial, especially regarding dogs and could kill or injure the dog or even them
b) that if their dog does cause your horse(s) to sustain an injury (either directly by biting or indirectly by chasing) then they will be liable for the vet bill or the cost of the horse
Reinforce that vet bills can run to thousands.
 
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Fred66 said:
Dog owners are strictly liable for any damage done by their dogs. Therefore you should let your neighbours know that you appreciate that it might be inconvenient that they can no longer use your field for exercising their dog but that it is in both your interests that they adhere to your request not to enter the land. If the child is coming on their own with the dog you could emphasise your worry for the child as well.
a) horses can get territorial, especially regarding dogs and could kill or injure the dog or even them
b) that if their dog does cause your horse(s) to sustain an injury (either directly by biting or indirectly by chasing) then they will be liable for the vet bill or the cost of the horse
Reinforce that vet bills can run to thousands.
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All of this, plus pointing out that dog poo contains toxins that can prove lethal to horses if ingested.

I’d be getting pretty medieval on their backsides personally.
 
Thank you everyone, yes I was hoping to not have to go down the formal letter route just yet as its very confrontational even when done diplomatically and I have only just moved there so don't want to start causing trouble though I am fully prepared to get as firm as needed(obviously within the law, such as formal letters and reporting to the appropriate authority etc) if the simple things don't work. I already have public liability insurance for all my horses which is good:-)

We have as mentioned, netting on order as well as electric fencing and ordered some general keep out and cctv signs as well as the electric fence warning signs that are required when using electric fencing and also some please do not feed the horses signs too. I ordered a small hole mesh since the horses can't get their feet stuck and children can't get their feet through the holes for a foothold on the fence so it should discourage climbing and and fix the dog issue all at the same time. The electric will run along the top on the inside and over the top of the gate (which is situated our side of the gate posts so in theory if I ran electric directly over the top it would still be within our fence line) failing that just inside just to be doubly safe from a legal perspective and that should obviously keep horses off the fence and people out.

The colt will not be a colt for long, he is due to be gelding within a couple of weeks of arriving. I have had the conversation about safety and my worry for the kids and the dogs safety since horses are big powerful animals so I shall have that again just before my colt comes...perhaps when I put the signs up and mention to them then take it from there. I don't want to use a sledge hammer to crack a nut and wish to keep things friendly as far as possible but at the same time I do not want accidents or the stress associated with them.

Its so backwards in this country in terms of how you need to protect intruders from harm but that's a different topic.

Thank you so much to everyone, you've all been splendid. I think our thread will really help others in a similar situation too:-) Horsey folk sticking together!
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Fix the extended electric fence holders on the inside of the top of the fence, they are about a foot long, bloody difficult to climb over and keeps horses off the fence too on the inside.
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Yes they are on the way with the electric fencing bits and bobs, though I only ordered a few as they were mainly for near the gate to get around the gate posts but I might just use those instead of the smaller ring insulators along that back fence on reflection so will order some more today...good thinking! PS Its got to be said...I bloody love that little fluffy thing you have as your profile picture! It's so flippin' cute!:-D
 
Oy, I must have a "special" dog. I cannot tell you the number of times my Labrador has zapped herself on the same small section of fence. Then after a zap, she goes and checks again, and ZAP. Nope, that wasn't a fluke, dog. A few days later....
She can follow me in through an open lower section, but that'd be too easy.

I couldn't ever just let my dog wander onto someone else's property, nevermind with their pets/livestock. People blow my mind. Also don't get this protect intruders from harm thing. It's not just in the UK either. Again, blows my mind.

It's just sad that you even have to stress about this, go to these lengths and have these somewhat awkward conversations with your neighbor over basic levels of respect.


I think the netting, electric, and signs, signs, signs! approach is the best you can do.
 
I am sure that I read somewhere dog poo can make horses quite ill, if you Google it and get proof it's something else to put to them, it's not nice anyway have dog crap where horses graze I would really put that across to them, would they like piles of horse crap in there garden?
 
I think you are being very restrained. I would have asked nicely first time, then been a bit less nice when the dog escaped into the field.

I could understand the child needing to go into the field to retrieve the dog though. I would then have asked what measures they were going to put into place to prevent it happening again.

I would go nuts if I had seen them deliberately go into the field.

The extra fencing would still be going up (it sends a clear message if nothing else), but they would be in no doubt that I would not expect to see the dog in my field ever again.
 
saalsk said:
Just to say, all my signs say private land, cameras active, electric fences and livestock in fields - fairly fluffy and non commital, but gives a nice broad warning without suggesting that my horses may well pick up and do a dodgy poodle perm clip on any dog that comes within reach.
I have also put cribbox on parts of the fence line. Because the pony may chew it. Not at all because the invaders won't notice until they touch it, and then smell it, and can't get rid of the smell for weeks.
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Do you have to do this where you are?
You are even more remote than I am round the corner from you, we have had walkers up and down the lane and having 2 tons of cow s**t deliverd in my field and 3 beltex rams in there kept walkers with dogs out of my field. My field has a lot of magic mushrooms growing so expecting searchers/pickers!
Oz
 
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