Where do I stand?

[merlins-mum]

On a Saturday, I help out at the 'pony club' held at my yard. My daughter attends (with Merlin) as it is a chance for her to meet similarly horsey-minded kids.
While she's there I do Merlin-related stuff (mucking out, sorting rugs etc) but I also lend a hand tacking up, sorting out stirrups/girths and sometimes leading someone in the school if there is a need. I just like to be useful!

The other day, someone asked if I had had a CRB check (this is the police check to make sure I'm not a nutter and a danger to children) It was just a question - the mother in question had just had to do it herself as she works for a charity.

Now - I *haven't* had this check and have no intention of doing so. Sorry, but I think it's just another example of political correctness gone mad. (I don't approve of ID cards either, but that's a rant for another time!)

Now I am having a quandary moment! I like helping out - I'll help anyone, but at the same time I don't particularly want to be prosecuted for doing a good turn.
I don't get paid for helping - and my daughter is part of the group.

What do you all think? Am I panicing unecessarily?

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I have to have a CRB check just to sit and prepare the art stuff in my son's class. They also have to have a CRB tested male (parent) to accompany them on all school trips for accompanying boys to the loo, as females arent allowed to do it.

You need to ask yourself, would you be happy for someone not checked to work in the school with your kids? The same applies everywhere. You just need to remember the Soham murders to realise WHY these tests are necessary.

 

[the watcher]

this check is important, this is one of the measures to ensure that people with previous convictions that might suggest a tendency to harm children, are not allowed to be in direct contact with children.

I think, however, if you are there as a parent and helping voluntarily, just as a parent might go into school or preschool to help on odd days, you are exempt

 

[Skhosu]

the check is important, I think it is vital as you never know what someone people have in their past!

 

[Christmas_Kate]

No, youre not exempt in any case, anyone who works with minors or those vunerable (elderly, disabled etc) even on a volutary basis HAS to have a check by law.

 

[Irishcobs]

I had to do one to work at my college during half term. I was working with an other student of the same age as me (18). We had liveries who had small children, that we met every day during college and didn't need one but to work, get paid, I needed one.

 

[merlins-mum]

I must confess - I am just stunned.

I don't really see, though, how far it can go..
- so, if I was teaching the kids, advertising, getting paid for it - then CRB is relevant.
- if I am just standing around on the yard and hold someones pony while they get on - I just don't see it. I would do this for anyone.
- and then of course there's a sliding scale of contact/assistance in between.

I still think it's PC madness. They are basically assuming guilt in everyone to catch the tiny tiny TINY minority of people who are nutters. Where does it stop?

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I do a part time driving job & deliver & collect things from schools in my area. I had to have a check made on me. It's no big deal, you fill in a form & it's sent off, & you eventually get a form back clearing you.

It is extremely important that people working or having access to children have these checks on them. History tells us that paedophiles actively seek employment or positions where they come into contact with children.

How would you feel if you came aware of someone working with your child who had convictions for indecency/violence towards children.

As to being prosecuted, I doubt if you would be prosecuted but the owner/operators of the yard could probably be prosecuted for employing you....& yes wether you receive payment or otherwise you are held to be employed.

PS. I don't like ID cards either, but I feel these Police Checks are necessary.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

the Pony club would need insurance, for insurance reasons everyone who helps out would need the CRB.
You said you are stunned, how stunned would you be if some bloke came in and helped out, no CRB test cos he wasnt being paid, and helped your child mount a pony, and he turned out to be a paedophile? Point made.

 

[Zebedee]

I think for your own safety you at least need to do the 'Duty of Care / Child Protection Act' course . It takes about 4 hrs, & is really about how NOT to put yourself in a vunerable / compromising position, as well as how to interpret childrens mood changes etc.
As it doesn't sound as if you are ever in a position where you are left alone unsupervised with a child I don't think you need to have a full CRB check.

 

[Christmas_Kate]

I think the poster hAS to have the small CRB check. That's the one i did.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

There are varying degrees of CRB checks depending on the post you will be working in. My check was fairly quickly done as although I was going to schools the likelihood of my having much contact with children was slight. If you work with the children then the check goes into a little more depth.

My daughter works as a classroom assistant with adults with learning difficulties & she was subject of CRB check aswell.

Quote "I still think it's PC madness. They are basically assuming guilt in everyone to catch the tiny tiny TINY minority of people who are nutters. Where does it stop? "

You could be one of 'the tiny tiny TINY minority of people who are nutters', as you say. Point Taken?

 

[Skhosu]

Do you have a criminal record?
Don't see the problem otherwise? What is the problem???
If your daughter was abducted by a paedophile who hadn't had a check, what would YOU day?

 

[airedale]

Having read the (slightly paranoid) replies below it just to me goes to show the power of the media in producing a climate where there is a "paedophile around every corner".

This attitude is also the cause of the **** school run and the 4x4s clogging up our roads in term time and polluting the environment (and causing a hazard to us riding horses on the roads).

There is NOT NOT NOT a paedophile round every corner.

Yes - there are sick people around - but tbh there is as much chance of your sprog being harmed by a paedophile as there is of your sprog being murdered - and certainly a far higher chance of sproggy being run over by a drink driver or being knifed by a drugged up urban gang member.

I agree with the poster - the whole world has gone media-spin mad.
Without the 'power' of the press normal sane people would still happily be letting their kids walk to and from school and get some exercise instead of sitting in gas guzzling people carriers getting obese.

Whilst the CRB checks might be 'law' that doesn't make them sensible. There are a lot of laws around that are a load of b******s.

With identity theft how do you know that a CRB check couldn't come out clear and yet the person has assumed another persons identity.

Even without identity theft all the CRB check proves is that the person checked HASN'T YET BEEN CONVICTED OF ANYTHING - it doesn't mean to say they aren't a nasty person

So - I find that the CRB check is a futile exercise - especially when you consider that the Home Office that holds the records is "Not fit for purpose" and that they've totally lost track of a large number of paedophiles and sex offenders living in the community.

Thinking about this some more - sproggy is probably most at risk from the school bullies than a paedophile - now when are they going to do a CRB check for ASBO's ?!?!?!?!?!?!?

On principle I'd rather give up helping than go thru a CRB check as I personally think its a load of cow dung and I would refuse to cow-tow to political correctness gone mad.

Just read the replies below and be collectively ashamed of yourselves for believing media spin that there are paedophiles in every corner. There aren't. I do wish this country would get back to some form of reality instead of listening to spin and more spin - lots of which emanate from this c**p government.

Finally - most paedophile 'attacks' are on children by members of the close family they are in.

Does that mean that every potential and current parent should have a CRB check and that the state should ban paedophiles from having children?

Should therefore paedophiles be castrated/sterilised as part of their punishment?

Where does the state stop in it's interference with our lives ?

Just extrapolate where this is going as I have above and THINK.

Personally I think there are lots of people with kids that are totally unfit to be let loose with a stuffed toy - let alone a child - but there is nothing to stop them becoming parents - and then child beaters - and then paedophiles.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. The spin machine can manipulate figures but if you go and look at the real figures you'll find that most of the paedophiles went after their own kids at home. Now will this wonderful CRB check stop that ? NO.

Just more state interference with our lives.

 

[Skhosu]

'state should ban paedophiles from having children?'
Well...to me that's a no brainer!
If it saves one child, it's worth it. That's all I have to say.

 

[WishfulThinker]

They have just started doing these, well Disclosure Scotland checks on new starts at my work as obviously not all students are over 18!! But existing staff DONT have to have them!! Which I find silly. We were also told about a new level of test that involves contacting your ISP provider to see whish website you look at!

You also have to remember htough that it is NOT more dangerous to be a child now thatn before, its just that policing is better and so more people arr caught and that ups the statistics.

 

[beaconhorse]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to have a CRB check just to sit and prepare the art stuff in my son's class. They also have to have a CRB tested male (parent) to accompany them on all school trips for accompanying boys to the loo, as females arent allowed to do it.

You need to ask yourself, would you be happy for someone not checked to work in the school with your kids? The same applies everywhere. You just need to remember the Soham murders to realise WHY these tests are necessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could not agree more. ANYONEwith any contact with children should have one regardless of whether they are paid, whether they help out for 5 mins here and there, or full time

The point is you are 'there' these kids will trust you.

I had to have a CRB to help out with cubs, I did not mind in the slightest.

AS far as I know it only checks for people on the sex offenders list so any other minor problems would not show up?????????????


I certainly would have welcomed this when my kids were young

 

[Salcey]

I have had a CRB check as I am a teacher/governor and volunteer for a local music charity. Yes you should have one done, even if the organiser of the 'pony club' hasn't asked you too. However I think the most important point nowadays is to protect yourself and not put yourself in any situation where an accusation can be made against you -i.e. not be in the same stable as a child on your own. I agree with much that airedale said above CRB checks are possibly not worth the paper they're printed on, but that is not to say you shouldn't haven't one. I do think the biggest danager is you yourself being vunerable to accusation.

 

[PaddyMonty]

This country has gone mad.
So what this thread actually says is that if I am at a show and someone who appears to be under the age of 18 asks me to hold their pony while they walk the course or god forbid, asks for a leg up I should run a mile. Must remeber not to talk to anyone either in case they are under 18.
The OP is not working with children. She is a 'pony club mum' who is there because her daughter is.
Perhaps I should also ban my daughter from attending or holding sleep overs until I see the other parents have had checks done.

I grieve for the death of common sense.
Any yes I am a parent of 2 (9 & 11).

 

[pottamus]

I would say that if a parent has flagged it up..you might have to consider it, even though it seems a bit OTT. I do Clerk work for the school governors, it is evening work and occasionally I have to attend school in the day to photcopy stuff. I have had to have the check done, even though I rarely come into contact with the children at school.

 

[Salcey]

I do agree - the country has gone stark raving bonkers!!!!! but these days you have to look after number one

 

[Sooty]

I worked as a receptionist at a local private hospital and had to have a CRB check, purely because I would be coming into contact with vulernable people. As you are not employed I wouldn't have thought it was necessary though. Why not have a word with the YO. I am totally with you on ID cards, but don't think the CRB check is in the same league.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

If you want to work with children then it is the law you have a CRB check. If you are not prepared to have a check then for4get any idea of working with them. It's as simple as that. As for 'airdale', saying I'd rather give up helping than have a CRB check......why? If you've done nothing wrong then what have you to hide. I wouldn't want anyone working with my children that wasn't prepared to have a check.

 

[matthew]

As a mother you wouldnt want a peadophile being any where near your children- so although its a sad state it is there to protect young people from dangerous people- if you have nothing to hide i dont see a problem!

 

[merlins-mum]

Thank goodness!! I was beginning to think that I was alone.

You said it much better than me - I'm not employed, or really helping - I'm just there on the yard. So are a number of other liveries; but they don't have any kids involved.
I can think of a million situations where the line is blurry, as well as the ones you give above.

I agree that if you *have* to send your child somewhere (school for example) then the local authority or whatever has a duty of care to make sure your child is protected. BUT I think that if YOU choose to send your child to an activity (riding, girl guides, church choir) then YOU should be responsible. You should check out the place and satisfy yourself that you are happy with the setup. You can't abrogate your responsibilities to a piece of paper.

I just don't think you can get everyone in the world who might approach your child to get a certificate saying that they are ok. Remember that these certificates only work BEFORE someone is caught! A certificate doesn't mean that you are safe - only that you haven't been caught yet. It's just a blunt instrument - it doesn't prove anything and gives a false sense of security.

(Goodness - I haven't had so much of a rant since the last time someone 'borrowed' my grooming kit!)

 

[airedale]

"Policing is better" WHERE ????

Certainly NOT round me - where you've a snowballs chance in hell of seeing a copper (unless he's sitting at roadside with a camera being one of Gordon Browns tax collectors)

Now beware of what you say in the street in london - news item last night is that they are putting high capability microphones in all the cameras with a range of 100 yards - so you are going to have every word you say on the street overheard, monitored and potentially used against you in future.

This country is now the most regulated, monitored and taxed in the western world and ARE WE ANY SAFER than other countries - I very very much doubt it !!

 

[merlins-mum]

I just don't approve of blanket solutions that solve nothing.

 

[merlins-mum]

Someone else who puts it far better than me!

There is a fair amount of butt-covering going on as well with CRB checks. One of my kids is at a state school, the other is at a private school. The state school insists on checks for everything, even to the extent of banning photographs of school events (because some of the parents might be paedophiles!!)
The private school seems to be more sensible - certainly I don't get bombarded with disclaimers, approvals and permissions, let alone rules the way I do at the state school.

 

[matthew]

Personaly i think certain people in this country really are a bunch of moaners- i think compared to a lot of places we live in a democratic sociaty- nowere is perfect but it cant be that bad if so many people want to live here! What ever happens with the crb checks people would moan if they were not in place and moan when they are- come on- its not taking up any of your time, whats the big deal - hopefully it will deter cetain people from jobs if these checks are compulsory!

 

[not_with_it]

It is impossible to do checks on everyone. There are no rules and regulations to stop a paedophile from turning up at a local show where there are kids. There is no way that you can tell unless it is tatood across their forehead. Sometimes you just have to trust people.