Where do I stand?

AlDestoor

AlDestoor

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Hi,

Where do I stand in relation to the below?

Basically horse had KS surgery in November and has been in rehab ever since. I'm now coming to the end of the rehab as CV-19 hit.

I wanted to send him away to a professional during lockdown - something the vet has supported with in order to carry on his rehab. He was becoming sour in the school (we've done nothing but poles and long lining for 4 months, 5 days a week) so vet and physio deem anything to do with his rehab essential.

So, I messaged the YO to request permission to send him away DURING LOCKDOWN- they said it was "up to me"; so, 2 days later off he went.

I then got a message from YO that evening, stating that I never informed them. After trying to call and them refusing to answer the phone, they messaged to say it was not up for discussion, they give me 7 days to leave, and to load my other horse up on the road. Completely baffled and out of the blue. I have the screen shot messages.

So, I tried to call to arrange for my other horse to be loaded safely, again refused to answer, so my mum called. They lied and said I never asked permission- which my mum clearly stated I did.

Anyway, I pay 6 weeks in advance every month, by bank transfer, with the note on the transfer as "livery". They owe me £256 (18 days livery from notice) and are refusing to pay, stating I never asked for permission so broke contract. I never signed a contract and did ask for permission, all of which I can document.

I've also messaged BHS who have fully supported me and filed a small claims against them. They've extended their time to respond straight away (I think out of spite).

Not only about the above, but I'm also completely baffled- I've never missed a payment in the 18 months I've been on there (like I said- always paid in advance) never caused any drama and never asked for anything from there bar my shavings and a small paddock when my horse had his operation.

I really think there should be some law or more support for Horse Owners on Livery. I'm in a good position where I have my own land so being here was purely convenience, but had I not had the land- I would have been scuppered due to CV-19 restrictions and not many yards taking on. The latter point I am looking to get a petition started in somewhat form but wanted your thoughts on the above?
 
I'm sorry for what you have gone through - but I wouldn't support any change in the law. You got what you were legally entitiled to - the period of time you had already paid for. Although I know a lot of folk on here - inlcuding me - would take the remaining horse immediately rather than risk any form of retribution. Livery contracts are just that - a contract. As long as the notice period specified is given (or there is a clause allowing immediate explusion) then it is what it is. If there was a legal requirement for minimum notice, or some form of squatters rights then all it would do is drive more livery yards out of buisness. The horse world is a small one - word of poor conduct gets around and if the YO has behaved unreasonably then other liveries will be reluctant to come one, or she will only be able to attract the more difficult ones other yards don't want. Either way - her look out.

I know its geographically specific - but several yards around here are still accepting liveries.
 
Sounds like a sh*t yo to be honest. Horse moved on vet advice. They broke the implied terms of contract. I'd be going all the way with the small claims court and potentially asking for transport costs, any accosiated costs with moving the second horse ie. bedding and forage if that was previously provided.

I might also take photos of my paddock and stable areas prior to leaving in case of any damages claims.
 
I have moved already but I'm trying to get my money back as I paid up until 1st may which is £256.

Shes saying I broke contract by asking for permission, i never signed one and haven't broke anything plus i did ask.
 
moosea said:
Sounds like a sh*t yo to be honest. Horse moved on vet advice. They broke the implied terms of contract. I'd be going all the way with the small claims court and potentially asking for transport costs, any accosiated costs with moving the second horse ie. bedding and forage if that was previously provided.

I might also take photos of my paddock and stable areas prior to leaving in case of any damages claims.
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Oh I forgot to say- I asked upon leaving when would be convenient to come and empty stables, given that they weren't talking to me for some unknown reason- I was told dont bother- so I replied and said I dont expect to be charged given I have asked to come up and they've stopped me.

I've submitted the case anyway but I really dont know where this has come from!
 
Lucy-Jay said:
I have moved already but I'm trying to get my money back as I paid up until 1st may which is £256.

Shes saying I broke contract by asking for permission, i never signed one and haven't broke anything plus i did ask.
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The contract does not have to be written, and may be varied by written agreement or by accepting changes.
Not sure how moving your horse on vets advice is breaking the contract? and asking to move is certainly not breaking the contract as the YO could have said no.
 
Livery yards can sometimes be little kingdoms with rules to be changed at the whim of the king or queen. That is always the hard part about finding a good livery yard. For the money involved I personally would let it go, I could not be bothered in wasting time and energy bothering giving them anymore head space.
 
moosea said:
The contract does not have to be written, and may be varied by written agreement or by accepting changes.
Not sure how moving your horse on vets advice is breaking the contract? and asking to move is certainly not breaking the contract as the YO could have said no.
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My point exactly- her words literally were 'it's up to you'
 
Gingerwitch said:
Livery yards can sometimes be little kingdoms with rules to be changed at the whim of the king or queen. That is always the hard part about finding a good livery yard. For the money involved I personally would let it go, I could not be bothered in wasting time and energy bothering giving them anymore head space.
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Had it be £50, I would, but that is alot of money around here- its effectively 2 horses livery for a month
 
If theres no written and signed contract and no record of a verbal agreement then they are peeing in the wind. Most written contracts arent worth what they are written on either.

There is clearly something else going on as they have just done themselves out of livery for two horses and now have two spaces. That seems a daft move in the current climate!

I'd proceed as you are with small claims for your money and be glad that you're away from them.

There is someone else posting similar re YO kicking them out but they sont have their own place and can't find livery.

Maybe isolation is playing haywire with YO brains either way just be glad you're out and the horses are safe.

Let the court system deal with the money that you are due
 
Lucy-Jay said:
Oh I forgot to say- I asked upon leaving when would be convenient to come and empty stables, given that they weren't talking to me for some unknown reason- I was told dont bother- so I replied and said I dont expect to be charged given I have asked to come up and they've stopped me.

I've submitted the case anyway but I really dont know where this has come from!
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They have possibly already filled your stables.
 
It sounds as if she was expecting more notice for horse 1, moving 2 days after mentioning it in a message was not really giving notice, she has got huffy and decided to retaliate by giving you 7 days to move horse 2, I think horse 1 livery should not have been returned because you did not give reasonable notice but now she has behaved so badly I might follow it up.
 
be positive said:
It sounds as if she was expecting more notice for horse 1, moving 2 days after mentioning it in a message was not really giving notice, she has got huffy and decided to retaliate by giving you 7 days to move horse 2, I think horse 1 livery should not have been returned because you did not give reasonable notice but now she has behaved so badly I might follow it up.
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Just IMO but I dont follow that train of thought.

Livery had paid both horses until May so that covers at least a week of notice. Horse was only away for rehab and would be returning at some point since there was no intention of moving horse 2.

There are two sides to every story but failing to see how YO behaviour is in any way reasonable
 
be positive said:
It sounds as if she was expecting more notice for horse 1, moving 2 days after mentioning it in a message was not really giving notice, she has got huffy and decided to retaliate by giving you 7 days to move horse 2, I think horse 1 livery should not have been returned because you did not give reasonable notice but now she has behaved so badly I might follow it up.
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I think you've got confused- I was never "moving"- he was being sent away and coming back in 2 weeks.

@ Ginger Witch - I am told they filled them 2 days after I left!

@ Ester yes- Paid until 1st May, he would have been coming back this week had I stayed.
 
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Lucy-Jay said:
I think you've got confused- I was never "moving"- he was being sent away and coming back in 2 weeks.

@ Ginger Witch - I am told they filled them 2 days after I left!

@ Ester yes- Paid until 1st May, he would have been coming back this week had I stayed.
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2 days later during a pandemic....they wanted you gone to let this person on the yard I reckon!
 
TPO said:
Just IMO but I dont follow that train of thought.

Livery had paid both horses until May so that covers at least a week of notice. Horse was only away for rehab and would be returning at some point since there was no intention of moving horse 2.

There are two sides to every story but failing to see how YO behaviour is in any way reasonable
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Honestly, I have all of the conversation screen shot- Unless I am missing something I'm not privvy to (like some sort of stirring going- which wouldn't surprise me) then I have the whole thing documented! It's just baffling!
 
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Maybe i miss understand what notice you needed to give. I have never been at a yard where two days notice would be acceptable, i have either been expected to give a month or 7 days depending on what the payment terms are. So if I paid monthly on the 1st and gave notice on the 2nd, I would still expect to have been charged for the full month, technically if they wanted to be awkward they could have charged you for a further week if they required a months notice.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Maybe i miss understand what notice you needed to give. I have never been at a yard where two days notice would be acceptable, i have either been expected to give a month or 7 days depending on what the payment terms are. So if I paid monthly on the 1st and gave notice on the 2nd, I would still expect to have been charged for the full month, technically if they wanted to be awkward they could have charged you for a further week if they required a months notice.
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But I was never leaving! They gave me 7 days because apparently I never asked to send horse away during CV-19- which I did. Horse was going to rehab for 2 weeks, and coming back, during which time, I was still paying for my livery.
 
be positive said:
It sounds as if she was expecting more notice for horse 1, moving 2 days after mentioning it in a message was not really giving notice, she has got huffy and decided to retaliate by giving you 7 days to move horse 2, I think horse 1 livery should not have been returned because you did not give reasonable notice but now she has behaved so badly I might follow it up.
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I assumed OP was paying for her horse's stable even while away. That's what I have always done - assuming I want to come back! So she was not giving notice when she moved. At least that is how I understood it.
 
I'm presuming that the intention was to continue to pay for horse 1 livery whilst he was away on rehab and that he would return to the original yard where horse 2 still was at the end of the rehab stint?
But maybe YO thought it was a permanent move and with no notice?
 
I don't think OP was giving "notice", she was not leaving the yard or giving up her stable.

She asked for permission to move her horse due to the lockdown.

Horse was going for 2wks rehab. If I've worked the dates out correctly then the livery at the yard has already been paid to cover the 2wk duration that horse was at rehab yard.
 
chaps89 said:
I'm presuming that the intention was to continue to pay for horse 1 livery whilst he was away on rehab and that he would return to the original yard where horse 2 still was at the end of the rehab stint?
But maybe YO thought it was a permanent move and with no notice?
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Yep, he would have been coming back this weekend, and both yards were being paid. I did make this clear on the message to her.
 
Gingerwitch said:
Maybe i miss understand what notice you needed to give. I have never been at a yard where two days notice would be acceptable, i have either been expected to give a month or 7 days depending on what the payment terms are. So if I paid monthly on the 1st and gave notice on the 2nd, I would still expect to have been charged for the full month, technically if they wanted to be awkward they could have charged you for a further week if they required a months notice.
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The horse wasn’t leaving just going on holiday no notice is necessary really but op gave it out of courtesy for the lockdown
 
TPO said:
I don't think OP was giving "notice", she was not leaving the yard or giving up her stable.

She asked for permission to move her horse due to the lockdown.

Horse was going for 2wks rehab. If I've worked the dates out correctly then the livery at the yard has already been paid to cover the 2wk duration that horse was at rehab yard.
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Correct, he was always coming back.

@equi- exactly what you are saying.
 
Your YO is bonkers and you are well out of it. Totally unreasonable behaviour. What exactly have you done wrong? Are their concerns that you are breaching social distancing rules? Which you aren't because this was a welfare journey. And you had permission anyway. Definitely small claims for the money and be glad you have left. As they have filled both stables already it looks to me like they had the chance to move a mate on and used your 2 week rehab trip as an excuse to get rid of you and double earn for a month. Don't let them!
 
Lucy-Jay said:
But I was never leaving! They gave me 7 days because apparently I never asked to send horse away during CV-19- which I did. Horse was going to rehab for 2 weeks, and coming back, during which time, I was still paying for my livery.
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bangs head off table, so what on earth was their issue then ?
you certainly are better off not being on their yard anymore, and sorry I miss-understood the issue.
If the lockdown was due to a horse infection i.e. strangles, equine flu i can see why they would have cause to be awkward with you and want you to leave.
So if your horse had to have gone to hospital would they have been the same?
Are they also taking advantage of your age and or circumstance and perhaps they have replaced you with someone whom is going to pay more ?
 
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