Where do the (good) dealers get their horses from?

kaiserchief

kaiserchief

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I've just seen two posts on Facebook from reputable dealers that I follow introducing new horses and it got me thinking - where are they buying them from? They must have a trustworthy supplier as one even stated they hadn't seen any of the horses themselves yet but who is that supplier and do they also sell to the general public? The reason for my musing is that these dealers are selling the type of horse I'd like to buy next year but as they are businesses and need to make a profit, they must be buying the horses for considerably less money than they sell them for and I'm tight and want to cut out the middle man 🫣 😂
 
I know a couple of breeders and producers over here that do breed top notch, mostly competition, horses. Both of them have their contacts to dealers over in the UK and Europe and even further afield. As one once said to me, "We take the cream for ourselves and let the rest go to the UK and the rest of the world". Put like that it could sound like the decent breeders only send second rate ones out of Ireland, that isn't true of course, he was referencing very, very promising horses and even the ones sent off out of Ireland will still have been some of the top horses available with very promising futures and a hefty price tag that would reflect their desirability.

Sadly we now seem to be a bit over run with low end breeders selling very questionable and undesirable sorts over to dealers in the UK, where they seem to have no problems selling them on at eye watering prices. I am not talking about your nice middle of the range all rounder family horse here, we still have plenty of them and worth their weight in gold if you can track one down, but the really bottom drawer stuff that should never have been bred to be honest, unfortunately where there is a gullible market it will continue unabated. :confused:
 
I would say that a lot would come from Ireland, still. I don't know if it is still the case, but breeding was encouraged in Ireland and supported by the Government - not sure how, but think tax breaks, subsidies, etc. - so a farmer might have a couple of brood mares and have foals and youngstock around.

Its going back as far as I am concerned, but at least once local dealer would have a lorry load of all sorts either sourced by himself or a local person spotting potential sellers. Some would come up at a market - think of some of the nice types that currently come up at Brecon market currently - some would be from a nagsman who might take youngsters from local farmers and would get them going and then sell on. Ponies, hunters, younger horses, all sorts.
 
A lot go through the sales in Ireland, and knowing that English tend to be wary, they’re snapped up by yards who add 25% on and sell them ten a Penny,

There is a college scheme in Ireland where the kids have to work with the college to back/train a horse and then sell via the sales - I nearly bought one that had been through a scheme but opted for a mare instead.
 
A local dealer who was a farrier as well used to go to Ireland a few times a year and bring back some nice young horses. They would often have a buyer in mind . Quite a few of the older PC kids would get their next size up pony from them. They would bring a couple to local shows for kids to try out or to a PC rally. I never heard any complaints about them either.
 
Thanks all, it's really interesting that so many are coming across from Ireland still. Is it that the Irish horses are in general better bred/started and therefore more sought after, or are they just produced more cheaply/subsidised? Presumably there must be horses of equal quality bred, produced and sold on home ground so why are the dealers still opting to buy from Ireland? I figure it must come down to either quality or price.

I've scanned the Brecon sale again today and seen several really nice looking family-type horses and ponies going for peanuts while the fancy coloured cobs fetch decent prices. I'm used to buying sheep at auction and have had horses (and youngsters in particular) most of my adult life so may end up visiting a sale over the winter to see what's really there in the flesh. Not that I'm buying til next year (yes husband, I am aware we only have enough hay for the woolly wallies and not a pony right now :rolleyes:).
 
kaiserchief said:
Thanks all, it's really interesting that so many are coming across from Ireland still. Is it that the Irish horses are in general better bred/started and therefore more sought after, or are they just produced more cheaply/subsidised? Presumably there must be horses of equal quality bred, produced and sold on home ground so why are the dealers still opting to buy from Ireland? I figure it must come down to either quality or price.

I've scanned the Brecon sale again today and seen several really nice looking family-type horses and ponies going for peanuts while the fancy coloured cobs fetch decent prices. I'm used to buying sheep at auction and have had horses (and youngsters in particular) most of my adult life so may end up visiting a sale over the winter to see what's really there in the flesh. Not that I'm buying til next year (yes husband, I am aware we only have enough hay for the woolly wallies and not a pony right now :rolleyes:).
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I hope this is correct but I think the Irish government treat raising equines as an important export business and breeders get taxed favourably. Ireland also has a lot of limestone based grazing, excellent for horses. They have a sparser human population so grazing land is much cheaper.
 
I think most of them buy from whatever they see they think they can make a buck on. People selling as being overhorsed, people selling cheap in the hope of a good home.
Ireland must be covered in horses if there are multiples arriving daily.
I've told this story before but in 2015 I went over to Clitheroe sales with my transporting friend as I was planning on buying a pony from a stud dispersal sale, accompanying us was a dealer I did not know. While on the journey this chap took numerous phone calls from two parties, one who had recently bought a horse from him, and the other, the lady he had bought said horse from.
New owner had got in touch with old owner and was shocked to find the dealer had only bought the horse a week previous, and it had been sold to him as a companion only.
He thought it looked sound and had ridden it for a few days and moved it on at an obvious profit.
Neither ladies were very happy
It's what happens
 
pistolpete said:
Seems the professional dealers round here work the horses through some basic stuff work them regularly but knock the rough edges off. They seem to get them ‘produced’ quickly and then they’re ££££ I often wonder if they unravel once they don’t have the strict regime.
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From my very vicarious experience, I think there is a lot of that. Seems like a lot of local dealers buy half-broke horses from Ireland, knock off some rough edges, then sell on. Whether those horses do well outwith a pro yard/pro rider set-up is a total crapshoot.

I don't know the poliics or the lie of the land or why dealers seem to find it preferable to ship in a boat-load of youngsters from Ireland, rather than get them from British breeders. But looking around and watching friends and barnmates go through stuff, if I wanted an Irish breed like a Connie, I'd either schlep to Ireland myself to buy a baby or find a local breeder. If a youngster's education is going to be f**cked up, I'd rather fix my f** ups rather than someone else's. The guilt is strong, but at least I know what I'm dealing with.
 
That is a really good point - especially considering that some of those dealers sell them within days of their arrival in England. The horses won't have had time to decompress and adjust to their new normal so when they then get to stay in one place with their new owner, an easier workload and a more relaxed routine, do they then transform from the "easy, well-mannered" horse they bought into something stronger, fiestier and more opinionated?
 
A lot of people would rather buy an "irish" horse than a British bred one. I think they're perceived as better value? No logic to that thinking but hey.

I have friends who source their horses from particular suppliers in Ireland they have a business relationship with. Those guys would rather sell trade to trade - no messing with individual buyers and they know some money for many is better than bigger money for a few. The economies of sale.
They'll also do it on a SoR basis.
 
I’m not defending all dealers but if they are buying from trusted contacts (which they normally are) and then get them over and the horse is true to it’s description then it is in their best interest to move the horse on quickly and they have no need to produce the horse. The mark up in this case is not because they’ve produced the horse, it’s because it’s now on home soil, can be tried and vetted, can be returned and they have taken a gamble by buying it in.

What you don’t see as a buyer is this ones that are returned to Ireland as not suitable for the English market or need a few months in the field to get some condition on or do need producing. You soon lose a lot of the markup.

As someone else said, sometimes horses come from Irish contacts to sell and are never owned by the dealer. In fact it happens a fair amount with new start up dealers, who don’t have the cash to buy a load in.

We did have a rather infamous hunting person/dealer near us who had a very clever business model. Buy in nice looking, young Irish horses, tart them up and within 24 hours they were out as hirelings hunting - the dealer was getting paid hundreds per horse per day for them to be hunted. Hunted 3+ days a week as hirelings, sold within a few weeks for a lot as ‘well hunted’ and had all the pictures. Unfortunately for the new owner and horse, the strings often started to unravel when they were not in hard work, fed up a little and got over their bombardment. I also heard of a few nasty falls off hired horses that lost their mind having only just been introduced to it all.
 
This is really interesting, thank you. I had no clue that they may have them on a sale or return basis or to sell on behalf of an Irish breeder or producer. It does make sense why they would want to sell them on quickly too.

The one dealer whose horses I've tracked down have been advertised for a lot of money so actually her profit margin isn't anywhere near as impressive as I'd expected it to be, especially once you factor in the cost of vet checks and transport.
 
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