where do you stand if you buy a rearer,are you entitled to ur cash bk

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prudunce

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without naming and shaming(YET). ive purchased a horse from a dealer,had him a wk and hes turned out to be a bad rearer.Now i purchased him in gd faith and asked if he had any vices,was told NO as was the vet on the 5 stage vetting!(dealer only had him a wk b4 me so denies knowing nag had a prob&doesnt have anything to exchange 4 me)
Dealer said he will take horse back but i dont get my cash back till hes sold it on(errrrrrrrr how is thst fare).
Now do i get legal advice(im a BE member) or wud u let him take horse bk(when hes got stablle ive been told)and wait for ur cash when he sells the nag?(?let alone the 2 hrs towing to take horse back to him plus the £50teeth rasping i paid out 4 new nag)do i go thro a solicitor&act now?.
I obv want/need my cash back asap to purchase another horse.so dont want to wait till he sells on this horse.Anyone know buyers rights pls???
 
Citizens Advice first thing tomorrow morning...I have no idea what the laws ar but I *think* he must take the horse back within 14 days or something like that. If you keep him he could then argue that it's your riding or doing that has caused the raring. Be strong and tell him the horse is coming back, you want your money back or you are going to your solicitor and traing standards.
 
I don't think rearing is actually counted as a vice (and it may be true that the dealer didn't know he did it).

I have no idea how experienced you are with this sort of thing - have you had advice from an instructor? Could it be anything that you are doing that is making him rear? Is your tack OK?

When he rears, does it feel like a 'green' rear or does he feel in control of what he is doing? Is he having a panic or is he chellenging something you are asking him to do?

Most reputable dealers will offer an exchange, don't know if he is actually obliged to give you cash back.
 
im an experienced rider and the horse did it for no reason,bolt upright 6 times and it knew exactally wat it was doing,no-way was it a 1st time for the horse& i may be wrong BUT im sure he knew horse had this prob.No pain as horse had been happy being schooled at home,this happend when i took it out for schooling!it wasnt put under any pressure or stressed!
I did ask IF the horse was safe"did it rear"b4 i bought it and was told NO!
I thought rearing is a vice or at least should be mentioned to purhaser?
Difficult one i know and i not out to cause probs for dealer BUT ive lost good money and have a horse i cant/wont ride,!
Will get legal advice 2mrw b4 i talk further to dealer.
 
Do you have the advert? If so, then you just go and get your money back and return the horse. Horses fall under the same guidelines as fridges and freezers and if a being a rearer makes him unfit for purpose, then you have up to 6 months to return it for a full refund. Just tell him that you will go to court, you will win and he will end up having to pay your costs as well as his own, plus pay you in full for the initial purchase price of the horse.
Don't argue with him, if he still says no, then send a letter giving him 7 days to sort out the collection of the horse and refund of your money, and if nothing happens, then take him to court.
Doesn't matter whether it is your fault the horse rears, or if it just likes going up. The law reads "must be fit for purpose".
 
It's the benefit of buying from a dealer - you are covered by Sale of Goods Act, so don't take any c**p from him/her, you are entitled to a full refund. Someone I know took a dealer to court & won the price/costs/livery/etc, so get advice from BHS legal or similar. Good luck
 
sad to hear it hasnt worked out....

I may be wrong, but I thought that you were meant to declare such vices when selling? Ive just been scanning the 'Problem Horses' website (incidently, there's a nice mare on there from Kent for 3 or 4 k) and some of the horses were on there with comments such as 'we've had to advertise on here as a problem horse as he rears....therefore no way can go to children etc etc...had to declare it'. They may just be genuinely honest sellers, but might be something in it...
 
Trading standards is a good contact - this dealer may already have 'form' and tradng standards may be aware of it..
 
Rearing isn't a vice but could be argued that the horse was not fit for purpose. However the dealer did say he had only got the horse the week before. You tried the horse, had it vetted (check your blood sample).

You don't say under what conditions the horse is now rearing. If for example you were trying to take him away from other horses in a new environment then.....

The dealer has offered to take the horse back & sell it on your behalf so you may find that this is viewed legally as being more than reasonable especially if your receipt says tried & bought as seen or something similar. Certainly take some legal advice but make sure you give the facts...
 
I bought a young horse that sounds exactly the same. He did it a few times hacking, then did it on a XC course and wouldn't go in any direction, apart from up!!
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All that I could have tried to cope with but he reared up when we were trying to get him in the wagon and nearly kicked my dads head in - that was too scary!!
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Luckily she took him back.... thank god!!!

I hope you get things sorted!!
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Have had conversation with Prudunce about this.

Think part of the trouble is, that the seller is claiming he's not a dealer. He has another horse related career.

But he took this horse in as part Exchange for one he was selling, and when Prudunce asked for a swap with another horse for sale on the yard he said he didn't have any other 'cheap crap' (or words to that effect) for sale!!

I understood if you sold more than 2 horses per year as part of your business, that made you a dealer?
 
Friend bought a horse being sold by a well known eventer, 1 week later the horse reared, went over and broke it's neck. Luckily daughter wasn't on board - it was on the lunge.

friends OH is a lawyer.

Ad stated vice free.

1) horse was being sold 'on behalf of' rather than by eventer - very important fact
2) rearing is NOT a listed vice - it is a behaviour
3) asked was horse suitable for a junior - is it well behaved.

They got nothing - insurance didn't pay out as within 14 days and no comeback on seller. lost a considerable sum.
 
I'm still a bit confused by the horse selling/buying laws here but how, exactly, do you prove a seller knew about such a behaviour, especially if the person is straight about only having had the horse for a short time? Something like cribbing is a bit different - a confirmed cribber would be unlikely to go a week without showing the vice - but if a horse stops/bucks/rears or similar it's often only under specific circumstances and it's quite possible to avoid the triggers, even unintentionally. Also, there has to be a first time (not saying this is the case in this situation - I can't judge over the internet) and I have seen horses that have NEVER shown a behaviour before demonstrate it quite violently the first time.

I bought a horse years ago that I found out later had a reputation as a rearer. I've now had the horse for 20 years and during that time he's reared once under tack, when he had been on stall rest for three weeks, was being ridden in an open area without sedation the first day back (yes, I was an idiot) and a flock of geese took off under his nose. Otherwise, the only time he even got light was in the start box. So in 20 years he reared once in understandable circumstances . . . would that make him a rearer?

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm genuinely trying to understand how it works here. How can anybody GUARANTEE the behaviour of a living thing in circumstances over which they have no control and don't even witness? How do you cope with that? Just not claim anything? Then how do you promote a horse for sale?

Bewildered of Balham . . .
 
There was an article the other week in H+H (I think) taht said is isn't actually defined anywhere how many of something you have to sell to be defined as a dealer
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I bought a horse that was deemed suitable to novice event and when he came home he threw everyone off, when I asked what I could do legally I was told that as I wanted him to NE I should be capable of schooling him through bad bahaviour issues. I paid a lot of money and tried him 3 x and 5* vetting all identified nothing. He turned out to have a bad back which luckily we could sort.

A couple of things which I know are not going to be popular but,

its unfortunate you chose a horse that no-one knew the history on
and secondly a really cheap horse is cheap for a reason, either it
needs further schooling cos its green or it does have issues/ vices.

I think you should push hard for your money back.
 
There is a lot of advice here which is simply wrong. You need proper legal advice so you know exactly what your rights are. There are various articles posted on the internet giving correct information as to the law, I would read those and then contact a solicitor who is a member of the Equine Lawyers Association. Check the ads in H+H.
You do have a possible claim.
Good luck.
 
With a dealer you have much more recourse than if it was a private sale.

They have to adhere to the sale of goods act 1979. The *item* (in this case the horse) should be fit for purpose, which I guess it is. However, it shoudl also be as described which it wasn't really. Although unless you have something to back this up with, I can't really see you getting your money back.

You could go to a solicitor but, depending on the price of the horse, you could quickly end up paying out more in legal fees than you did for the horse
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[ QUOTE ]
There is a lot of advice here which is simply wrong. You need proper legal advice so you know exactly what your rights are. There are various articles posted on the internet giving correct information as to the law, I would read those and then contact a solicitor who is a member of the Equine Lawyers Association. Check the ads in H+H.
You do have a possible claim.
Good luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you post some links to ones you find particularly informative? I'm curious.

Thanks
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My view is that there is no duty to declare as it is not a 'vice' it is a behavioural issue. Having said that if you specifically asked (and you would have to prove that!) whether it reared and he said no - he would be in difficuulties. I would have to say that if he had only had it a week he could probably succeed in saying he had never seen it rear and that might be true. Again proof is important.

If you told him you wanted the horse for a specific purpose and it is clearly not suitable for that purpose - again he could be indifficulty if he is a trader - or possibly even if he is not!

You dont say how old the horse is? This is important. Many young horses tend to nap/rear and with patience grow out of this trait - we have had two first class event horses that did this. If the horse only rears when away from his own schooling area - that might indicate nervousness - lack of confidence ie youth. In other words what might be toterable (and expected) in a 3 - 5 year old might be totally intolerable in a horse 6+.

Certainly go to the CAB for advice - but think very hard before embarking on litigation - it is expensive - even if you win - and very stressful. You must be sure you can prove all your assertions 'on the balance of probabilities'.
Let us know how you get on.
 
I dont see why the person would have lied if they only had it a week - it had gone to a show and jumped round there is a video

you tried the horse and wanted it - they have said they will take it back and sell it - they havent just said tough keep it !!
 
Do you no the horse s.t? may be you can shed some light on this matter!! as you said you no this dealer very well, may be you can help Lou....
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Do you no the horse s.t? may be you can shed some light on this matter!! as you said you no this dealer very well, may be you can help Lou....
smile.gif


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sorry when did i say i know the dealer very well?? i think that this should be dealt with between lou and the other person - they said they would take it back and sell it which i think is fine !
 
I sold a rearer- the person i bought it off lied and did a runner. I tried hard to sort it out and got him to the point where he was a lovely hack and you could wipe the floor at local RC dressage but if you jumped he would get wound up and rear. I sold him to some people who "had no interest in jumping just happy hacking and local dressage" very cheaply for pink papered Westphalian. I said he reared in the ad and put it on the receipt- one week later i get horrible phone calls and threats because they took him jumping and he reared- WTF?? I refunded their money and gave him to a friend who wasnt bothered about the rearing and they are still happy 3 years on (the only horse i have sold in 10 years so i dont think i am a dealer)

My vet said that he would count rearing as a serious behavioural issue that should be declared and in his opinion no body should ever get on a known rearer as its so dangerous... He advised having the horse PTS which i probably would have done if my friend hadn't stepped in.
 
I'm surprised that rearing isn't classed as a vice.

Did you ask if it was "quiet to ride" - in which case I would class rearing as NOT quiet.

The "I can't give you your money back because, etc. etc. ............... " is just flannel. You must take the horse back immediately, it is not "fit for purpose."
 
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Do you no the horse s.t? may be you can shed some light on this matter!! as you said you no this dealer very well, may be you can help Lou....
smile.gif


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sorry when did i say i know the dealer very well?? i think that this should be dealt with between lou and the other person - they said they would take it back and sell it which i think is fine !

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Why is that fine? She asked if the horse reared, was told no, and it is a serious rearer therefore not fit for purpose. Why should she have to wait what could be weeks or even months before getting the money, and what if the dealer sells for less? What if the horse goes lame? She could end up with nothing, which is exactly what people want to avoid when buying from a dealer, the whole point is that you do have come back if the horse isn't right for some reason.
 
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