where does buckskin colour come from?

NeverSayNever

NeverSayNever

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i asked in another thread i started about my horses's breeding, but i decided to make it a separate question and hopefully get more responses.

Charlie was advertised as dun, and i think of him as dun, lol:o but i know technically he is buckskin as he has no dorsal stripe. Probably champagne buckskin...

what im wondering is, where the colour comes from?

his sire is accondy and his dam is angloarabxhighland...

http://www.sporthorsegb.co.uk/members/Horses.asp?ID=136227

i know his gggranddam was a dun highland- but isnt dun genetically different?, or can that throw a buckskin down the line.. ?

pic of charlie

jumpinglesson052_0001.jpg




thank you in advance :)
 
The cream gene is completely separate from Dun and doesn't occur at all in highlands (they have what is termed Cream Dun but this is nothing to do with the cream gene that gives buckskin). Very confusing I know! I can't help any more than that but the highland part definitely doesn't have anything to do with producing the buckskin.
 
thank you guys

i dont know what colour his mum was... but here are some more pics of him. most people when they meet him and hear he has a bit of highland in him, tend to say "ahh that'l be where his colour comes from"
charlieschool001.jpg

jumpinglesson001.jpg
DSC00077.jpg

lesson018.jpg


as a foal:D
MixofPhotos007.jpg



charlie001.jpg
 
Ohhh he's beautiful! I would say most definitely buckskin though, highlands don't come in that sort of shade. If I'd seen him I would have thought he had connemara in him to get the buckskin. I have a buckskin connie x mare here who is exactly the same colour!
 
xena_wales said:
They're misinformed and getting dun and buckskin confused, like many people still do.

QUOTE]

I think, perhaps, that the confusion arises because for years people in the UK at least, were told that 'buckskin' was just the North American term for dun,
like sorrel is just another word for chestnut although now it appears to be used for distinct shades, and palomino...!
Hah! Don't start me on that, I have a palomino that genetically ISN'T a palomino. Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhh.:mad:

Sorry, no help on the genetic side of thing. Someone will be on though no doubt.
Click to expand...
 
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thank you -

you'd be surprised how many people think he has connie in him, lol. Prob why i liked him so much as I am a sucker for a nice connie.... but no... not a smidgen in him whatsoever.

so - it definately cant have come from the highland? so there must be cream dilute in the TB or anglo arab lines then?
 
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whirlwindhorses said:
He is a lovely horse. No cream in Arabs, there is cream in TB's but its very rare and i think only been recently introduced into this country from America. Accondy was grey, with a bay sire and grey dam, no palomino or buckskin colours recorded
http://www.pedigreequery.com/accondy
Click to expand...


thank you! must have come from the highland then?:confused: im confused... didnt someone say they cant carry creme either?

ETA -or it could have come from the TB input on the Dam side, in the angloarab?
 
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We have a buckskin, his dam is a cramello and sire a light bay. We contacted the cramello society who gave us info on how the buckskin colour comes about.
His sister, who's sire is dark bay (almost black), is a smokey colour. And if we were to put the mare to a chestnut she would throw a palamino.
 
NeverSayNever said:
thank you! must have come from the highland then?:confused: im confused... didnt someone say they cant carry creme either?

ETA -or it could have come from the TB input on the Dam side, in the angloarab?
Click to expand...

Def looks buckskin to me, which means he is a bay carrying one cream gene, if he had two he would be a perlino :) if he was a chesnut he would be a palomino. If his dam was a black, she may have carried one cream gene and was actually a smokey black

The cream gene does not exist in the highland pony so it is impossible for it to have come from there.

It is always possible that one of the greys in his ancestry carried the cream gene and it has been hidden by the grey gene, which, like the cream, is also a modifying gene ie - it has an effect on a base coat colour. Greys are not born grey, they are born either black, bay, chestnut or indeed any colour, if they inherit a grey gene from either or both parents then the colour fades to grey over time.


You can have him tested for the cream gene and would probably be worth it :D
 
im pretty sure his lines are right as he is registered with Sport Horse Soc of GB and was DNA tested as a foal.... SirenaXVI that makes sense, thank you :) whirlwind.. after beth of campsie they are angloarab x highland, so could it have come from the tb there?
i am finding it really interesting learning all this stuff!
 
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DNA testing of foal is to record parentage and won't bring up a whoopsie dating to before DNA records. It is quite possible for the cream gene to be in Highlands as before the studbook was closed a travelling Welshie or Shetland could have been in the mix. Cream can be hidden by grey or dun. There have been no recorded purebreds but that doesn't mean it is not there in a breed with so many duns and greys.

A £17.50 cream gene test would settle the argument.

BTW champagne is yet another gene.
 
s4sugar said:
DNA testing of foal is to record parentage and won't bring up a whoopsie dating to before DNA records. It is quite possible for the cream gene to be in Highlands as before the studbook was closed a travelling Welshie or Shetland could have been in the mix. Cream can be hidden by grey or dun. There have been no recorded purebreds but that doesn't mean it is not there in a breed with so many duns and greys.

A £17.50 cream gene test would settle the argument.

BTW champagne is yet another gene.
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Ahh, ok, that also makes sense - sorry for being dense though, but if i get his tested, what would the results actually prove or disprove? doesnt the fact he is Bucksin mean he must have it? oooh im confused:confused:

i have added him to allbreeds also

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/rest+and+be+thankful+champagne+charlie
 
If you get him tested for cream it will prove which he is - buckskin or dun.
If he has the cream gene he is buckskin, without it he is dun.

I had my foal tested as a baby so I could insure him as he was a weird shade and could have been chestnut or palomino ( Sire palomino, dam bay);-

DSCF1158.jpg

He does not have cream and shed out to a pale chestnut. This year he is a golden shade of chestnut that is just within the shades required for palomino registration if he had the white mane and tail.
He is still a chestnut though.
 
s4sugar said:
If you get him tested for cream it will prove which he is - buckskin or dun.
If he has the cream gene he is buckskin, without it he is dun.

I had my foal tested as a baby so I could insure him as he was a weird shade and could have been chestnut or palomino ( Sire palomino, dam bay);-

DSCF1158.jpg

He does not have cream and shed out to a pale chestnut. This year he is a golden shade of chestnut that is just within the shades required for palomino registration if he had the white mane and tail.
He is still a chestnut though.
Click to expand...

awww your foalie is sooo cute!


im still confused though - i didnt think there was any question over him being buckskin?:confused:
 
http://www.pedigreequery.com/gainsborough+comet The missing TB lines are on this one. Still nothing with cream but its possible they may have been reg as bay or brown, i think the GSB has only just accepted Palomino and cremello as colours in this country. Go back into breeding forum and start a new thread asking if any one knows whether any of the above TB lines carry cream. You could also put a post on this forum:
http://www.equinecolor.info they may know the TB lines. Otherwise it must be through the Highland line if he is definately the right horse.
 
well after some digging for a phone number - i managed to ring Charlie's breeders!! I spoke to an elderly man who sounded a little shaky to start with , as I explained why I was calling. Then he said "it was my wife who bred Charlie, and she would have been so pleased to talk to you, but Im afraid she passed away just there in April" :( Oh my, I had to fight back the tears:( He went on to say he although he had little to do with the horses, he does remember my charlie as he was such a gorgeous foal - he was handled from day 1 and was always a lovely natured soul. He told me story of when he was a youngster there was a fire in the stableblock and he had to go in and rescue the horses, and he said Charlie didnt panic, he stayed calm and followed him out surrounded by flames!! :eek: He also told me his Mum, Gainsborough Countess, was his wife's main riding horse of 20 years, and she was the same colour as Charlie, although he said Dun ;)!! I asked him, are you sure? Did she have a dorsal stripe? And he said "no she didnt, and Charlie wouldnt either, he is too well bred to have a dorsal stripe" EEk, lol, bit of high opinion and how misinformed could you be?! lol - but I'l let him off, he was lovely really.

we have swapped addresses and he said as he goes through his wife's things, if he finds anything that might interest me he will let me know, he has also said Im welcome to visit to see where Charlie was raised.

So now we definately know the colour comes from his mum somehow!
 
i guess it must mean that some of the history on the dam's side side isnt accuare then - since highland cant carry cream, nor arab, and the tb part dont have any cream in them... im presuming the best guess is that there was a partbred highland with some connie or welsh in there? (as stolensilver said on my other thread i think)
 
I have sometting similar - Registered cream dun, no dorsal stripe.. he is arab x irish sports with some recorded breeding history on the irish sports horse side..
DandyShow00-1.jpg
 
ahh greenlivery, another one! yours looks buckskin too - lovely horse!

im still pondering the highland not being able to carry cream:o cos there are mentions of cream dun, and thats a dilute? ive also read that the dorsal stripe can be inherited separately, is that right?
 
This is so interesting, I'll put my money on connie!

Edited as I just read your post above. Highlands definitely don't have cream, there IS a colour called cream dun but it is nothing to do with the dilute gene. I believe cream dun occurs when a chestnut has both grey and dun genes, I have a grey dun he would be black but has grey and dun. His sister is cream dun but is definitely not a dilute.
 
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