Where is the thread about the poor pony being dragged behind a van?

[FanyDuChamp]

Where has the pony being dragged gone?
I was following it and get up and it has disappeared?
FDC

 

[OzzyBuffy]

Where has the pony being dragged gone?
I was following it and get up and it has disappeared?
FDC

There was an apparent ''button pusher'' who supposedly got the thread removed BUT it could just be that admin saw the thread unfit to view and removed it for breech of T&C's...not sure...but either way it's gone! Perhaps google it?

 

[Eriskayowner]

See the other thread in here "well at least we know who's a button pusher" OWTTE. Should explain it!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Oh for Christ sake its news its fact how can they remove a post which actually happened to one of the members sheesh its like being in kinder garden watch your p&Q,s every one in bed by teat time . And I thought ebays rules suck . If you can write about something that happened, on here are all the mods old and grey and living in pre historic times??

 

[Pedantic]

Was just looking for it myself........

 

[DragonSlayer]

We are MEANT to live in a democracy that allows freedom of speech....yeah right!

Didn't get to read the whole thread as had important things to do with the horses last night (ragwort pulling....marvellous) but to see mention of the Holocaust on the 'who pushed the button thread' made it very clear to me....just what some people will be saying...AND thinking!

Why get upset? When a group of people are seemingly living above the law, is it any wonder others will become passionate over it?

The question remains, WILL anything be done over the blatant cruelty? Or will people sit and say 'oo..thats bad that is...mentioning stuff from the past...'..

My question - Which is more important, dealing with the here and now, getting full exposure to a nasty and completely unavoidable incident, OR getting your knickers in a twist over events that took place over 60-odd years ago, to which we are completely powerless to change?

..and don't dare anyone come back with crap like 'does that mean you don't care about the 60-odd years ago??'....because that will just show your immaturity.

 

[lamehorse]

i just dont get how they get away with it . i mean why wont the police go on a site ? they cant be scared or we would have complete anarchy . it must be the way that the government says to deal with them surely . why dont we all refuse to ask for planning permission and appeal and appeal. why dont we all refuse to tax and insure our cars ? all go on the dole ? all threaten people when we feel like it ? you cant live in a society like that can you ? yet they expect us to tow the line when a MINORITY dont , but that MINORITY is getting bigger and bigger and stronger and unfortunatley the english gentleman is a dying breed ! we ARE sleep walking into a very changed britain and its not good. thats just my take on it and i believe all decent people , whats left of them , feel the same. its not racism or anything you want to call it , but decent common sense , respect for others ,kindness ,a feeling of pride and community . all the things lost by the way things are going. rambling rant over

 

[touchstone]

This is one forum that I thought might be a bit more democratic as far as allowing free speech (wrong). I didn't see the whole of the thread, only the first few posts, but to have it delected because someone deemed what was said politically incorrect is ridiculous.

We are so concerned about not offending folks in this country that blatant cruelty is allowed to continue, it's about time this country got some backbone and stood up for what is morally right instead of pussyfooting around.

 

[Kenzo]

I think it was right that the thread was put to bed actually.

 

[tazzle]

freedom of speech is one thing.... but to insinuate and even say that ALL gypsies / travellers should be gassed because of what some of them do is atrocious .......... and that was said / insinuated as being appropriate for the present and approving of genocide ....

that is like saying all italians should be exterminated because of the Mafia .

I find it shocking that so many people are defending the principle of genocide and berating someone who will not condemn all for the "sins" of some.




I agree for sure that those who commit crimes should be dealt with with the full force of the law ( and wish that it could be so) and I am neither defending or condeming travellers / gypsies as a race / community. ...... but let us address the behaviour / individuals .

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

The prob I think is that whatever the merits of the thread, gypsies and travellers are a protected ethnic minority (despite being a conveniently self defined one!) and hence the sort of comments some posters resorted to would be classed as a criminal offence of inciting racial hatred in the eyes of some.

I do think those comments were inappropriate and wrong, but dont see why those posts could not be pulled leaving the thread in place.

Im not on the travellers side here, I used to live very near a site and witnessed horses on the floor being beaten, dead horses being dumped etc. Small council run site yet police would only go in with helicopter and armed backup. Says it all really, if these were council estates they would have been sorted out years ago. The police are way too scared of the 'racism' label, and the travellers way too good at evading prosecution for criminality, assisted by state aid. Our MP was even called racist by another MP for pointing out in the Commons that we already had the highest no of gypsy sites in the region and being asked to have the highest increase in numbers on top of that was unsustainable. (The other MP mouthed it over and over without saying it audibly so that it didnt get into Hansard).

Its the elephant in the room issue a bit like immigration used to be. You cant have a rational discussion about it without the race card being thrown.

A lot of it is disingenuous too, in our area travellers always applied for new sites claiming childrens continuity of education as the justification; yet over 90% of traveller kids in the area were withdrawn from education at 11 because the families wanted them to (boys) start 'work' with their fathers or (girls) take over the house cleaning and childcare and critically NOT to have sex education which going to school would have meant.

Until there is some type of criteria applied to who can claim to be a gypsy traveller there is no end to this conflict. And until trespass is made criminal not civil like it is in most other places there will be no improvement.

 

[unicornleather]

The prob I think is that whatever the merits of the thread, gypsies and travellers are a protected ethnic minority (despite being a conveniently self defined one!) and hence the sort of comments some posters resorted to would be classed as a criminal offence of inciting racial hatred in the eyes of some.

I do think those comments were inappropriate and wrong, but dont see why those posts could not be pulled leaving the thread in place.

Im not on the travellers side here, I used to live very near a site and witnessed horses on the floor being beaten, dead horses being dumped etc. Small council run site yet police would only go in with helicopter and armed backup. Says it all really, if these were council estates they would have been sorted out years ago. The police are way too scared of the 'racism' label, and the travellers way too good at evading prosecution for criminality, assisted by state aid. Our MP was even called racist by another MP for pointing out in the Commons that we already had the highest no of gypsy sites in the region and being asked to have the highest increase in numbers on top of that was unsustainable. (The other MP mouthed it over and over without saying it audibly so that it didnt get into Hansard).

Its the elephant in the room issue a bit like immigration used to be. You cant have a rational discussion about it without the race card being thrown.

A lot of it is disingenuous too, in our area travellers always applied for new sites claiming childrens continuity of education as the justification; yet over 90% of traveller kids in the area were withdrawn from education at 11 because the families wanted them to (boys) start 'work' with their fathers or (girls) take over the house cleaning and childcare and critically NOT to have sex education which going to school would have meant.

Until there is some type of criteria applied to who can claim to be a gypsy traveller there is no end to this conflict. And until trespass is made criminal not civil like it is in most other places there will be no improvement.

VERY good comment and very true, no doubt this post will be pulled too as it contains the facts!
Oz

 

[Spotsrock]

Op other half was rightly cautious so perhaps op removed at his urging for her own safety? I do hope op stays safe in all this. Very commendable that she wants to help but I am worried.

 

[lannerch]

Trotters are often excercised by being tied to the back of a van and the van driven round at trotting speed.
Did not read the original thread Was it similar to this as the trotters I see are not at all connected with the travelling community.

 

[Spudlet]

freedom of speech is one thing.... but to insinuate and even say that ALL gypsies / travellers should be gassed because of what some of them do is atrocious .......... and that was said / insinuated as being appropriate for the present and approving of genocide ....

that is like saying all italians should be exterminated because of the Mafia .

I find it shocking that so many people are defending the principle of genocide and berating someone who will not condemn all for the "sins" of some.




I agree for sure that those who commit crimes should be dealt with with the full force of the law ( and wish that it could be so) and I am neither defending or condeming travellers / gypsies as a race / community. ...... but let us address the behaviour / individuals .

Quite right.

Some people are cruel or neglectful to horses.

Some people who are cruel or neglectful to horses live in caravans.

Some people who are cruel or neglectful to horses have never seen a caravan in their lives, but live in very nice houses, with very nice gardens, and make a very nice living selling horses to the very nice people who live around them, and see the cruelty and neglect everyday, and say nothing and do nothing about it because you see, that wouldn't be very nice. And anyway, everyone knows that cruelty and neglect are things done by not very nice people who live in caravans, not by very nice people like us. So those half-starved little things we see can't possibly be being abused, because the person who owns them is a very nice person.

Not all people who live in very nice houses abuse or negelct their horses. Not all people who live in caravans abuse or neglect their horses.

The important ones in all this are the ones with the hooves and the pointy ears, not the people. Focus in on the people, and especially focus in on a group of people as a whole, and you risk missing out on the really important ones.

 

[FanyDuChamp]

freedom of speech is one thing.... but to insinuate and even say that ALL gypsies / travellers should be gassed because of what some of them do is atrocious .......... and that was said / insinuated as being appropriate for the present and approving of genocide ....

that is like saying all italians should be exterminated because of the Mafia .

I find it shocking that so many people are defending the principle of genocide and berating someone who will not condemn all for the "sins" of some.




I agree for sure that those who commit crimes should be dealt with with the full force of the law ( and wish that it could be so) and I am neither defending or condeming travellers / gypsies as a race / community. ...... but let us address the behaviour / individuals .

If it got that bad then I agree it should have been pulled.
FDC

 

[wireweiners]

Can an American ask a dumb question? I have been watching "My Big, Fat, Gypsy wedding on US TV. On one of the episodes, they were talking about Traveller sites being demolished. I got the impression that the Traveller families had purchased the land and had built/parked trailers on it and were now being forced to move. Can you tell me why? From many of the posts about the Travellers I have read on H&H, I can see why no one would want them as neighbors but I couldn't tell from the TV show why their settlements were being destroyed if they had purchased the land.

Also, I get the impression that they most work menial jobs or don't work at all and have beaucoup kids. So how on God's green earth do they afford those big fancy weddings? Why do the girls dress like sluts when they are supposed to be "pure" until they are married?

Oh, and I suppose y'all are aware that the colored hairy cobs or "Gypsy Vanners" as they are called here, sell for fantastic prices here in the US. Like in the 5 figure range. Is that how they pay for their weddings, conning gullible Americans into paying big dollars for what are apparently common horses in the UK? LOL

 

[Red30563]

Can an American ask a dumb question? I have been watching "My Big, Fat, Gypsy wedding on US TV. On one of the episodes, they were talking about Traveller sites being demolished. I got the impression that the Traveller families had purchased the land and had built/parked trailers on it and were now being forced to move. Can you tell me why?

There are a couple of very big traveller sites in the county where I live. The land is owned by the travellers but they don't have planning permission to build on it (It is designated agricultural land). They have built bathroom buildings (they won't use the shower/loo in their trailer - you may have seen travellers explaining this on MBFGW), roads, drains and, in some cases, bungalows - all of this construction is illegal.

After many appeals and protests etc by the travelling/gypsy comunity, the council have decided to forcibly take down the illegal buildings. I don't know how it works in the States but here, just because you own land, it doesn't mean you can necessarily build on it.

 

[wireweiners]

Ok, that makes sense. Yes, here in the US if land is zoned for a particular use, you can't use if for something else. On the show they made it sound like the big evil establishment was picking on the poor gypsies. I saw the part about no toilets in their trailers. I thought that was just nasty. Do they build bath houses with flushing toilets like they have at some park campsites or do they just do an outhouse type toilet? Sorry to be asking so many questions but I've kind of gotten hooked on the show. It's like watching a train wreck.

 

[darkhorse123]

Ok, that makes sense. Yes, here in the US if land is zoned for a particular use, you can't use if for something else. On the show they made it sound like the big evil establishment was picking on the poor gypsies. I saw the part about no toilets in their trailers. I thought that was just nasty. Do they build bath houses with flushing toilets like they have at some park campsites or do they just do an outhouse type toilet? Sorry to be asking so many questions but I've kind of gotten hooked on the show. It's like watching a train wreck.

in my area we have illegal travellers often - we the taxpayers pay to take them to court to evict them. No they wont deficiate in their caravans so they go in peoples gardens, whenever they are near crime rate rises - ask yourself, what traveller have you ever heard of doing good for society in general
My local council costs to remove their rubbish is £50, 000
Hardworking people pay this bill - why????
Im all for equality but some take mick and people are gettign fed up

 

[darkhorse123]

So????
Give me the name of any traveller who has done any good for society and i will bow my head and apoligise

see you soon guys - i will be banned but i dont care xxxx

 

[darkhorse123]

for telling the truth - as others darent!!!!
Police told us to hide our cobs when travellers were around!!!!

 

[Tormenta]

I'm afraid the new type of travellers I have no sympathy or empathy for.

I tried to complain to the police about trespass in my garden (children included smashing pots, shouting foul abuse) and when I tried to reason with their Mother I received a mouthful of abuse and how her children are used to freedom. My youngest child was 2 and half years old at the time and he was constantly chased and harassed everytime we were in the garden. The Police actually told me to 'tolerate' it because they would move once they had upset the community enough (My elderly neigbour who was dying of cancer wasn't enough). Yeah Thanks. They tried to run over one of my dogs in front of me and my children because I had spoken up. Luckily they caught her hip and she managed to clear the front wing with some bruising.

So No, no sympathy from me at all. Whoever these new travellers are can go waste in the firey flames of hell. And I sympathise with any poor beggar who comes across them. Dirty shites.

 

[DragonSlayer]

I'm afraid the new type of travellers I have no sympathy or empathy for.

I tried to complain to the police about trespass in my garden (children included smashing pots, shouting foul abuse) and when I tried to reason with their Mother I received a mouthful of abuse and how her children are used to freedom. My youngest child was 2 and half years old at the time and he was constantly chased and harassed everytime we were in the garden. The Police actually told me to 'tolerate' it because they would move once they had upset the community enough (My elderly neigbour who was dying of cancer wasn't enough). Yeah Thanks. They tried to run over one of my dogs in front of me and my children because I had spoken up. Luckily they caught her hip and she managed to clear the front wing with some bruising.

So No, no sympathy from me at all. Whoever these new travellers are can go waste in the firey flames of hell. And I sympathise with any poor beggar who comes across them. Dirty shites.

We have a dog, one reason we got said dog was to stop 'travellers' wandering into the yard 'got any scrap, duck?'...

A large sign on the wall saying 'Caution, our dog bites' has been a great deterrent.....

 

[Serenity087]

Ok, that makes sense. Yes, here in the US if land is zoned for a particular use, you can't use if for something else. On the show they made it sound like the big evil establishment was picking on the poor gypsies. I saw the part about no toilets in their trailers. I thought that was just nasty. Do they build bath houses with flushing toilets like they have at some park campsites or do they just do an outhouse type toilet? Sorry to be asking so many questions but I've kind of gotten hooked on the show. It's like watching a train wreck.

Some local travellers have a portaloo which they pop behind their caravan, just cos they don't use the van doesn't mean they have to be dirty!

And hell, I'll pee in a bush if I'm caught short!

Whilst although planning laws dictate what the land can be used for, if a building is sited for a certain length of time without objection then it doesn't need planning permission. Also I've seen travellers be very... imaginative... when turning the planning proposals into a real building

Darkhorse123, say what you like. These new fangled "dirty travellers" are generally scum and even Romani and other gypsies won't tolerate them. Quickest way to insult a true gypsy is to call one of these "chavs in a van" a gypsy!!

FTR though, MBFGW is travellers, tinkers, the irish lot... not Romani or true Gypsies. Apparently one doesn't discuss it in a Romani's kitchen!!

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

It was interesting that the local gypsy and traveller liaison officer tried to claim that the traveller sites were not costing local people a penny (ignoring the masses of fly tipping and crimes surrounding the site they never got prosecuted for due to dragging heels authorities and police).

When dug into further, he explained that all the council tax element from the rent they paid (it was an official council site) was ring fenced in a pot and used to run the site/clear up tipping etc.

That sounds OK until you realise that this means that they are the only citizens of this country to be able to earmark the whole of their council tax to be spent on themselves and their homes and none of it to go to any of the local services (health, education, roads etc) that the rest of us mugs are funding.....

He really didnt get why that would make local villagers a bit cross!