'Where there's Blame There's a Claim'

[McCauley]

Following on from a thread i've just read through.... Why is it that nowadays, if it's not YOUR fault, then it's obviously someone else's and they MUST PAY..

I'm sorry but this attitude that seems to have come about over the last few years of claiming for this that and the other and sueing folk for things that quite frankly are laughable is very sad and i get angry at this attitude that seems to have crept into our lives.

Ads on the TV don't help either with all these agencys saying..' if you've had an accident...blah blah blah'..

Granted i realise some instances are genuine and claims must be made/sought after, but come on, we seem to be bringing up a generation that don't/cant'/won't stand on their own two feet, look to lay the blame for something/anything that's going wrong in their lives and expect and cash handout!

Hah... what a load of moaning wimps they are.. god help them if life really DID get tough.

Ah that's better,..just getting it off my chest.... Just my opinion you understand and not aimed at anyone in particular,...just the state play as i see it as the present time.

 

[RunToEarth]

Whilst I agree that this blame/claim culture has gone slightly crackers, it has also demonstrated the need for a lot of businesses and industries to introduce much more rigorous health and safety procedures which undoubtedly benefit everyone working in the industry.

The positive of it means that a lot of industries are safer places to be, and as a result there is less margin for error and less opportunity for people to sue.

 

[misskk88]

I agree.

I get sick of seeing situations where incidences or accidents have occured, yet there is no particular person or company at fault- it is just one of those things!

When it comes to my horse, if she were to get hurt from someone elses ignorance or stupidity (I am on full livery and I mean by the way of not taking correct precautions or safety measures), then maybe I would kick up a fuss and expect some kind of compensation, however I get the feeling some people would try and claim even if it is them at fault, or for something purely accidental, just because it was on a livery yard, someone elses land or under someone elses services....

Sigh!

 

[rowan666]

This is a pet hate of mine especially horse related ones like someone falls off someone elses horse and because they have a bit of bruised ego they sue the owner (i know someone trying to do this, daft cow shouldnt have got on a horse she knew she wasnt capable of riding, not to mention she was massively too big for it!) Ride at your own risk! Surely that is common sence!? Well it used to be anyway.

 

[Meems]

I quite agree with you, drives me slightly nuts too. Having been brought up in the 70's when there was no such thing and we all seemed to manage to get by without suing right, left and centre, maybe we were just made of sterner stuff in those days!

 

[STRIKER]

They are not suing you they are suing your insurers so why worry, thats what insurance is for, might make people more responsible, even those selling ponies that are dangerous or unsuitable.

Agree made of sterner stuff, folk are not strong anymore, sigh

 

[McCauley]

Yep...i'm a late 60's baby and i too agree we seem to be have been made with tougher stuff back then... .

 

[Fun Times]

They are not suing you they are suing your insurers so why worry, thats what insurance is for, might make people more responsible, even those selling ponies that are dangerous or unsuitable.

Agree made of sterner stuff, folk are not strong anymore, sigh

STRIKER, I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic here or not?, Assuming you are not, then the problem with everyone suing each other's insurance company is that, ultimately, we do pay - through ridiculous premiums. You only have to look at some of the recent threads about people's horse insurance going up to see that premia adjustments tend to be one way only. I recall a number of riding schools going out of business five or six years ago due to insurance cost increases. Also, irrespective of insurance, it's as though a huge number of people have just decided that from now on, should anything not going entirely perfectly in life, they want financial recompense. I just don't get it. I am not saying that where you have been genuinely hurt/suffered property damage, you shouldn't claim. What I am saying is that there are a lot of claims which seem to be based more on "no fault" situations or because of mild inconvenience caused. And the argument of "oh well they have insurance" is a bit like saying it's o.k to nick your neighbour's car because they have insurance.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

They are not suing you they are suing your insurers so why worry, thats what insurance is for,

I dont have insurance as I believe its a rip off and I have no wish to pay out purely to make life easy for those who would sue me. I insure only where legally necessary. I hate the sueing culture, though I think health and safety at work is a good idea to prevent employees being put at risk by employers who don't care about their welfare. People generally don't seem to want to take responsibility for their own actions these days or do anything to reduce risks themselves, they prefer to blame somebody else for anything that happens. I find it lazy, pathetic and feeble minded TBH. Those who have suffered from someone's negligence and deserve a payout tend not to be the people who moan on about it endlessly to anyone who will listen.

 

[pansymouse]

I use it as a cast iron excuse not to let anyone else ride my horse!

 

[Jnhuk]

Side effect of having too many d@mn lawyers coming out of uni. They've got to make mischief somewhere.


OBITUARY: THE SAD PASSING OF COMMON SENSE


Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and maybe it was my fault. Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting (adults, not children, are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned, but overbearing, regulations were set in place.

Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate, teenagers suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition. Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they had themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer paracetamol, sun lotion or plaster to a pupil, but could not inform the parents when a pupil became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband, churches became businesses and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home, but the burglar could sue you for assault because you protected yourself and your own.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman failed to realise that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust, his wife, Discretion, his daughter, Responsibility and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know My Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm A Victim. Not many attended his funeral because so few realised that he was gone.

If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

Author Unknown

 

[Nessa4]

They are not suing you they are suing your insurers so why worry, thats what insurance is for, might make people more responsible, even those selling ponies that are dangerous or unsuitable.

Agree made of sterner stuff, folk are not strong anymore, sigh

Because it's this sort of thing that puts up insurance premiums.

 

[Clare85]

They are not suing you they are suing your insurers so why worry, thats what insurance is for, might make people more responsible, even those selling ponies that are dangerous or unsuitable.

Agree made of sterner stuff, folk are not strong anymore, sigh

The more people that claim, the higher insurance premiums will rise...for everyone! Insurance should not be for people to just go around making money willy nilly out of completely unworthy situations, it should be for those who have genuine claims.

 

[fatpiggy]

I honestly think everyone so far has missed the most obvious point - it is EASY MONEY. A friend's sister had very minor injuries when the bus she was standing upon ( out of choice because she was only going a couple of stops), braked suddenly. She claimed for everything going including whiplash and walked away (laughing) with £3000 - this was about 15 years ago mind. She said that whenever she saw the doctor about it she just said ow when asked if something hurt and that was all. If you are having a hard time financially or are just plain greedy like the vast majority of claimants (it is a career choice up here in the NW and crash for cash is endemic) the odd £8000 or so is a new car and a holiday. And of course, since "everyone" is doing it you don't want to lose out.

I'm afraid honesty and morals went out of the same window as common sense. I've been involved in 3 car crashes in my lifetime and have never claimed a penny for anything other than the repairs to my car. Perhaps I'm stupid.

 

[Izzwall]

I feel a bit bad when I read threads like this as I'm currently suing my old work place. They had bathroom tiles on a kitchen floor that was lethal when wet, so much so you had to slid your feet across the floor so you don't fall over. One day I didn't notice it was wet by the dish washer and I slipped and landed on a corner of a metal sink. I snapped two ribs, had months off work, got into serious debt due to not working/no sick pay then they sacked me. I've now got permanent nerve damage and have to be on tablets for probably the rest of my life. I wasn't going to claim but my OH pretty much made me and I'm glad I did! Plus my fellow employees told me to as they've been telling the employers for years the floor was dangerous and someone had already broken their ankle on it. I got £5000 in debt as I couldn't pay my livery, then my horse got ill and I had to have him put down then my insurance didn't pay out plus other rather bad things happening. I know for a fact if my injury hadn't happened I wouldn't of gotten in so much in debt. I do agree though regarding petty claims that's resulted through lack of common sense/stupidity. Hate the fact the world is so money orientated nowadays...

 

[Zero00000]

I feel a bit bad when I read threads like this as I'm currently suing my old work place. They had bathroom tiles on a kitchen floor that was lethal when wet, so much so you had to slid your feet across the floor so you don't fall over. One day I didn't notice it was wet by the dish washer and I slipped and landed on a corner of a metal sink. I snapped two ribs, had months off work, got into serious debt due to not working/no sick pay then they sacked me. I've now got permanent nerve damage and have to be on tablets for probably the rest of my life. I wasn't going to claim but my OH pretty much made me and I'm glad I did! Plus my fellow employees told me to as they've been telling the employers for years the floor was dangerous and someone had already broken their ankle on it. I got £5000 in debt as I couldn't pay my livery, then my horse got ill and I had to have him put down then my insurance didn't pay out plus other rather bad things happening. I know for a fact if my injury hadn't happened I wouldn't of gotten in so much in debt. I do agree though regarding petty claims that's resulted through lack of common sense/stupidity. Hate the fact the world is so money orientated nowadays...

See in my eyes, this is what insurance is for!
The injury had a direct and catastrophic result on your life, where as I fell over a palette at a local feed store due to its placing, I busted my shin pretty bad, there is still a rather sore lump on my shin, the amount of people that told me to sue, it was painful, yet, unsightly, and falling over is very embarrassing, but my life did not suffer as a result, I did email the company and had a chat, I'm waiting for the outcome, but I wouldn't have sued them!

 

[RunToEarth]

Side effect of having too many d@mn lawyers coming out of uni. They've got to make mischief somewhere.

Working in a profession who use solicitors on a daily basis, but also appreciate the level of skill and knowledge not only in the field I work in but also most other aspects of life, I find that a bit of a stupid comment.

It might have been a simpler time for you all in the 60s, but it was undoubtedly a more dangerous time to be working - dangers of all kinds of things like asbestos, legionnaires, working at height, everything to do with agriculture and mining were nowhere near as heavily legislated and as a result employers did less and accidents happened more often.

The claim culture has at least encouraged employers and people in general who have a duty of care to a person to be more pragmatic in their approach to safety and welbeing. They prevent stupid accidents like Izzwall's from happening - because common sense states that you warn people when the floor is wet, and in a kitchen you do not have a slippery bathroom surface.

 

[fatpiggy]

I feel a bit bad when I read threads like this as I'm currently suing my old work place. They had bathroom tiles on a kitchen floor that was lethal when wet, so much so you had to slid your feet across the floor so you don't fall over. One day I didn't notice it was wet by the dish washer and I slipped and landed on a corner of a metal sink. I snapped two ribs, had months off work, got into serious debt due to not working/no sick pay then they sacked me. I've now got permanent nerve damage and have to be on tablets for probably the rest of my life. I wasn't going to claim but my OH pretty much made me and I'm glad I did! Plus my fellow employees told me to as they've been telling the employers for years the floor was dangerous and someone had already broken their ankle on it. I got £5000 in debt as I couldn't pay my livery, then my horse got ill and I had to have him put down then my insurance didn't pay out plus other rather bad things happening. I know for a fact if my injury hadn't happened I wouldn't of gotten in so much in debt. I do agree though regarding petty claims that's resulted through lack of common sense/stupidity. Hate the fact the world is so money orientated nowadays...

You shouldn't feel bad about making a genuine claim, and clearly this has been a horrible time for you simply because other people didn't listen to the warnings. I have no problem with that at all. You can't argue that x-rays showing broken ribs aren't genuine! Your employer sounds like they are getting a dose of karma frankly so good luck to you!

 

[Kat]

There might be a perception of a claim culture but in law it is more difficult to get a successful claim home now than it has been sonce the 1970s!

Personal injury claims in negligence are nothing new, they were around on victorian times. But until the 90s legal services were heavily regulated and solicitors weren't permitted to advertise freely.

 

[Carrieann123]

I wonder if many horse owners know that Public Liability insurance doesnt generally cover your horses "interaction" with another horses.?
I have only found this out after being sued after my 9 hand pony did "damage" to another horse kept in the same field.
Its a nightmarex

 

[STRIKER]

Can that wonderful letter about common sense be sent to our Prime Minister i am sure he will really appreciate it, makes such good reading.

Yes our premiums go up, but they will go up whether you are sued or not because everyone else is being sued, the insurance companies use the money from one big coffer, so whether you and i are good makes no difference we suffer because of everyone else. Yup, thats life!

 

[Red-1]

If my injury were life changing and not my fault then I would have to claim. I think most people would. I have not had to take this course of action despite some inevitable breaks, knocks and strains that I would consider normal for training young and large horses for a living.

I did almost cause my employer to be sued though, unintentionally. I broke my arm re-training a fearful horse, and whilst doing ground work just lost my footing and fell down. The fall itself was no problem, except that the fragile horse's confidence was shattered as I fell with my hand through the reins (did not start there, but fell there while I was walking). The horse flipped and flipped me up by my arm, pulling the top right off my arm.

Initially it looked like it would need pinning and plating, and Yay, I was covered by BUPA. After expensive scans and consultations I was patched up, 3 months later back at work, and I thought that would be the end of it.

We were all surprised when I got a letter from BUPA explaining that they would like to claim some or all of the expenses back from my place of work. Eeek, that is not what I expected.

I wrote a letter explaining how it was all my fault for falling, I was in the correct footwear, on good footing etc, it was just an accident. y employer was saved the expense, but it shook me up how claiming may have been taken out of my hands.

 

[Kat]

@meems
The 70s started it all with trade unionism anf health and safety at work legislation! The classic example of a successful claim being made when no one was really at fault was made in the 70s. Stark v The Post Office, this case remained a leading authority until October 2013 when the Enterprise Act came into force.

 

[Kat]

Can that wonderful letter about common sense be sent to our Prime Minister i am sure he will really appreciate it, makes such good reading.

Yes our premiums go up, but they will go up whether you are sued or not because everyone else is being sued, the insurance companies use the money from one big coffer, so whether you and i are good makes no difference we suffer because of everyone else. Yup, thats life!

Our prime minister is doing quite a lot about the claims culture, read the legal press, Jackson reforms, the MOJ portal, the enterprise act, fixed costs, increasing small claims limits etc are having a huge impact on personal injury claims. Just look at the numbers of redundancies in the legal profession at the moment.

Of course what many people call cutting down on the claims culture others would call restricting access to justice.........

 

[BethanT]

It is all rather ridiculous. I remember my YO telling us how one livery tried to sue HER after her own horse turned and kicked her in the head when turning it out in the field.

Also heard of another story where a child was having riding lessons at a riding school, child fell off (part of learning) had a minor injur of a sprain or something, and parent sued the RS as she "Didn't realise it was a dangerous sport". As a result said RS now makes all parents and rider sign a disclaimer stating they know it is a dangerous sport. Plus being considerably short on funds as claim was successful.

I think you are right, its just an easy way to make money. I have had many incidents where I could easily have claimed. However, 1 would have been to sue a friend of a friend which I wasn't comfortable doing. When I had a car crash where someone crashed into back of me a lot of people said I should have claimed for whiplash, stress and inconvienience. Would have been an easy £2/3000 but I would have felt dishonest

 

[risky business]

If you have a genuine claim, by all means claim. Your life shouldn't come to harm or drastically be changed due to an accident especially due to negligence!

But claiming when your horse has worms? No... I do think the claim game has gone way to far these days. You have 3 categories: those who should claim, those who make an accident to claim and those claiming for stupid things.

 

[Cowpony]

A lot of companies chase people who have had an accident, telling them they can get money from their injury. I broke my ACL a few years ago and either the medical insurers or the hospital must have sold my details to the ambulance chasers. For years afterwards I got texts telling me they could get me thousands in compensation. I just laughed and deleted them - I did it skiing and it was a combination of carelessness on my part and bad visibility. Who were they proposing to sue - the fog??!! But I can imagine that if I'd been a bit short of cash and circumstances had been slightly different it would have been very easy to text back.

I don't condone the sue everybody for anything culture, but if somebody is desperate for money it must be tempting.

 

[Kat]

What do you think would have happened if you had called/text back?

Just because you get a cold call/text doesn't mean you have a claim worth pursuing. It is just a cold call hoping to find someone who has got a claim so they can sell the details. Just the same as the ones offering to save you money on your gas bill, I get those and I don't even have gas.

 

[Cowpony]

Nothing in my case, but I said "if the circumstances had been slightly different" - ie if there had been somebody to sue.

My point was that these people make it easy for those who have suffered an accident to take action, and may even encourage people to do so who wouldn't have taken the initiative themselves.

 

[Kat]

But if they have genuinely suffered injury due to someone else's negligence why shouldn't they claim compensation?

It isn't just the injured person who claims compensation either the NHS can recover costs of treatment and the DWP can recover benefits paid. Some employers can recover sick pay too.