Where would I stand?

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Mongoose11

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So, I took on lovely beginner sharer and her nine year old daughter (tall and strong for her age) and they are both proving to be wonderful! I've been 'teaching' them and the difference in them in a short space of time is very impressive.

Today, I was helping the daughter in the school and the horse bucked in to canter (exuberance) unfortunately it was a bit more than sticking a leg out and the girl came off her. No damage done but that was her first fall and it was quite a shock to her. Now I feel terrible and responsible and was wondering where I would stand legally if something like that happened again and the girl was hurt? I was very reluctant to let the nine year old try riding her in the first place but she honestly rides her beautifully!

The horse is incredibly reliable in the school and I won't see it happen again soon. I'm just feeling very reluctant all of sudden...
 
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Honestly, I would NOT be letting a 9yo ride her. It may all seem fine on the surface but horses are horses and no matter how much the parents say they are happy to accept the risk it can all change very quickly if a serious accident occurs.
Adults I less worried about but I would still be nervous unless they had a number of years experience outside of the riding school environment and would want some sort of waiver signed. It may not stand up in court but it may help.
Not sure of the legal situation but that matters little if you are faced with defending a costly legal case.
 
What would concern me is that you are "teaching" them and the ramifications this could have about you have insurance to do this if there was a problem. If the child was just sharing the horse Id be ensuring there was a contract stating she could only ride under the supervision of a parent or adequately qualified adult.
 
I'm not teaching them or receiving money for doing so - I was just helping out. I shouldn't have used the word 'teaching' as I really am just supervising in the school and giving a little advice as I know the horse. They do have rider insurance.
Thanks all.
 
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Unless you forced them on at gun point and have no insurance for your horse I really wouldn't worry.

Had the same convo with my instructor recently as I am teaching my neighbour's granddaughter to ride. My ponies are insured, this covers them for other riders being on them, I'm sure your insurance will too.

Horses are dangerous, I'm sure her mother is aware of that. Make sure she has the correct gear and assess the risks properly then you have covered yourself.

You're giving her what most of us would consider a dream childhood.
 
I'm sorry, but I think because the mother herself is a novice taking guidance from you, then you might well be seen to be responsible if the child is hurt falling from your horse, especially if you are there supervising. I don't think I would risk it.
 
If they both have their own insurance then you are covered. Probably worth a quick call to your insurance to double check and maybe they need to sign a disclaimer "riding at own risk".
 
Luci07 said:
If they both have their own insurance then you are covered. Probably worth a quick call to your insurance to double check and maybe they need to sign a disclaimer "riding at own risk".
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Can you explain how Mongoose will be covered from being sued by the child's mother or the child's insurance company by the child having their own insurance? I'm not aware of any policy which would prevent that happening?
 
Your position may be rather different from that of other horse owners because you are a teacher. I would check it out with both your insurance co and your union. The child isn't old enough to either sign a contract with you or take out her own insurance, her mother must deal with all the legal aspects. If it all checks out, I would do a written risk assessment, detailing the steps you have taken to aprise the mother of thecridks and the steps you hsvectsken go mitigate those risks. Just in case.
 
ycbm said:
Can you explain how Mongoose will be covered from being sued by the child's mother or the child's insurance company by the child having their own insurance? I'm not aware of any policy which would prevent that happening?
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Because they have taken out their own riding insurance. If you carry on reading my post, you will also see that I recommended checking with OP's own insurers and she "might" need them to sign a disclaimer. The very fact that these people have taken out their own insurance means they are aware there is a risk.
 
Mongoose, you could indeed be sued, as no one in this country can sign away their right to safety. You do need to be covered by some insurance for peace of mind, but as you are not taking money you do not technically NEED to be covered, although your house/savings etc could be at risk if there was an accident and you were found to be negligent.

This is my understanding of it, but I am not a solicitor.

I looked into this a few years ago, as I do teach professionally, but not on my own horses. Occasionally, though, a friend would ride my husband's Charlie horse, not for payment, and I wanted to be covered. My BHS Instructor's policy would not cover me when teaching on my own horse, which Charlie could have been seen as, as with a husband, what is his, is mine!

I explained that I was not teaching professionally at that time, just helping the friends to be comfortable to go off hacking. I thought we *should* be covered on my "Gold Membership" 3rd party cover, as long as the person riding was not my husband!

It took a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, but they did eventually agree that if I was just overseeing and helping in a non professional (no payment) capacity, I would be covered, but strangely, when I wanted this in writing, they would not give it in writing.

If you are a BHS member I would check with them and see if the situation is any clearer, or if a home owner, check with your home policy, as third party risks are often covered.
 
Red-1 said:
Mongoose, you could indeed be sued, as no one in this country can sign away their right to safety. You do need to be covered by some insurance for peace of mind, but as you are not taking money you do not technically NEED to be covered, although your house/savings etc could be at risk if there was an accident and you were found to be negligent.

This is my understanding of it, but I am not a solicitor.

I looked into this a few years ago, as I do teach professionally, but not on my own horses. Occasionally, though, a friend would ride my husband's Charlie horse, not for payment, and I wanted to be covered. My BHS Instructor's policy would not cover me when teaching on my own horse, which Charlie could have been seen as, as with a husband, what is his, is mine!

I explained that I was not teaching professionally at that time, just helping the friends to be comfortable to go off hacking. I thought we *should* be covered on my "Gold Membership" 3rd party cover, as long as the person riding was not my husband!

It took a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, but they did eventually agree that if I was just overseeing and helping in a non professional (no payment) capacity, I would be covered, but strangely, when I wanted this in writing, they would not give it in writing.

If you are a BHS member I would check with them and see if the situation is any clearer, or if a home owner, check with your home policy, as third party risks are often covered.
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that rider you were helping would have been insured under your BHS 3rd party cover as the person potentially getting sued (just the same as you are insured), ie that rider would not be the "3rd party" who could claim from your BHS insurance.

Also, the earlier comment about taking payment for instruction and *needing* insurance, just so everyone knows, that's not true. Its sensible, but not required by law to have public liability insurance if you're a riding instructor, so don't automatically assume any instructor (whether qualified or not) is insured. Instructors don't have to be qualified to get insurance for being an instructor either.

OP where you stand is you could potentially be sued, whether you're teaching them to ride or not, it's your horse so if they have an accident whilst riding it/handling it there is the potential to sue you. Whether they'd win or not depends on the circumstances. This is basically why nobody helps anybody out any more, because too much sueing goes on and people just don't want the risk.
 
Luci07 said:
Because they have taken out their own riding insurance. If you carry on reading my post, you will also see that I recommended checking with OP's own insurers and she "might" need them to sign a disclaimer. The very fact that these people have taken out their own insurance means they are aware there is a risk.
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The fact that they have their own insurance does not stop them suing you. And if they claim on their insurance instead of suing you, it is still possible for their insurance company to sue you to recover their costs.
 
So, remind me how anyone dares to have a sharer!?

The horse is insured and it covers any rider and they are also insured themselves privately. I'm not sure how anyone ever dares take the risk whether it be adult or child if this really is the case!

😕
 
Mongoose11 said:
So, remind me how anyone dares to have a sharer!?

The horse is insured and it covers any rider and they are also insured themselves privately. I'm not sure how anyone ever dares take the risk whether it be adult or child if this really is the case!

��
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It's a real problem in today's society :(

Unfortunately, even though being insured for £10m third party should mean you're never out of pocket, it wouldn't stop it being desperately upsetting to be sued and it would affect future insurability too.
 
Its not the having a sharer thing that's a problem, its when you teach in any capacity. Once you do that, especially in the case of an inexperienced sharer and you being a teacher it casts a different light on it. It will almost certainly never end in you being sued, but if there is a serious accident and someone is left with long term injuries they may have no option other than to sue. I'm not sure what the answer is. There is probably some sort of wording that you can put in the contract that says you aren't teaching or responsible on their days, might be worth a chat with the BHS legal department or similar.
 
Mongoose11 said:
I'm not teaching them or receiving money for doing so - I was just helping out. I shouldn't have used the word 'teaching' as I really am just supervising in the school and giving a little advice as I know the horse. They do have rider insurance.
Thanks all.
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I think the confusion here is from the word "teach", perhaps advise would be better? What did the girl's mother say at the time?

Personally I would think that as you are both insured if there was an accident then they could claim off their insurance, and if their insurance company sued you then you could claim off your insurance. Also rather than signing a disclaimer ii would type up a document saying something along the lines of " riding is a risk sport and as such I am aware that X could potentially fall and injure herself but Mongoose will take all reasonable steps to avoid this happening" (as in don't take the horse down a busy road if its not good in traffic etc.), that way they are not signing rights away -which they obviously cant do - but if they were to sue you, you could say that they were fully aware of the risks and chose to ride anyway.
 
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