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Speckleification

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So my poor mare has been through the mill since i brought her i early 2013 and we have only had a year of happy healthy horse since then. She is 17.1 and only 8yrs old. She was 15.3/16hh when i brought her and only a 6 3 rug (now 7ft)

She is now lame on 3 legs after 14 mnths of she's not sound but not lame enough we now have (both hinds (hock inflammation) LF (unknown - MRI 23/7)) her RF collapsed at the heel with no apparent cause within the space of 2 days,

She has had gamma scintigraphy of hindquarters which showed the hock inflammation, ultrasounds of all tendons front and back no damage, full spinal xrays - perfect spacing (now used for teaching students what spines should look like) full leg xrays all around all very good examples barring the collapsed heel, nerve blocking all 4 legs, improvement in hind hocks and 15% improvement in LF coffin region, no change in RF. She is booked for an mri of both front legs on Thursday this coming week, once we get those results we will decide where to go next if she will come back to work - she has the biggest heart of gold and is very intelligent and alert that i do not want to say goodbye without having done all we can. Sadly turning her away wontbe an option as she does not turn out - please do not get on my case after reading that - i have been to 7 different yards, she has been in a herd, on her own, with pets, been left without contact to sort herself out (and nearly died because of it - the vet gave her 12hrs to live) she now is perfectly happy with 3 hrs a day turnout in a small sand pen next to our yard - and yes she lived out when she came to me but the lameness and behaviour issues started with not turning out - sorry, rant over.

The vet is undecided whether to then once we have done the mri to investigate her neck ( she throws her head left and every now and again struggles to trot -goes disunited in trot - on one rein) or to treat her for what we know and leave her to it - troubles is the insurance runs out in February and i don't want to be half way through something and still none the wiser, she is perfectly happy not working but is still not herself and i feel i owe it to her to make sure she gets the best out of life as she's only 8 and has had a bit of a rough start, not physically but emotionally. Any thoughts or suggestions barring the turnout situation ( i have 3 a4 pages of professionals including MR who have been unable to work it out, his advice was do what makes her happy and that she's very special - he'd never met anyone like her)
Thanks,
Speckleification
 
hi do you have her breeding? only ask to suggest looking for siblings and see their health record. she seems to have grown a lot in 2 years, i am guessing there is some heavy or warm blood in her gene pool? how is her muscles if the nerve blocks did not prove conclusive is her muscular structure OK to support the joints? how is her immune response is there an autoimmune element to her problems with the inflammation around the joints?

just ramblings nothing specific
 
Hi Hollyandivy,
Ramblings are more then welcome and some good points there too i hadn't thought of autoimmune
She's KWPN her father is Quickstar but other then that we don't know, no brChristmaslas recorded in her passport, she did once have pink papers but that was way before my friend brought her to jump so god knows who has them and she's fairly non descript bay with one white sock and an english microchip which was put in by my friend when she came over from the netherlands. She has physio every 6 months up until christmas last year when the decision was made to stop until we got the lameness sorted, the lady who had always done my horses and me is a sports physio who is also an osteopath so covers all manner of sins but ill bring it up with my vet on Thursday,

Thank you for your suggestions, much appreciated
Speckleification
 
If she were mine, I would;

1) take her off all feed except hay/grass

2)ask my vet about acupuncture, both to sort out her muscle problems and to relax her

Does your physio do acupuncture? Or can she recommend someone who does?

As for the feed, you might not feed her, I don't know, but having had a mare with multiple behaviour and health problems which were eventually found to ALL be food related, I would definitely take this horse back to basics - no 'balancer'/supplements/treats of any kind and absolutely no chaff or mix/nuts.

It can feel as though you are never going to get to the bottom of what is causing the problems. PM me if you need more info about my mare and her food/health probs
 
Hi Pearlsasinger - great name, love it

she's on as much hay as she wants and a carrot/apple 2x a day as she has an ulcer supplement (a side effect of one YO's version of managing a horse who won't turn out)

I'll have a look into acupuncture and seewhat my vet thinks and if he can recommend someone

thanks for the advice :)
 
Interesting comments re growing. I have a big wb who I got as a 3 yo and he was about 15.3 Hes now 10 and a hefty 17hh. He took a long time to grow and he also had periods of weird unexplained issues. The first issue was when he was about 5 and he just stopped going forward, ears would flattened and if you pushed for more he'd buck. He couldn't do it on a circle at all and it was weird. We did all sorts of investigations and the vet had no idea.. although 6 years down the line Ive worked out said vet is crap and missed all sorts in him and another horse but thats another story. He would just have episodes of weird things and id back off him and let him mature. He always came back better, stronger and more willing to work.
The point being is wb do take a long time to grow and like adolescent children they get growing pains. Its a shame that you can't chuck her out to mature as Im sure that would do her the world of good. If she hates being out and spends most of her time standing then its also not helping her as horses weren't designed to stand in all day. Mine go out as much as possible although all in at night as they love their bedrooms!
I understand that box rest turns horses into completely different animals. The wb had a DDFT tear 2 years ago and through a lot of complications (thats the bit where the vet got the sack!!) he ended up spending a lot of time in, for one period 3 months over winter in a rehab yard which meant he barely went out of the big barns. Hes a different horses and naps like hell. Hes gone from someone who evented at Novice level and hacked for hours round Windsor Great Park to throwing himself down ditches when asked to leave the yard!! Its gutting so I totally understand how they change!
 
squiz22 i concur with you about the growing pains, i personally shot up like a weed and was nearly 5'7 by the time i was 11yr and it hurt like a lot and i have problems with my ligaments and can ping joints out easily.

if you look at the WB or drafts they ping up then out. my mare when i bought her as a 5 yr old was MW saddle, now is in treeless due to width and shape of back and large shoulders.

so if the larger slower growing breeds ping up then out it is possible that the muscle/ligaments/tendons are not there to support the joints sufficiently for collective working early in the ridden career which is why we see a lot of these unstable joint problems in these types, not pointing fingers at people just musing...............

original poster, can you horse eat from the ground, you mention that she will not turn out on her own or with other but fine in a sand pit, i am guessing the sandpit will have a hay net tied up off the ground, does she have a net in the stable? have you tried feeding from the floor, back in rambling mode, if she can not get the grass this might be why she would prefer to be in.................?

also final muse EPSM... better on hay and no carbohydrates inappropriate muscle metabolism will effect the joints long term ?

no more ramblings back to work
 
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Hi guys, she eats everything from the ground just in case ;-)
When she's in (during the day)she spends a good deal of her time snoozing lying down - she has a big lush straw bed to lay in and i quite often join her for a quick nap

Forgot to mention that ive had my grass, soil and hay tested by an equine forage company and all good in all categories so we know its palatable and nutritious*

she was went very gangly, unco-ordinated and disunited when she had her growth spurt but we also had the year following the growth spurt of healthy happy pony and we've not had any growth since then - thankfully!!

If any of you want to see her as she was search 'Coco Sierra - for sale' on youtube and you'll see her as she was before all this started :(

MRI at 8am tomorrow so fingers crossed we find something
 
This video in its entirety at just short of 90 minutes(full hd - my mum got a new toy) has gone with her to all the vets she has been to, including Liphook and Bell Equine and been emailed to lameness investigators at Newmarket along with a video of her as she is now and no vet has come back until the new video where she is lame on 3 legs and said she doesn't look right initally, the general consensus was she is extremely dynamic behind (which is true - it takes alot of superglue to sit to her) she does in yhe video take a few short strides behind when coming down from trot on one occasion but you can see from her conformation at the time (not sure if it's entirely clear in the video) that she lacks a little muscle through the outside rounding edges of her quarters - mainly as i hadn't at this point done nearly as much hill work with her as i would have liked
Out of curiosity in your view joulsey is there a specific point you can see a lameness or is it just in general?
 
So the MRI has come back and she Synovitis in both front legs, present in the feet and fetlocks of both.
she is booked for injections next Friday the 7th and remedial farriery is booked for tomorrow morning and then i guess we'll go from there
 
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