which bit? I just cant hold him......

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jenna25

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Hi i hope some one can help me.....i bought a french trotter last month and he is coming on like a superstar, lovely paces, walk trot and canter both reins spot on.

I've now started to jump him twice a week which he loves! but he is just sooo strong, he is in a 3 ring gag on the bottom ring at the moment to jump in, schooling he is on the middle on as he isnt strong to school. It's like pulling against a train!!

I thought of a market harborough but as he is over bending that would be no use at all. He just seems to bend his neck and use his whole body power.......

does any one know of a bit/contraption that could help me??!!

thank you :)
 
I would actually suggest schooling, schooling and then some more schooling.....

I know you probably didn't mean it literally, but you will never be able to "hold" a horse.... they are so much stronger than us. Do you have lessons? If not get yourself a good book of schooling exercises and find the ones that help fast/strong horses.
 
yeah i know he is always going to be stronger than me.....but just some control would be nice, i think i'm just going to have to practise lots with him. I dont have lessons but may get some one else in to have a ride on him and see what they think......
 
well poll pressure is clearly having no effect... I would say first try grackle the nose pressure should help, market harborough... I wouldn't bother ; ) like you say you will just end up with a pony with its head between its legs! try pelham? fulconites are magic and the curb should really help... let me know how it goes!
 
It's not the bit that's the problem. Your horse is just too excited. You need to school around the jumps and only pop one or two when he's really calm and almost bored. This worked with my jumping mad mare and other similar horses. I never had to use anything stronger than a snaffle except for one horse that was ruined by schooling in draw reins when young. She has to be ridden in a pelham for jumping.
 
He is in a grackle too :-) i think i just need to do as wagtail says and just keep them low and keep him calm inbetween the fences, like i said to school he is a dream but just gets over excited jumping.
 
Also if you've JUST started jumping he won't be able to balance himself over t'other side of the big ones so naturally will go faster to stop himself eating dust. All unbalanced horses will do this.

You have to start low and even better with gridwork over a period of about 8 weeks... yup - takes time. A quick fix bit = horrid ride in the long run.
 
I'd probably put him in a loose ring french link and see how he is then look at schooling and different nosebands, personally.
 
The only bit i can hold Hovis in is a Cheltenham gag.
I used it on the recommendation of my instructor as it takes the "fight" away - i.e. when he pulls he's pulling against himself.
I school him in a snaffle and he's as light as a feather - put a jump up or go hunting and its like trying to stop a tank!! Before anyone says its about taking the excitement away - I agree. I can just about jump him at home in a softer bit (only just) but go to a comp and forget it! Please also bear in mind 60cm to me is HUGE!
He uses his whole body and just goes "yeeeehhhhaaaaaaaa"! Nothing malicious there just pure happiness and half a tonne of muscle attached to a neck the size of a small county.....
 
I think perhaps you should take this horse right back to basics. He wont be able to pull if he has nothing to pull against. After all, it takes two to pull. If he doesnt stop when you ask for stop, this means that he doesnt understand you. Maybe someone has raced him over jumps before so now this is what he thinks he should do.

Can you trot over the jumps, or does he automatically canter over it?

Start with making sure your downward transitions are really solid. So that the instant you ask for a slower gait, he complies straight away. So trot to halts, canter to walks, and when he slows to the correct speed, release the pressure so that he learns the correct answer. Horses leanr by the release of pressure. The release is the reward for getting it right.

Its important you dont pull on him when he pulls you. This is just gonna teach him to pull more. You need to be able to ride on a slack rein too. And what i like to do is as soon as the horse tries to pull or go too fast, is bend to a stop ie the one rein stop.
This is because if the one rein stop is taught correctly, the horse will disengage the hindquarters, basically shutting off the engine. The horse cant pull on you with its head looking at your boot. But its important to teach this well so if you are interested, look it up on the internet. Its not just as simple as turning sharply. The horse has to cross its hind legs over to disengage.
So everytime the horse goes to fast, bend to a stop. Even on a slack rein, the horse will soon learn the correct speed. The horse should not change speed without us telling them to.
I would also stick to trotting over poles and jumps, to teach the horse to stay quiet and wait commands from the rider. Not enough people know how well the ORS works for strong horses, but its so much more effective than putting on a stronger bit and still having the horse pulling to some degree.

Remember, someone has taught this horse to pull and disregard rein aids, so you much teach the aids much clearer.
 
ah yes hadnt realised and stupidly didnt ask how experienced he is!! yes def practice try SMALL gridwork... cant get too fast as there is another element to think about but small enough to be easily jumpable
 
Jennyharvey said:
I think perhaps you should take this horse right back to basics. He wont be able to pull if he has nothing to pull against. After all, it takes two to pull. If he doesnt stop when you ask for stop, this means that he doesnt understand you. Maybe someone has raced him over jumps before so now this is what he thinks he should do.

Can you trot over the jumps, or does he automatically canter over it?

Start with making sure your downward transitions are really solid. So that the instant you ask for a slower gait, he complies straight away. So trot to halts, canter to walks, and when he slows to the correct speed, release the pressure so that he learns the correct answer. Horses leanr by the release of pressure. The release is the reward for getting it right.

Its important you dont pull on him when he pulls you. This is just gonna teach him to pull more. You need to be able to ride on a slack rein too. And what i like to do is as soon as the horse tries to pull or go too fast, is bend to a stop ie the one rein stop.
This is because if the one rein stop is taught correctly, the horse will disengage the hindquarters, basically shutting off the engine. The horse cant pull on you with its head looking at your boot. But its important to teach this well so if you are interested, look it up on the internet. Its not just as simple as turning sharply. The horse has to cross its hind legs over to disengage.
So everytime the horse goes to fast, bend to a stop. Even on a slack rein, the horse will soon learn the correct speed. The horse should not change speed without us telling them to.
I would also stick to trotting over poles and jumps, to teach the horse to stay quiet and wait commands from the rider. Not enough people know how well the ORS works for strong horses, but its so much more effective than putting on a stronger bit and still having the horse pulling to some degree.

Remember, someone has taught this horse to pull and disregard rein aids, so you much teach the aids much clearer.
Click to expand...

you have good advice. come and teach me :rolleyes:
 
thanks jenny that is some great advice, i did today just put poles on the floor then walked and trotted over them, then put them up to a small height, yes he is a french trotter, so is unbalanced at the moment as he hasnt done much if any schooling. i only school him in a snaffle and he goes like a dream, id love a lesson if you lived near rugby?! :)

He does do a lovely collected canter up to the jump and about 5 strides after then he just over bends and runs away a bit, which i think is his way of balancing him self??

thank you all for your advice its been a great help :)
 
Wagtail said:
It's not the bit that's the problem. Your horse is just too excited. You need to school around the jumps and only pop one or two when he's really calm and almost bored. This worked with my jumping mad mare and other similar horses. I never had to use anything stronger than a snaffle except for one horse that was ruined by schooling in draw reins when young. She has to be ridden in a pelham for jumping.
Click to expand...

This ^ I reckon he's just excited and the more schooling you do around jumps and courses the more relaxed he'll become.
 
yeah i think just some time and effort with him he will be a super star, he is only 8 so he is still learning :) would love to affiliate him next season so need to get the work in this year :D
 
jenna25 said:
thanks jenny that is some great advice, i did today just put poles on the floor then walked and trotted over them, then put them up to a small height, yes he is a french trotter, so is unbalanced at the moment as he hasnt done much if any schooling. i only school him in a snaffle and he goes like a dream, id love a lesson if you lived near rugby?! :)

He does do a lovely collected canter up to the jump and about 5 strides after then he just over bends and runs away a bit, which i think is his way of balancing him self??

thank you all for your advice its been a great help :)
Click to expand...

If he isnt balanced yet to canter over the jump, i would stick to trotting over them. A horse can easily jump a 3 foot jump from a trot. This way he will learn to jump correctly, steady and balanced. Its also a lot easier to bend to a stop from trot. so if you approach a jump in trot and he tries to canter off, you bend him to a stop immediately. Even if you walk over a small jump to start with so he realises he doesnt need to get excited.
He also cant over bend if he has nothing to pull against, so i think that allowing him some rein will help him learn too that he doesnt need to pull. You should be able to walk, trot and canter on a long rein without him taking off too fast. This way he cant pull. If he goes to fast, bend to a stop and try again. At least this has worked really well for an ex eventer that i have. anytime she saw a jump, she was straight over it full speed. Now i can jump her without a bridle on because she knows to stay in the speed i put her in.
 
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