which bit?

C

CallieAndFrankie

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 September 2012
Messages
108
Visit site
My 3 and a half year old gelding is currently ridden in a loose ring happy mouth snaffle however I can steer him fine but he just tanks off and I can't stop him no matter how many half halts I give or yanking of the reins he just won't stop. So I'm considering changing bit but don't want one that will affect a youngsters mouth or is too harsh any advice please?
 
Have you taught him voice aids? If you ask him to '*say horse's name* whoa' (halt) when walking or trotting on the lunge, does he stop? It's very handy to have young horses trained to do this, you can start teaching it even when you are leading him about in his headcollar.

I have read good things about the kineton noseband, but haven't used one myself.

The kineton noseband is an efficient way to stop the bit from hurting the mouth if the horse trips or jerks his head or seeks too heavy support or whatever. Because it moves the pressure away from the bars and onto the nose. It has a restraining function on the nose of the horse, like a hackamore without leverage. The regular, especially the drop noseband, has the same effect on the head of the horse, only, it applies its pressure via the lower jaw (which is pulled back and pulls the cavesson back which pulls on the nose). Only, the metal bit puts pressure on the bars, which can hurt. And if you pull alot on the reins, it can hurt alot. Pain. Rushing and pulling. Vicious circle.

The kineton can be adjusted so that most of the traction from the reins be taken up by the noseband, or less, or hardly anything. It can also be adjusted so that it is so short that it pulls the butts of the snaffle forward towards the nose, and thus inverts the V or U shape of the snaffle in the mouth. This is NOT how to use it.

Used in a correct way, it can help hot, rushing, sensitive horses from fearing the bit, and it can also help horses who open their mouths against a conventional noseband, because they feel them around their heads. Here, there's no chin strap, and nothing to open against. I've used this noseband successfully on many hot/unstable horses, and earned their trust and calm.
Click to expand...

ETA. Do you have an instructor helping you?
 
Last edited:
Yeah he is trained to voice commands he has had a couple of months off ridden work now just being lunging however I rode him today round the farm just see what he's like now he's maturing had a small trot round the lake and he p****** off with me and only stopped to spook at a fence Lol will look into a kineton noseband rather than change bit thanks :)
 
CallieAndFrankie said:
Yeah he is trained to voice commands he has had a couple of months off ridden work now just being lunging however I rode him today round the farm just see what he's like now he's maturing had a small trot round the lake and he p****** off with me and only stopped to spook at a fence Lol will look into a kineton noseband rather than change bit thanks :)
Click to expand...

He's still very young, I personally wouldn't want to be fiddling around with his mouth. To me it sounds like he would benefit from going back to basics, lots of groundwork and long reining to get his confidence up :)
 
Its not his confidence that's the issue he hacks out alone schools nicely has just began walking and gentle lungeing over poles he has been on 2 funrides for the experience to see how he reacted and he didn't bat an eyelid he has also been to two shows. Its just that now he's maturing his learning his own strength and becoming bolshy to ride I'm hoping to nip this in the bud hence asking bit advice :)
 
What did he do when he tanked off... was his head in the clouds, or on the floor?

Is he evading the bit by raising the head, crossing his jaw, leaning on your hands, snatching reins etc?

at the end of the day- IF you are needing to haul on the reins/saw etc to try and stop being tanked off with, then i believe that using a different bit ( I dislike the term stronger, as this is subjective to the rider) may be a better option than sticking with a "softer" bit. I ride my mare in a happy mouth pelham, (off the snaffle rein 90% of the time) but the curb rein is there for a reminder when I need it.
 
His was leaning on the bit and he lowered his head have notice on the lunge when he starts getting lazy or bored he drops his head to the floor and goes down a pace :)
 
He's done a lot for a young horse. I would go back to basics, get him listening to voice commands and listening to light rein aids (even if you are sticking to walking and halting in the school). Then you can end on a good note and give him some time off from ridden work to mature.
 
He is having time off he is currently turned away just literally walked and trotted him round the farm and fishing pool today to assess how he's doing and what problems are arising so I can nip it in the bud as I have already said that's the whole point of this post because I don't know what to do.
 
Opposite issue from the one I had then!

In this case I would steer clear of any leverage/poll pressure. Maybe look into a waterford snaffle? This should help stop him taking hold of the bit and leaning.

Also worth considering shortening sessions with him, as he is still young, and may be getting tired/bored?

eta re waterford; very important NEVER to saw your hands using this bit, and you should buy a size larger than you would normaly
 
Last edited:
CallieAndFrankie said:
He is having time off he is currently turned away just literally walked and trotted him round the farm and fishing pool today to assess how he's doing and what problems are arising so I can nip it in the bud as I have already said that's the whole point of this post because I don't know what to do.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how you can expect no problems if you just bought him in, rode him and 'tested' him to see how he was doing while he's turned away... Once he's mature and in Consistent work, then reassess.
 
Yano what that's it. Its up to you how you deal with your horse this his how I deal with mine. FYI he is in consistent work he's lunged/loose schooled 4 times a week please don't write back as I was simpy asking for advice not a 'telling off '
 
I dont think there is a happy mouth version...but I may be wrong...

on the subject of bits though, if you were against the waterford (being metal) the only other bit i coulld think of would be a true running gag- NOT dutch gag, as this creates poll pressure, and is a head lowering tool! you would need to use 2 reins with it though, and it should be a last last resort bearing in mind he is VERY young, and fresh!!
 
CallieAndFrankie said:
Yano what that's it. Its up to you how you deal with your horse this his how I deal with mine. FYI he is in consistent work he's lunged/loose schooled 4 times a week please don't write back as I was simpy asking for advice not a 'telling off '
Click to expand...

I'm not telling off, I'm trying to understand as you are inconsistent in your replies, one minute he's turned away, one minute he's being ridden, one minute he's in consistent work.. It's just confusing.. Just personally it sounds like he hasn't had anytime to just be a horse and mature.
 
I think Immy was only trying to get the situation straight in their head before suggesting anything to you, I find if someone annoys you, ignoring them is best rather than kicking off. It puts people new to the thread off suggesting things.

I have never started a youngster in anything but a snaffle.
I spend a lot of time when the horse is backed just walking and stopping, on a lead rein at first as the horse is accustomed to ground signals already. So essentially it's walk, stop, walk, stop-all with voice commands so the voice can be used in conjunction with leg and rein aids on the lead rein and then the horse knows what is expected when the rein is removed.

I actually never rode in anything but a snaffle for the first 12 or 13 years I rode and I think this is why I never considered anything else, but I could have been tempted. The horses range from a little Shetland all the way up to a horse caught wild from the hills and sold off at auction, all dealt with the same way
 
I have never started a youngster in anything but a snaffle.
I spend a lot of time when the horse is backed just walking and stopping, on a lead rein at first as the horse is accustomed to ground signals already. So essentially it's walk, stop, walk, stop-all with voice commands so the voice can be used in conjunction with leg and rein aids on the lead rein and then the horse knows what is expected when the rein is removed.

This is exactly how he was started but he already gets it he is off lead reing goes of my leg and hand all the basics are there and so is the energy but I would like it to be more controlled ie not tanking off in trot nd stopping when he wants I don't want to use anythink other than a happy mouth as he is fine in this I'm light handed when I ride just want to know which next happy mouth to get as the next one up which will give me more brakes and control :)
 
CallieAndFrankie said:
Like I sed I'm nt after advice of how I look after my horse just on bitting really
Click to expand...

Like I said, it would be helpful to know what you are doing with him right now to understand and then advise :) I'm not trying to make digs, just trying to make head or tail of it all. Have you considered that maybe the problems you are having could be saddle issues? At 3 and half years old he will be changing shape a lot so something to possibly think about?
 
Yep considered saddle first, checked it myself then had a fitter out in case I needed to part ex for a new saddle and the saddler said his saddle is a perfect fit and to re assess when he starts proper ridden work when he reaches 4. He is turned away atm. How ever he is brought in every day and brushed and somedays we work on our groundwork/ lungeing as we do in hand showing good groundwork is important as I refuse to let him become a field ornament and become rude and bargy from little handling which is what he was like when I got him he has come on leaps and bounds but just want to address this minor setback :)
 
That's good about the saddle :) tbh I don't know what to suggest bit wise as personally I wouldn't change bits, I would just work on the problem I.e lots and lots of transitions, trying to avoid opportunities for him to tank until out of the habit, set him up for success etc.. Have you considered bitless at all?
 
If he's happy in the happy mouth (haha, didn't sound that way in my head!!) then as you say, stick to that range as there'll still be a degree of familiarity in that for him.

Like I mentioned, I don't have much experience in anything other than a snaffle, but with one horse, I had to hack him out with Murphy at first. 1. They were best friends and he couldn't bear to be away from him and 2. Murphy is so bombproof that the horse would tend not to spook with him nearby, even when a train flew by. A calming influence. Maybe that would help if he has a close horse friend and another rider you trust to go out with.
 
CallieAndFrankie said:
The only problem is I'm the only one on the yard that rides as the others are all out of work or being brought back into work gently so no1 to hack out with :(
Click to expand...

As yours is turned away aswell then maybe others will be back in work by the time he's being brought back full time? :) .. Could you hack out in hand at all to get him out but avoid any tanking? I know that bitless isn't suitable for showing however I've found that if horses have issues, if they respond well to bitless, then a lot of them can be corrected using bitless and then when reintroduced to the bit they go far better. Just food for thought :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top