Which do use - Chambon, Pessoa or Side Reins ?

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was not offended by your comment btw just felt i needed to clarify the fact that i didnt constantly use these things.

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My comment wasn't aimed at you, or anyone in particular. I just feel too many people use 'gadgets' without thinking why, what the horse will do, what the horse should be doing, etc.
I had no intention to offend anyone.
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I use the Pessoa and find it very good for building up backside and back on horsie who had been sick and lost it all and also was forehand heavy, also as hes 17 hands and we have no manege it solved his previous trick of just tanking off with the lunge line and then treading on it and hurting his shoulder :-( It has been very useful. I dont have it very tight tho, just a slight contact which disappears if he works a little behind.

I also use long reining (2 lunge lines) a lot with both horses.
 
Surely there is no greater way to get your horse super light in the hand than by putting a pessao on an socking it in the gob every time it engages it's hind legs?

The pessoa surely teach the horse that back legs engaged means full force (of horse, not tiny person!) jabbing at (probably single jointed) bit in mouth. I think I'd rather use draw reins over a pessoa, at least then you can pick em up and put em down as you see fit. The pessoa is constantly there, never misses a trick, the legs engages the mouth gets jabbed, utter nonsense I say!

Another option would be to atually ride the horse, if you can be bothered riding then give your horse a day off too
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my girl doesn't lunge (I mean really just doesn't lunge stand there looking at you with a face of 'Well you're doing sweet FA so why should I?') and I've come to terms wtih the fact that I ride or she gets time off, it's simple and I am a far fitter rider than most of the lazy lungers at my yard.
 
Believe me there are many many times I would far rather ride my horse than lunge him but in his case his work on the lunge is what keeps his back strong and supple enough to ride. Therefore I have to incorporate a degree of lunging into his work.
There are lots of reasons why people lunge horses (with or without pessoas, chambons, side reins etc) and most of them are nothing to do with being lazy!
 
I don't understand how lunging can strengthen a horse's back better than riding it correctly? IMO If you sit on the horse you should be able to feel that the horse is using it's back correctly and therefore building the correct muscles. IMO standing on the ground it is almost impossible to be sure the horse is balanced, working through it's back evenly and correctly and it not in an discomfort.

I think lunging can cause far more problems than it can fix
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and you may not be a lazy lunger but the people at my yard are, they are self confesseed lazy lungers, I quote 'I can't be assed riding tonight, I'm just going to lunge!'
 
Because it allows them to work the back muscles without carrying the weight of a rider. If the muscles aren't able to support weight, as was the case with my horse last year, you can sit as correctly as you like, but the horse will be in discofort or pain and won't be able to build muscle.
I won't bore you with the whole saga, but my horse had problems on and off for a long time and this was the treatment recommended by a vet who is one of the leading back specialists in the country. I followed his advice to the letter and it has worked so I have to disagree with you on this one
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As for lazy lungers - I never understand why someone would lunge because they can't be bothered riding. It takes as long to faff around with the lunge gear that you might as well have the fun of riding. That was always my point of view until last year - now I think maybe I should've been lunging more often!
 
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If the muscles aren't able to support weight, as was the case with my horse last year, you can sit as correctly as you like, but the horse will be in discofort or pain and won't be able to build muscle.


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So in this situation clearly you have to lunge as the horse cannot carry a rider, however, the people on here that are talking about lunging are lungin healthy horses that are ridden regularly. I should have been more clear, what I wanted to know is what lunging could do for a healthy horse that can be ridden that riding alone cannot do? I genuinely want to know what it can do that riding can't other than give the rider a day off
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I guess everyone has their own reasons for lunging.
With mine it does help him keep his muscle and I notice a difference if I don't do it. So for me its mainly because I have to, and often I would rather be riding. However I do like to watch him from the ground sometimes as it gives a different perspective to riding.
 
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If the muscles aren't able to support weight, as was the case with my horse last year, you can sit as correctly as you like, but the horse will be in discofort or pain and won't be able to build muscle.


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So in this situation clearly you have to lunge as the horse cannot carry a rider, however, the people on here that are talking about lunging are lungin healthy horses that are ridden regularly. I should have been more clear, what I wanted to know is what lunging could do for a healthy horse that can be ridden that riding alone cannot do? I genuinely want to know what it can do that riding can't other than give the rider a day off
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Well, lunging is about twice the work of riding, as the horse is constantly going on a circle. This means where you could normally ride the horse for 40mins, you could exercise it similarly by lunging for 20 mins. It also means that you have to be careful you don't overdo lunging as it can adversely affect the horse's joints.
Lunging can allow you to view your horse's movement - you can see how engaged it is behind, whether it is tracking up, which joints it flexes more, which toe it drags, how stiff it is to one side.
You can also see whether it is using its back muscles properly, whether it can work quietly in an outline by itself, can work out for itself what contact is, etc.
Lunging is useful, as is riding, IMO
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Clearly we have differing opinions, I don't think how a horse behaves on the lunge is a true reflection of how it behaves under saddle.

I've seen so many horses that will point blank refuse to lower their head be put on the lunge with gadgets like the pessoa, the harbridge, side reins etc and forced to do something they would never do under saddle. In my opinion the majority of people like to see the pony do pretty circles with it's head down, chase it enough with a whip and it'll track up too. Then they get on the horse jams it's head back in the air and the back legs stop working and the rider thinks they are riding the same pretty pony they lunged the other day.

If you need an opinion on how your horse works get an instructor to look at it, video yourself or let someone else ride your horse I really don't believe getting a picture of your horse is a good reason to lunge.
 
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Clearly we have differing opinions, I don't think how a horse behaves on the lunge is a true reflection of how it behaves under saddle.

I've seen so many horses that will point blank refuse to lower their head be put on the lunge with gadgets like the pessoa, the harbridge, side reins etc and forced to do something they would never do under saddle. In my opinion the majority of people like to see the pony do pretty circles with it's head down, chase it enough with a whip and it'll track up too. Then they get on the horse jams it's head back in the air and the back legs stop working and the rider thinks they are riding the same pretty pony they lunged the other day.

If you need an opinion on how your horse works get an instructor to look at it, video yourself or let someone else ride your horse I really don't believe getting a picture of your horse is a good reason to lunge.

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Perhaps I didn't explain very clearly.
I don't think that the aim of lunging, or of riding should be to get the horse to 'lower its head' - I prefer to think less of the head and neck, and more of the engagement behind - so whether the horse is tracking up does matter, in my opinion. When the horse engages his hind end, he should carry more weight actively behind, and step further under himself to do so (loosely described as tracking up in my post, should maybe have been 'overtracking' but it depends on conformation).
The lunge whip is used to replace your legs - chasing with legs or whips is obviously undesirable, as it would ruin the rhythm of the horse's work. Horses should not be running scared of the lunge whip, nor your leg, they should, however, react to both.
Circle work is used, under saddle, and on the lunge, to encourage the horse to engage its inside hind, and hopefully, to increase suppleness. It could be said that for a stiff, or weak horse, it is easier for them to build the correct muscles (topline and abdominals) without the weight of the rider.
Instructors also, I believe, sometimes recommend lunging. And in my experience of instructors many use lunge work and other forms of ground work, to improve their horses' way of going.
I have heard that some classical dressage training establishments also use ground work to teach various movements, so it must have some value, even if my explanations are not very good.
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